They've diluted the Pentium brand to the point that it is now synonymous with celeron, which itself is synonymous with cheap and underperforming.
Kinda like what AMD did with the FX brand
They've diluted the Pentium brand to the point that it is now synonymous with celeron, which itself is synonymous with cheap and underperforming.
Kinda like what AMD did with the FX brand
Problem with Ultrabooks is that they are still made by a PC industry that overall sucks in support. Regardless of how you feel about Apple, you buy a Macbook Air or something and it has issues, you take it to an Apple store and they actually fix the thing or help you with your problem. Even if you don't have issues with your Apple stuff, the "idea" that you have a good post-sale support structure in place is worth something. You buy a $1300 Acer, Toshiba, whatever-brand Ultrabook and it screws up, try getting support from anyone without an Indian accent who actually seems to give a crap about your problem... The only way to make crappy post-sale support palatable is cheap upfront pricing, which the Ultrabooks "don't" have.
I expect to speak to "bob-from-kansas-with-a-nonunderstandeable-Indian-accent" when I buy a $400 laptop, the fact that I still have to speak to "bob-from-kansas-with-a-nonunderstandeable-Indian-accent" when I buy a $1300 Ultrabook is unforgiveable..
Intel can enforce the "specs" all they want, but they can't enforce the quality of post-sale support, and dollar for dollar, Apple's post-sale support is better than the rest. Powerful "specs" don't make for "long-term" happy and satisfied customers.
I expect to speak to "bob-from-kansas-with-a-nonunderstandeable-Indian-accent" when I buy a $400 laptop, the fact that I still have to speak to "bob-from-kansas-with-a-nonunderstandeable-Indian-accent" when I buy a $1300 Ultrabook is unforgiveable..
Intel can enforce the "specs" all they want, but they can't enforce the quality of post-sale support, and dollar for dollar, Apple's post-sale support is better than the rest. Powerful "specs" don't make for "long-term" happy and satisfied customers.
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
- 20,736
- 1,379
- 126
Another great point.
Ultrabooks are just too pricey to be a mass market product, and that's the final word. PCs will never have the cult following that Apple products enjoy, so the market for said products will be determined purely by $/feature for those who actually want those products. And the market for people who are willing to pay TWICE the price of an equivalent or better notebook just to have it a little bit thinner isn't really all that big. Even less when you consider that more and more people are moving to tablets for travel devices, or have such an awesome phone (iP6/GS3) that they don't feel the need for a notebook at all any more.
CHADBOGA
Platinum Member
- Mar 31, 2009
- 2,135
- 833
- 136
The point is that it isn't, and we're flooded with crappy displays on overpriced notebooks with no interesting features other than "thin." It's moving towards higher res displays anyway purely because Apple's doing it and if the OEMs want to increase their sales figures they'll have to. Having Intel push that as a standard would only mean following the same trend rather than setting itself apart by offering something different.
For example
For hundreds of dollars less I got an IPS screen, double the battery life, a faster processor, better build quality, equal weight and a better keyboard.
What does that Ultrabook have that my X220 doesn't? I was in the same position as far as buying a laptop went, and nearly picked up an Ultrabook -- I was looking at the Zenbook at the time. I decided against it because at that price I could pick up my current laptop, a 256GB SSD and a Google Nexus 7. What would I be losing? Well, on that awesome display, but that's it. There's no other redeeming feature in that Zenbook that other laptops don't have other than that display. Most Ultrabooks are using crappier TN panels, so it's an even easier choice. Expensive product that offers absolutely nothing special but has a higher price tag? Pass.
Those are chipset features not specific to Ultrabooks, meaning I'll get the same in a regular laptop. That's the entire problem here: Why choose an Ultrabook over a laptop at half the price? Why choose an Ultrabook at an equal price with a laptop if it can't even offer better battery life and lower weight?
-- Just to clarify, those are the current standards. Others that aren't on that slide include the suggested 13.3" size, ~3lbs in weight and the OEM-suggested metallic shell. Intel tried to push through a specially designed plastic that was just as durable but cost less but the OEMs weren't having it and the idea died before it even started.
I dont know the price you paid but a search showed around 1200 for the x220,I paid 1167 shipped with taxes and that included a free xbox 360.
I also upgraded the cpu to the i7 ivybridge and the build qulity of the hp is better than the x220 my friend,its all made out of METAL not plastic and the screen is an inch bigger and has the same res as your ips display(on a side note the display on the hp looks fantastic)The hp for that price also included a ssd drive and it has an amazing backlit keyboard that is just the right size to use comfortably.
