A "why wouldn't I?" build thread

[jme5343]

EDIT: Ahhh heck, after checking the "Can you RUN it" site, it looks like I could do BF3 with only a video card upgrade. I suppose that's probably a decent suggestion. So now this thread is "Which video card should I buy?" END EDIT, LOL.




Why wouldn't I just buy this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883157351

instead of building one myself?

All I want is a reliable desktop and some moderate game play - BF3 / Portal are the extent of what I intend to play.

Right now I have an older shuttle system (sg31g2) with a core 2 quad 6700 and 4gb ram - not enough to do BF3 acct no video card. I intend to move this to the garage as a media pc - basically just music. I know it's overkill.

Also, to throw another wrench into the mix, I do already have an ASUS P8Z68 mb and have a 60gb SSD sitting here. I don't, however, have another valid W7 license. So, even with these parts, I don't feel like I can do as well as the all in one HP system, esp given that it comes with the monitor.

 

[lehtv]

The PC you linked has an 8-threaded processor paired with a weak graphics card, when a good value gaming PC would have a high performance per core processor up to 4 threads paired with a strong graphics card.

The other reasons not to buy this PC include:
1) it's a refurb so no real warranty
2) case unlikely to have good airflow and any cable management, designed for office use; also plasticky so not very sturdy
3) power supply not going to be very good, you would most likely have to upgrade the PSU if you upgraded the graphics card (which you should if you wanted a proper gaming rig)
4) 5400RPM hard disk not very good for storing games on
5) motherboard is low end and last generation and does not support USB 3.0 and SATA 6gb/s, features you can find on a $60 B75 board
6) motherboard has only two DIMM slots, not really a problem but a downside anyway, compared to a custom build

Also, to throw another wrench into the mix, I do already have an ASUS P8Z68 mb and have a 60gb SSD sitting here. I don't, however, have another valid W7 license. So, even with these parts, I don't feel like I can do as well as the all in one HP system, esp given that it comes with the monitor.

That's easy, all you have to do is pick any proper gaming graphics card (>$120) and any modern Intel CPU above $60 you have a better gaming performance than the HP refurb. Just say the word and I'll pick the parts . Though I wouldn't mind if you answered a couple of questions.

Also, what is your current monitor? Would it be better to use that as your gaming monitor and buy a cheapo one for the media PC?

 

[Blain]

Do it, I dare you.

 

[jme5343]

That's easy, all you have to do is pick any proper gaming graphics card (>$120) and any modern Intel CPU above $60 you have a better gaming performance than the HP refurb. Just say the word and I'll pick the parts . Though I wouldn't mind if you answered a couple of questions.

Also, what is your current monitor? Would it be better to use that as your gaming monitor and buy a cheapo one for the media PC?

Thank you lehtv, all good points. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
As for the questions:

Using for desktop / light gaming
Budget is $850
Buying from US
No preferences, but already have an 1155 Motherboard
Would use current Asus P8Z68-VLX MB and 60GB SSD as OS drive w/ intel management. Also using an older Dell 1908 FP.
No overclocking
Don't really care about resolution - agin, using a Dell 1908FP.
Will need a copy of Windows 7

I know you're probably laughing, but I'm thinking that I could just buy a HD6570 to throw into this shuttle and that will get me my BF3 fix. Again, not a hard core gamer AT ALL. As for the garage PC I referenced earlier, I have an older setup with MSI MB, intel chip and 4GB ram that I could use out there.

 

[lehtv]

EDIT: Ahhh heck, after checking the "Can you RUN it" site, it looks like I could do BF3 with only a video card upgrade. I suppose that's probably a decent suggestion. So now this thread is "Which video card should I buy?" END EDIT, LOL.

At least a 7850 2GB is my minimum recommendation for high settings @1920x1080 in BF3. If you're OK with low settings, a 6850 1GB would be just fast enough. Such a video card would cost you between $120 and $200.

Doing some research, I really can't find any information about the power supply in this refurb. You would most likely have to buy a new power supply to support a higher powered graphics card. I'm not sure if it even has any PCIe power connectors. This would add around $30-50 to the cost of the PC.

So essentially this would become a $1000+ build including a monitor and a copy of Windows. Tthat makes it even easier to do better with custom and new (read: non-refurb) components. The fact that you already own a motherboard makes the custom build an even better option.

