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A Thoughtful NYT Mag Piece on Bernie Sanders

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Please ignore the "click bait" title and you're own predilection, on both sides, to pre-judge and react and . . . READ . . . THE . . . WHOLE . . . DAMN . . . ARTICLE.

I found it illuminating. It only increased my admiration for the man.

I must add, though, sadly, that it remains my stong opinion that the regrettable state of the general consciousness of the entire American electorate would mean a Trump re-election in any Trump-Sanders race.

But, please take the time to read this article. You can thank me later. And, yes, I do accept gift cards to major online retailers. 😉
 
Good artical, but I disagree with your assessment. The People want a Vision. Once again, Democrats are blind to that fact.
 
Please ignore the "click bait" title and you're own predilection, on both sides, to pre-judge and react and . . . READ . . . THE . . . WHOLE . . . DAMN . . . ARTICLE.

I found it illuminating. It only increased my admiration for the man.

I must add, though, sadly, that it remains my stong opinion that the regrettable state of the general consciousness of the entire American electorate would mean a Trump re-election in any Trump-Sanders race.

But, please take the time to read this article. You can thank me later. And, yes, I do accept gift cards to major online retailers. 😉


What part increased your admiration for him? I read it and other than a few details I didn’t see anything new about the guy or his campaign that I already didn’t know.

I did find the claim that the only reason for him running was because he believed he could defeat trump a little disingenuous since he’s still in the race despite being unable to turn out his “base”.
 
Good artical, but I disagree with your assessment. The People want a Vision. Once again, Democrats are blind to that fact.

Can you explain to me how the people want a vision when the candidate with the weakest vision has clobbered Bernie in a majority of races? Maybe you can explain how the democrats are blind to that fact despite the “traditional” democratic candidates doing better than the “Bernie” type candidates in 2018?

Because if you can’t articulate those facts I would say it’s not the democrats that are blind.
 
Good artical, but I disagree with your assessment. The People want a Vision. Once again, Democrats are blind to that fact.
I don't really know what the people want, but what they don't want is Bernie. Aside from that, it was pretty good article, if a bit fluffy.
 
I read this as an apology by liberals to themselves that they just couldn't keep up, a lament pointed by they themselves, outwardly at an abstraction, "the state of "American political consciousness" as if it were a thing out there and not fully internalized all along that each of as individuals just weren't up to the task of voting for the only candidate that mattered, that the Democratic Party itself is as brain dead from fear as conservatives are.

Oh me oh my, America, not me personally, wasn't ready for Sanders.

I mean, after all, like one black union voter said in the piece something like 'I had to work for my socialized medicine, why would I want somebody else to get it free.

The great contribution that Capitalist American Democracy has done for the human race is to build a whole nation whose people have one distinguishing trait. They think first and foremost of themselves. Have you tried to get hand sanitizer or Clorox wipes or toilet paper recently?

Listen, in the distance, do you hear the hogs being called?
 
Can you explain to me how the people want a vision when the candidate with the weakest vision has clobbered Bernie in a majority of races? Maybe you can explain how the democrats are blind to that fact despite the “traditional” democratic candidates doing better than the “Bernie” type candidates in 2018?

Because if you can’t articulate those facts I would say it’s not the democrats that are blind.
So true. Americans have neither vision nor do they want any. It's just that American democracy will remain dead until that changes. The one thing that American has forgotten is the meaning of inalienable rights. That's been replaced with I me me mine.
 
Can you explain to me how the people want a vision when the candidate with the weakest vision has clobbered Bernie in a majority of races? Maybe you can explain how the democrats are blind to that fact despite the “traditional” democratic candidates doing better than the “Bernie” type candidates in 2018?

Because if you can’t articulate those facts I would say it’s not the democrats that are blind.

Democrats are a Subset of the People. In their pursuit of someone "Electable", they are choosing a Candidate that is not Electable.
 
Democrats are a Subset of the People. In their pursuit of someone "Electable", they are choosing a Candidate that is not Electable.
Again, I hope you wrong. I think you are conflating shouldn't be nominated with can't be elected. Looks like we better hope he can beat Trump. It's just that in my opinion nothing fundamentally important for the restoration of democracy will happen under his Presidency. Democrats will just stay comfortably asleep until some Republican con man offering hope comes along and kicks them out like they did with Hillary Clinton. Americans are trapped in a hopeless situation where the only exit has a socialism, do not enter sign over the door. Meanwhile the joy of living in America will continue to erode day by day. Not a happy place, the hog pen.
 
