A Trump Insult that the Media Missed

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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I was raised as a Catholic. If I'm still a Catholic, I'm a Catholic like Camille Paglia joked "Once a Catholic, always a Catholic" in her one-on-one with William Buckley during the late '80s. So call me an Agnostic. Yet, after watching Trump, some old superstitions of mine came to the surface: I keep wondering if he isn't the Anti-Christ making a bid for the White House like some "Rosemary's Baby" sequel.

When Trump was asked about his religious affiliation -- Presbyterian, I think -- he made this remark dismissively:

"So . . . . I have my little wine; I have my little wafer . . . "

There are at least four establishment religions and probably a few more with smaller representation who regard "wine and wafer" as a "Blessed Sacrament." It isn't "little." It's big.

Did the media miss this? Did everyone else miss it? Or am I just looking for another scab to pick on the carcass of the Trump campaign -- already bleeding like a sucking chest wound?
 
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BonzaiDuck

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DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
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I think everyone recognized immediately that Trump was full of shit about being religious whatsoever. I think some people want to believe he was being honest, but deep in their hearts, they ought to know better. His wording was merely the icing on the cake - heck, it wasn't even that much.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Just a weekish ago a family member posted some FB article by some Washington DC Pastor that opined how devout Trump was. I just couldn't help but respond with how ridiculous I found the claim to be.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Is this a complaint that the Republican candidate is too far removed from religion? Go figure...
Media likely missed it as they wouldn't know what he or you are talking about.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,874
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Is this a complaint that the Republican candidate is too far removed from religion? Go figure...
Media likely missed it as they wouldn't know what he or you are talking about.

No, it's a complaint about how blatant a lie it is.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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Maybe Trump just doesn't care about rituals and tokens? He's not a Catholic, the story says it's from a non-denominational church, and I think it's more reasonable to assume that either 1) he is literally mentally retarded and received a plate full of wine glasses and/or crackers assuming it to be a donation plate or 2) he received a (nearly) empty plate and being unfamiliar with said cult rituals made a possibly decent assumption that it was a donation plate. I don't know if he's truly religious or not, but I also don't give a shit. Most Christians regularly commit all sorts of sins in contradiction to the Bible and think rituals/prayer/confession on Sunday is the easy fix. Anything that happens to any spirit we may have in any kind of afterlife is not our place to make judgment over. If Trump is intentionally trivializing the physical bread and wine as nothing more than little bits of symbolism (something I believed as a non-denominational protestant, and still believe as someone that can barely even be called religious these days), then I applaud him for doing the right thing. I'm not entirely a fan of Trump's supposed "straight talk" and know he's full of shit, but maybe rather than him being someone that says offensive shit for the sake of it, he's someone that realizes there is nothing sacred on this planet anymore, and that everything is open for mockery. If evangelicals can swallow their own bullshit and Trump's at the same time, there's no limit to how far a person is willing to tear down dogma, and only then can we see real change for the better.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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I seriously couldn't care less.

Maybe if trump was a perfect candidate and he had no know flaws, maybe then, I could muster up enough concern to care about this. However trump isn't a perfect candidate, not even close, in fact I'd feel better if his supporters nominated David duke instead, at least his bigotry isn't hidden and even duke is much more tempered compared to trump.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
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Maybe Trump just doesn't care about rituals and tokens? He's not a Catholic, the story says it's from a non-denominational church, and I think it's more reasonable to assume that either 1) he is literally mentally retarded and received a plate full of wine glasses and/or crackers assuming it to be a donation plate or 2) he received a (nearly) empty plate and being unfamiliar with said cult rituals made a possibly decent assumption that it was a donation plate. I don't know if he's truly religious or not, but I also don't give a shit. Most Christians regularly commit all sorts of sins in contradiction to the Bible and think rituals/prayer/confession on Sunday is the easy fix. Anything that happens to any spirit we may have in any kind of afterlife is not our place to make judgment over. If Trump is intentionally trivializing the physical bread and wine as nothing more than little bits of symbolism (something I believed as a non-denominational protestant, and still believe as someone that can barely even be called religious these days), then I applaud him for doing the right thing. I'm not entirely a fan of Trump's supposed "straight talk" and know he's full of shit, but maybe rather than him being someone that says offensive shit for the sake of it, he's someone that realizes there is nothing sacred on this planet anymore, and that everything is open for mockery. If evangelicals can swallow their own bullshit and Trump's at the same time, there's no limit to how far a person is willing to tear down dogma, and only then can we see real change for the better.