I know you're probably laughing, but I'm thinking that I could just buy a HD6570 to throw into this shuttle and that will get me my BF3 fix

Not really, 6570 isn't fast enough to run BF3 smoothly. 6850 or 7770 at minimum. What's the PSU in your Shuttle? Edit On your resolution (1280x1024), 6770 or a 7750 should be enough

Don't really care about resolution - agin, using a Dell 1908FP.

OK. If you bought a new PC for gaming, this monitor would have to go to the media center. You'd like gaming on a 23" 1080p monitor better, I can assure you

 

[jme5343]

Not really, 6570 isn't fast enough to run BF3 smoothly. 6850 or 7770 at minimum. What's the PSU in your Shuttle?

That's part of my problem, it's only a 250w PSU. I took my "inspiration" from this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtH4aRVBaM4

Despite already owning BF3, both portals and other games, I hardly ever play them. I hope to do some gaming this winter when things slow down, but it's tough to justify $1000 on a pc just to play BF3. Even if I can play on the lower settings, I'm okay with that.

 

[lehtv]

That's part of my problem, it's only a 250w PSU.

OK. The 250W unit should probably handle a 7750 low profile which only uses around 60W at full load. 7750 is roughly twice as fast as 6570.

It might be a good idea to check the +12V specs of the PSU first, and maybe buy a wattmeter to see how your current setup is stressing the unit.

Despite already owning BF3, both portals and other games, I hardly ever play them. I hope to do some gaming this winter when things slow down, but it's tough to justify $1000 on a pc just to play BF3. Even if I can play on the lower settings, I'm okay with that.

If you set aside $200 for a copy of Windows and a new monitor, you could build a decent low-medium settings 1080p custom gaming PC for another $400-500. The PC would be also quite upgradeable if you wanted to get more out of it in the future.

So these are really your options. 7750 low profile for around $100, or a whole new setup for $600-700 along with a bigger resolution monitor and the possibility to use your shuttle PC for media.

 

[jme5343]

OK. The 250W unit should handle a 7750 low profile which only uses around 60W at full load. 7750 is roughly twice as fast as 6570.

If you set aside $200 for a copy of Windows and a new monitor, you could build a decent low-medium settings 1080p custom gaming PC for another $400-500. The PC would be also quite upgradeable if you wanted to get more out of it in the future.

So these are really your options. 7750 low profile for around $100, or a whole new setup for $600-700 along with a bigger resolution monitor and the possibility to use your shuttle PC for media.

Darn you lehtv, you are twisting my arm. Can I bother to ask what monitor, cpu, psu, ram and case you would recommend? I'll put some numbers together and then see what I should do

edited to add If I'm going to build one, might as well make the budget $1000... That way I only do the work once.

 

[lehtv]

edited to add If I'm going to build one, might as well make the budget $1000... That way I only do the work once.

Well if you're willing to pay $1000... We can build you a very nice gaming PC. Definitely one to satisfy even hardcore gamers which is more than you need, but at least you don't have to make any real compromises, and you won't have to upgrade as soon as you would otherwise.

Here's what I'd recommend.

OS Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit OEM $91
Monitor Asus VH236H $155 after promo ($135 after rebate) $23" 1080p

That leaves around $750 on the PC itself, not including the motherboard you already own.

CPU i5-2500K $198
Mobo ASUS P8Z68 $0 (which one is it, exactly?)
RAM Patriot 2x4GB 1600 $41 ($31 after rebate)
GPU HIS 7870 2GB $220 ($200 AR)
HDD Seagate ST1000DM003 $70 (is this enough storage space?)
SSD Intel 330 120GB $90
DVD Asus DVD-RW $20
PSU OCZ ZT 550W $60 ($40 AR)
Case Antec Three Hundred Two $50

= $995 ($925 after rebates)

This is good for high-very high settings in BF3 multiplayer at 1920x1080.

FYI, the CPU is overclockable which is good for longevity. There are of course non-overclockable i5's you could get but they're not noticeably less expensive so why not. At stock speed it is fast enough, but in several years from now when the new generations start really outperforming it and bottlenecking modern graphics cards becomes a possible problem, you can buy an aftermarket CPU cooler and overclock it from 3.3GHz to 4.0-4.5Ghz quite easily. It just takes a little reading and testing.

Regarding the SSD, install your OS, programs and a couple of games on it. It will make using the PC very responsive but has no effect on framerates. But it's definitely worth it for the improved user experience.

Also regarding the rest of the components, these aren't the only options... Plenty of other case choices, for instance. E.g. if you'd like a side window: Corsair 300R Windowed $65 AR. If you wish you can also go for a bigger monitor or a higher quality IPS panel and back down on other components.