I read this as an apology by liberals [...] Oh me oh my, America, not me personally, wasn't ready for Sanders.

I mean, after all, like one black union voter said in the piece something like 'I had to work for my socialized medicine, why would I want somebody else to get it free,
Astounding! You castigate "liberals" as saying, honestly, that they resonate and are ready for Sanders but that America isn't . . . as though this were some sort of mealy-mouthed lie . . . and THEN you post concrete evidence that SHOULD show you exactly how and why "America" en toto isn't ready for Sanders!

To wit: A black union worker, ferchrissakes, so misunderstands Bernie that he thinks he's some sort of authoritarian communist raiding his SS and would never vote for him, yet you are so blinded by your otherwise admirable idealism that you can't see this. Take that goddamn mirror your always offering others and gaze into it until you finally see the idealism-addled politcal fool you are, My Man Moonie!

Our house is on fire. Don't stand there with your arms folded castigating us because the only usable water we have is not be free range, cage free and Brita filtered pure. Honest Joe is the water we've got, and water is what we need.

We need YOU and every available voter to take their place in our citizen bucket brigade. Otherwise: 4 more years of Trump. Please fosake your monk's robes, put on your big boy pants, and help us extinguish this Trump dumpster fire.

We need you. Your country needs you.
 
Astounding! You castigate "liberals" as saying, honestly, that they resonate and are ready for Sanders but that America isn't . . . as though this were some sort of mealy-mouthed lie . . . and THEN you post concrete evidence that SHOULD show you exactly how and why "America" en toto isn't ready for Sanders!

To wit: A black union worker, ferchrissakes, so misunderstands Bernie that he thinks he's some sort of authoritarian communist raiding his SS and would never vote for him, yet you are so blinded by your otherwise admirable idealism that you can't see this. Take that goddamn mirror your always offering others and gaze into it until you finally see the idealism-addled politcal fool you are, My Man Moonie!

Our house is on fire. Don't stand there with your arms folded castigating us because the only usable water we have is not be free range, cage free and Brita filtered pure. Honest Joe is the water we've got, and water is what we need.

We need YOU and every available voter to take their place in our citizen bucket brigade. Otherwise: 4 more years of Trump. Please fosake your monk's robes, put on your big boy pants, and help us extinguish this Trump dumpster fire.

We need you. Your country needs you.


Well said.

Unfortunately, from what I've been reading and seeing/hearing....when the general rolls around, quite a few Bernie Bros are, again, gonna teach those evil Dems a lesson for not nominating Bernie, again, and refuse to vote, again. "Biden can't beat Trump so why should I vote for him?" is commonly heard, along with Biden failing purity tests, amongst other pitiable attempts at rationalizing acting like petulant children, stamping their feet and throwing a virtual temper tantrum while refusing to actually support the nominated candidate opposing Trump.

Hear a lot of crying but no call to support anyone other than Bernie.....
 
Well said.

Unfortunately, from what I've been reading and seeing/hearing....when the general rolls around, quite a few Bernie Bros are, again, gonna teach those evil Dems a lesson for not nominating Bernie, again, and refuse to vote, again. "Biden can't beat Trump so why should I vote for him?" is commonly heard, along with Biden failing purity tests, amongst other pitiable attempts at rationalizing acting like petulant children, stamping their feet and throwing a virtual temper tantrum while refusing to actually support the nominated candidate opposing Trump.

Hear a lot of crying but no call to support anyone other than Bernie.....

The race is not over, the better Candidate can still be chosen.
 
Again why do sanders supporters think their 30% knows better than the 70% that don’t trust sanders policies and prefer the Obama status quo? No matter what Biden supported before joining the Obama ticket, you can bet this new administration will be Obama 2.0 not some war mongering zealot supporting busing.
 
The race is not over, the better Candidate can still be chosen.

Got nothing really against Bernie, except he's wholly unelectable nationally.

BTW....how's that youth vote Bernie guaranteed he'd get out? Honestly, if Sanders cannot deliver one small segment that he's pinned his nominating hopes upon, what sliver of a chance does he have in the general election, given his obvious baggage?
 