I also got a better gpu than you did(hd3000 vs4000)and I get about 8 hours on a single charge and it weighs the same as yours but is way thinner and made out of nice shinny aluminum.
hate much?
NTMBK
Lifer
- Nov 14, 2011
- 10,526
- 6,051
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LOL Bob gets around. He can be found in major Australian cities too.
I thought he lived next to Loch Big Ben?!
taltamir
Lifer
- Mar 21, 2004
- 13,576
- 6
- 76
intel sold -200%?
If expectation were to sell 10 million units. Then 300% lower would be selling -20 million units.
AFAIk there is no fixed spec and personally I don't care how it is called as long as it is light weight and sure smaller than 15.6. 13.3 is max IMHO.
Examples? Were do you actually see a model is classified as Ultrabook? Yes there are laptop with an i7 that are small and light and have long battery life (eg X220) but that costs about double compared to an average ultrabook. At least here were I live.
Non-ultra books are in general heavier and have slower disks. And again comparing to a X220 is not fair at all.
If you buy an ultra book and game on it I think you misunderstood something. I mean you would also never buy a tablet and use it for software development and then claim the screen is to small and touch keyboard sucks?
As said, it's about half the price an X220 is assuming both have same disk type. You can't compare an ultra book with 256 gb ssd to an X220 with a standard 320 gb hdd.
Your lucky. My X220 was $1300 and only due to student rebate. Else it would be over $2000 here. (i7 cpu, last fall). Of course with rebate it was a no brainer but I would never pay the full price for it...especially knowing how much (or little) it costs in US...
Apple made the mistake in the other direction. The higher resolution displays are purely a marketing stunt because the hardware present can in no way drive them at their native resolution at anything other than a desktop.
It's important to match your display with your graphics capability. Higher resolution isn't always good with LCDs because anything other than 1, .5, .25, .125, of your native resolution looks like trash.
Your looking for logic where none exists. Only hyperbole exists in this particular world. Hyperbole, a burning hate for intel, and a massive stiffy for AMD.
Then pick an X230. The going price a week ago was ~$750 with roughly the same specs. And don't go comparing an HP anything to a ThinkPad in quality. Furthermore, just because it's metal doesn't mean it's higher quality. And the "plastic" that encases my X220 is actually a magnesium roll cage.
The X220 is just one example that's familiar to me, but there are other laptops out there that share many of the same qualities -- ffr, these are called ultraportables. Secondly, I can buy a better SSD for much cheaper than what HP is charging you and I can install it without voiding the warranty. In fact, it has an easy access hot swap HDD bay that makes it even easier.
For the other poster that says the X230/x220 costs $1500: you're nuts. They cost $660 new with the base i3 Ivy Bridge. You can get all of the goodies, including an i5 Ivy for just under $800. A little unfair to take the highest price in only your particular area and compare it to the lowest possible price of an Ultrabook, isn't it?
$1167? I hope you got yourself a nice SSD. Because I got my x220 for less than that... a year ago.
You do realise that the x220 is also made out of metal that just happens to be lighter and stronger? The only part that's plastic is the palmrest. See TheVerge for their opinion of the build quality of the Spectre XT.
Same res, but inferior tech? I don't understand where you're going with this. I certainly wouldn't brag about an inferior screen... It is bigger though.
Oh good, you didn't get completely ripped off. (I jest! I jest!) But more seriously, the x230 (the current gen X220) has the best keyboard in the business. And it's backlit.
Except that the screen bezel is actually made of plastic.
And has worse build quality.
And has cheap hinges.
And has a crappy screen.
And only lasts ~5.5 hours on battery contrary to what HP claims.
And has a slower processor.
And doesn't have mSATA + 2.5" SATA for dual drives, no ethernet, no extended battery, no docking slot, no matte screen, no Trackpoint and a worse keyboard.
And compared to the X230 (the x220 was released a year and a half ago), a slower GPU due to single channel ram.
And can't support 16 GB ram.
And costs more money (even taking into account that it cost me twice as much to upgrade to an SSD last year; $300 for 160gb)
Source: Engadget, Notebookcheck, TheVerge
The Spectre XT happens to be thinner, lighter, and... well, more expensive. And it looks better. I guess it has a much better trackpad. If those 4 factors trump the above, by all means go for it.
Ultrabooks have their place. Most people do not need any of the x220/x230 features I said above (Don't need the extra ram, processing power, dual drives, docking station, slice battery), or wouldn't notice if someone didn't tell them, even though the features are useful to them (IPS screen, best keyboard in the laptop space, dual channel ram, steel hinges, magnesium roll cage). The real advantage the X220/X230 has over any ultrabook, as far as the vast majority of consumers are trying to decide, is that the X220 has more battery life (up to 300% longer), matte screen and (this part is IMO) has a trackpoint.