 

[jme5343]

Mobo ASUS P8Z68 $0 (which one is it, exactly?)

HDD Seagate ST1000DM003 $70 (is this enough storage space?)

That's incredibly awesome - and I know you spent a lot of time on it, so for me to not go with this would be very rude (that's what I'm going to tell my wife, lol).

The MB is the P8Z68-VLX
The HDD is enough for now, sure. I have about 5TB in my HTPC, so I just have it on the network and keep all my movies and music there.
I already have a 60GB SSD, could I do without the 120? That would give me $90 toward something else...open to suggestions on what - different processor, more ram maybe?

I'm gonna go watch a movie with the kids and look at this a little more when they go to bed, may have a couple more dumb questions then

Thanks again!

 

[lehtv]

That's incredibly awesome - and I know you spent a lot of time on it, so for me to not go with this would be very rude (that's what I'm going to tell my wife, lol).

Oh no, you're not in any way obligated by my ramblings, I just post

Right, if you have an SSD don't buy a new one. Forgot that bit.

More CPU power or more RAM wouldn't actually have any practical benefit. If you want to spend more, you'd probably like an IPS panel better than TN even though the change from 19" 1280x1024 to 23" 1080p LED is already quite big. Dell U2312HM, only $206.50 at Amazon ($260 at newegg)

 

[DominionSeraph]

hang on, dell outlet has some pretty good codes... lemme look them up

 

[DominionSeraph]

Snag one of these for $529/$549

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...earch.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dfh&cs=22&puid=58b39ab

Apply code Z2$JF$PGCBJ53K for 20% off.

i5 for $439!

Sell the 7570 and get the 7870 that lehtv linked above for $220.

So for $660 you have your rig.
The above link may not work because I'm holding this in my cart for you so nobody else grabs it. Sending you a PM.

This is what it looks like:

 

[jme5343]

Arggh, I can only see the 8100, 8300 and 9100

 

[DominionSeraph]

Linkie no workie

Do a search for XPS 8500.

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...x?c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh&brandid=2202&fid=9179

Search by price low to high. Get ready to refresh when I release it from my cart. (say ready) Grab it immediately and put it in your cart. (you'll put in a captcha.)

(I'm F5ing this thread)

 

[jme5343]

ready!

 

[DominionSeraph]

ready!

Released!

 

[jme5343]

I think I got it.

 

[DominionSeraph]

make sure you put it all the way in your cart! past the warranties and you'll have entered a captcha

 

[jme5343]

make sure you put it all the way in your cart! past the warranties and you'll have entered a captcha

It's in there. I'm not gonna get in trouble with lehtv for buying this, am I?

 

[DominionSeraph]

Now, the downside of this is that the processor isn't overclockable. lehtv's build could overclock to 4.3-4.5GHz. But it's around $200 cheaper with the sale of unneeded components. And there's certainly nothing wrong with an Ivy Bridge i5's performance at stock speeds.

 

[lehtv]

There are probably other downsides as well

- hdd not quite as fast
- case and PSU definitely not as good quality
- does the mobo support sata 6gb/s and usb 3.0?
- what is the warranty like overall?

But you catched quite a nice deal so props to DominionSeraph

 

[jme5343]

There are probably other downsides as well

- hdd not quite as fast
- case and PSU definitely not as good quality
- does the mobo support sata 6gb/s and usb 3.0?
- what is the warranty like overall?

But you catched quite a nice deal so props to DominionSeraph

*I will still swap in my SSD and install the OS and a couple games on it.
*True, true. PSU is 460Watts, and who knows, the mb may have the stupid proprietary connector (does dell still do that?)
*It is likely only 3GB Sata, USB 3.0 is included
*One year warranty

It was $450 shipped to the house, so I think it's a good trade off of price / convenience / specs.

I do appreciate everyone's help. Now to pick up a monitor and upgrade the video card and the setup will be complete.

 

[lehtv]

1 year warranty for the whole box? That's disappointing. Perhaps worth the $200 saved though.

With custom components you would've got lifetime warranty on memory, 5-year warranty on PSU, 3-year on the motherboard, and so on.

 

[DominionSeraph]

*True, true. PSU is 460Watts, and who knows, the mb may have the stupid proprietary connector (does dell still do that?)

No. The XPS can be specced with a 7870 standard, so the PSU won't be a problem.

And it looks to have one SATA 6Gb/s port.