IMO the religiously devout should be pretty insulted a debaucherous playboy like Trump believes their allegiance is so trivially purchased. Like trying to quote his "favorite verse" or whatever from "two corinthians".
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,585
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I got dragged to a church when I was a kid and got the sacrament, it was a little wafer and a little thing of juice or wine (I don't remember)... are you taking issue with the description of the size, or is it insulting that he calls them "little?"
Either way, I remember hearing this discussed when it happened, doesn't seem like much of a thing?
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
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I think the OP is the only one that missed this insult. It was well covered when it happened.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I don't even understand how this is a thing. Yawn. Way more real dirt to talk about than this.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,889
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Somebody said "it was well-covered," but the only thing I saw was the clip of his remark.

To some, it seems obscure and trivial. I remember at the time the thing that registered with me was the cynical and dismissive tone. And frankly, from my earliest years watching the Truman inauguration to the present, I don't remember hearing or reading anything equivalent. Kennedy had to face various insinuations that his presidency would put the Vatican in the White House.

Instead, it slowly dawned on my some time after my first reaction to the Trump remark that people a lot more devout than I am would pick up on the subtle irreverence of it, or they could interpret it that way.

It's really no different than the farce of Trump speaking to suburban white voters but addressing the "black community" with his condescension and absolute cluelessness that blacks don't all live in the extreme and exaggerated situations that Trump described.

Any normal politician with any sense of it might have avoided the remark the way he made it -- unless their constituency was strictly evangelical. I'm not even sure mainstream Baptists wouldn't be sensitive to it.

But my thoughts about it don't have anything to do with my personal sense of a religious slight or insensitivity.

It's more about Trump revealing a certain cynicism and insincerity, as he's done all along except for his "Build a Wall" promise, which now seems revisited because he's backtracking on his immigration views -- trying to draw away Hispanics who -- like blacks -- are going for Trump in their ~80% of the total.

And I'm also wondering why Kasich backed away from Trump, wouldn't endorse him and wouldn't attend the convention. I would be the first to admit a possibility that Kasich wasn't even consciously thinking about that particular remark, but he -- like the rest of us -- would've heard it over . . . and over . . . . and over . . . as the news moved from one Trump and Trumpism to the next.

So it isn't about some other poster's sense of being protestant in the view that the bread and wine are only symbolic. It is more about how people would take it who never miss a Sunday and who actually fast during Lent. As for a shared belief, there are the Catholics, Anglicans and Episcopalians as well as Greek and Russian Orthodoxy.

On the extreme, I can recount my story about the old disheveled Irish-American woman -- perhaps in her late 60s and a stereotype you may have seen in something like "Boardwalk Empire" or "Studs Lonigan." She came to my desk one day with a blurred color photo of a statue of the BVM (probably in front of a church with flood-lights at night), with the story that the BVM had "appeared" in Patterson, New Jersey.

See, I can joke about this, and the forums aren't the mass electorate audience. I have only more of a right to joke about it, not much different than some say only blacks can use the "N" word. But as much as some Catholic audience might laugh at the story, no astute politician would joke about the possibility that the BVM appeared in Patterson, or the implication that the old crone had a few loose screws.

As for being a limp thread, I actually wondered where it would go with the same thought in mind -- "This is going to be a limp thread." This is post #18. I was merely making an observation -- not an issue.
 
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