Pelov, I know you love your X220 (and I love mine too) but as far as Ultrabook vs x220, for the vast majority of ppl it comes down to battery life (+x220) vs form factor (+ultrabook), weight (+ultrabook*) and looks (+ultrabook).
*Your typical ultrabook of the same size is ~3 lbs. The x220/x230 is actually 3.5 lbs in a standard config, and ~4lbs in an extended battery config.
Ouch, I feel for you. My x220, with a 160 GB Intel ssd and i5, cost me $1000. i7 would have added an extra $140. I'm in Canada though, not the US.
3.3lbs with the 6-cell and a bit more with the 9-cell.
People don't buy Ultrabooks because they're lighter. They're not. A majority of them are well over that 3lbs suggested limit and are in the X220/X230 range. Just browse Newegg and you'll see. Ultrabooks don't have any special features that laptops lack. The only reason people buy them is because they look nicer.
-- the reason it looks like plastic is because the magnesium is coated in a rubber so that when you hold it it doesn't slip out of your hand. I've taken it apart 3 times since I've bought it already. I should upload pics
err, the keyboard is plastic as well, but it's only plastic on top of the metallic frame beneath it. It's also spill proof.
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sm625
Diamond Member
- May 6, 2011
- 8,172
- 137
- 106
Ultrabooks are like those AllInOne machines that take a $267 notebook strapped to the back of a $69 lcd and charge you $799 for the pleasure. It is sadistically overpriced gouging that is only too obvious.
It's just like how Dell charges $129 for a 2nd stick of RAM, or $259 for a 128GB SSD. Does it matter that a 128GB SSD only costs $60 more than a HDD? Not to them it dont.
It's just like how Dell charges $129 for a 2nd stick of RAM, or $259 for a 128GB SSD. Does it matter that a 128GB SSD only costs $60 more than a HDD? Not to them it dont.
The x220 is 1799 on newegg right now and it dosnt even come with a ssd drive and it has a sandy bridge I5
Are we talking about the same laptop here?
I paid 1167 with 30 for shipping and like 80 for taxes and it came out to 1167 and I also jumped on the free xbox 360 deal they were running and that was with an I7 ivy not the i5 sandy and also a 128gb ssd drive.
the x230 with an i7 ivy is anywhere from $2600-3000 on newegg and the 3000 version comes with a 180gb ssd.
Are we talking about the same laptop here?
I paid 1167 with 30 for shipping and like 80 for taxes and it came out to 1167 and I also jumped on the free xbox 360 deal they were running and that was with an I7 ivy not the i5 sandy and also a 128gb ssd drive.
the x230 with an i7 ivy is anywhere from $2600-3000 on newegg and the 3000 version comes with a 180gb ssd.
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Don't think you can find those sweet deal again
. Here is what I see on amazon.comhttp://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...%3Ax230+laptop
Through Lenovo it was 662.38 just over the weekend. You never buy ThinkPads over retailers. Lenovo sells these by the thousands and offers bulk discounts, great warranties (in the US the $70 dollar same-day warranty is covered by IBM). Fully spec'd with an i7 35W, IPS screen, backlit keyboard and 9-cell battery it still came out to under a grand.
-- Their refurbs are done here in South Carolina and they come out pretty much new unless it says dent & scratch. The refurbs also carry a standard 1-year warranty. It's the same place you buy last year's models. In the case of the X220 and X230, the X220 lacks the backlit keyboard and Ivy graphics, neither of which I cared for so I opted to go with the X220.
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can you please build one with an I7 ivy with hyperthreading and a 128gb ssd that is anywhere near your pricing and I got my laptop the day it came out on hp.com not on a fire sale when they are trying to dump them when the new model is about to come out.
lets see a x230 for 600 bucks with an I7 and ssd under the hood for anywhere near the price you paid.
I mean you can buy last years hps beats editions that are considered ultrabooks for under 600 now but they are basically giving those away and you can even use 30% coupon codes on most of them also.
Its funny how you compare your laptop to mine when I paid full retail the day it came out to yours that you just bought over the weekend on a crazzy fire sale/refurbrished and using that as a basis on comparing it to a brand new ivybridge ultra book.
now just for a second ask yourself witch laptop you would get if you had to pay full retail for each model.I bet you would pick the spectre xt over it and save yourself 1100 bucks doing it.
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Your i7 is actually a slightly lower power i5 35W. The i7 in the X230 is a 35W CPU that doesn't suffer from the persistent lengthy load throttling that current ivy ULVs have (you may want to read Jarred's article regarding throttling and Ultrabooks on Anandtech). So if we were to build an equivalent laptop it would use an i5 35W Ivy, not an i7, though like I said, the i7 with backlit keyboard, 9-cell battery, IPS screen and 2-year same day warranty came out to under a grand. You also have the option of putting whichever SSD you want into the hot swap bay or even mSATA slot. The ram isn't soldered either. This is the newest model and it was ~$900. Add an SSD, mSATA even, and you're at a grand for a laptop that's more powerful, has twice the battery life, weighs the same and it has a better screen.
Just to give you an idea of the battery life --
This is Ubuntu 12.04LTS with Unity shell. I get roughly 10-11 hours of web surfing with Pandora playing. The laptop has already been on for approximately 2 hours and the battery isn't at 100% capacity out-of-the-box fresh, somewhere around 98%.
You won't find that on an Ultrabook. The only Ultrabooks that offer battery life that's even still 30% away are the 15" Samsung 9-series laptops which go for over $1200-1300. The smaller the model and thinner the laptop (read Ultrabook), the lower the battery life.
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ya ok bud and does that i5 have hyperthreading?your ram is one dimm and single channel,the xt is running dual channel and the i7 is clocking higher and also came with a ssd drive.
build a x230 with an ssd and the same cpu and see how much its costs
your trying to push your laptop that fits your needs to others that are perfectly happy with the looks and feel and also get enough battery life for there type of use,like I said I get about 6-8 hours on a charge with the way I use my hp.Guess what? there is a market for the ultrabook and it fits my needs perfectly,I will prolly never build another pc again and in 2 years will buy an haswell based ultra and keep that for a very long time as I dont think I would ever need anymore power out of it.
I dont bench test it playing video and see how it does and after the first few cycles the battery actually got better.
I would take the hp over your laptop just in style and looks alone bro and the free xbox I got is just an extra piece of cake op top.
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How can we consumer not buying from retailers? we are not buy them buy the thousand? you can't use a one time sale to quote the frice of a product. When you compare two products price, they have to be available to the general public. also you can't compare used itme with brand new items price.
You can't build it with the same CPU because the X230 actually has a better CPU. Also, all core iX models have hyperthreading. The core i7 turbos to a much higher clock speed than the i7 ULV (your processor) because it has a higher TDP threshold.
And I just told you, I built one on their site over the weekend just out of curiosity and it came out to well under a grand for better components.
Just because you like your Ultrabook because it looks nice doesn't make it a better laptop, it only means that you like it because it looks prettier.
Again, not surprising given how much you paid for you overpaid for your Spectre XT.
These aren't volume discounts I'm quoting. These are the exact prices via the Lenovo website. I get their emails several times a week. Sign up to the Lenovo Barnes & Noble link and you too will get them. When buying from retailers like Amazon and Newegg, they spike up the price tremendously. For the most part, Lenovo ThinkPads are sold directly from Lenovo's own website and they actually limit the supply of their laptops to retailers like Newegg and Amazon, which is why the prices are high. The same doesn't go for their Ultrabooks and IdeaPad lines which can be bought from either place for roughly the same price.
If you want a hint, always sign up to the manufacturer's website. They'll almost always offer you better deals. The only exceptions are those lacking a direct distribution channel like Asus and Acer.
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I just built the closest laptop to the specs I got in my hp and its almost 1500 bucks and its with single channel 4gb not dual.
its using a 128ssd and has a 14in 1366 screen and an i7 ivy.
thanks Ill pass this laptop would come out to 1607 with tax
Hp is running a sale right now and you can get the spectre xt14 in with 1600x display and 128ssd for 1149 with using this coupon code NB93012.Thats an extra 250 off with that code and you might be able to call them and try to get the free xbox 360 with it also.
its using a 128ssd and has a 14in 1366 screen and an i7 ivy.
thanks Ill pass this laptop would come out to 1607 with tax
Hp is running a sale right now and you can get the spectre xt14 in with 1600x display and 128ssd for 1149 with using this coupon code NB93012.Thats an extra 250 off with that code and you might be able to call them and try to get the free xbox 360 with it also.
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happysmiles
Senior member
- May 1, 2012
- 340
- 0
- 0
Intel did say they discovered cheaper yet higher quality materials for ultrabooks and will share it with their partners.
But in reality, once tablets are absolutely pwning laptops thats when we will see decent prices
But in reality, once tablets are absolutely pwning laptops thats when we will see decent prices
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