Again why do sanders supporters think their 30% knows better than the 70% that don’t trust sanders policies and prefer the Obama status quo? No matter what Biden supported before joining the Obama ticket, you can bet this new administration will be Obama 2.0 not some war mongering zealot supporting busing.

Why do you keep assuming that 100% are choosing? Less than 30% of the Electorate Vote in both Parties Primaries. So that probably means that <20% of Americans are choosing a Democrat and that Biden is being chosen by approx 15% of the Electorate. On top of this, Exit Polls and other Public Polls show very strong Support amongst Democrats and even the General Public for the Policies Bernie advocates for.

I will point out, once again, that 1 of the 2 Candidates selected during the Primaries Wins and the other Loses. On top of that, Democrats are a Subset of the Electorate consisting of 30ish% of the Electorate. So don't tell "Bernie Bros" that they are being the unreasonable ones here. I am a Harbinger of Doom, warning you of the colossal mistake you are making.

Bookmark this: Biden Can Not and Will Not Win.
 
Again why do sanders supporters think their 30% knows better than the 70% that don’t trust sanders policies and prefer the Obama status quo? No matter what Biden supported before joining the Obama ticket, you can bet this new administration will be Obama 2.0 not some war mongering zealot supporting busing.
Why do you think you know better than Trump and the cultists who surround him and worship him like a Golden Calf? I think it is is because your brain is wired in a way that it is less susceptible to the kind of childhood programming that makes authoritarians become Stockholm Syndrome victims. In stead, you have a different kind of fear you are susceptible to, fear of what those deranged conservatives will do to their victims. They are quite mad and your fears are rationally justified. But what that fear will do to your conscious awareness is not. Liberals only add to the fire by trying to suppress what they fear. And the one thing about fear that has been scientifically tested and verified is that it makes people more conservative than they normally would be without it.

In the sea there are treasures beyond compare, but if you seek safety it is on the shore. A saying

I don't fear Trump because Trump is me. All I ever wanted to do was to wish that weren't so, and so badly it killed me. I am very comfortable with hogs. I never had anything else to love even though they made me sick with what it was they called love.
 
Got nothing really against Bernie, except he's wholly unelectable nationally.

BTW....how's that youth vote Bernie guaranteed he'd get out? Honestly, if Sanders cannot deliver one small segment that he's pinned his nominating hopes upon, what sliver of a chance does he have in the general election, given his obvious baggage?
Isn't his baggage you, the reality your thinking creates?
 
What part increased your admiration for him? I read it and other than a few details I didn’t see anything new about the guy or his campaign that I already didn’t know.

I did find the claim that the only reason for him running was because he believed he could defeat trump a little disingenuous since he’s still in the race despite being unable to turn out his “base”.

Spoken with your usual arrogance in my opinion. How would you know what someone else felt they saw or learned from the article or what changes in attitude it might create. Perhaps he read it with an open heart and you read it emotionally dead. Or perhaps he knows more about Sanders than you ever will and still added to that collection, whereas all you saw was our own propaganda created opinion. But I understand the lofty place you deal such judgment from, wise as Solomon and emotionally unmoved in your ivory tower, looking down at the masses who can be influenced by other people's opinions like the ones in the link.

And as for the disingenuous claim you make, it strikes me as so often before, you just don't seem to be able to comprehend what you read:


From the piece:

“The only reason Bernie’s in this race,” Jane Sanders told me in early February, “is because we think he’s the best chance to defeat Trump.” Sanders himself acknowledged this foremost priority the day after his electoral firewall collapsed in Michigan — and then added, with a degree of candor that was remarkable even for him, that millions of Democratic voters across the nation happened to disagree that he represented the best chance of doing so."

But it goes on to say:

“It’s never been about only winning the election,” Jane Sanders told me in February, back when victory was a distinct possibility. “I mean, if you won just because you were the one with the superior campaign strategies, that would not be terribly satisfying in the end. It’s much more satisfying to pick up the paper, go online or watch TV and see town halls of people questioning their senators about Medicare for All from a more informed point of view, using facts rather than vitriol. That’s been so moving to see, really. So gratifying.”

The notion that political change and electoral victory were often two different things — that the former could and did occur without the latter — has been an essential tenet of Sanders’s underdog career. On the day after Elizabeth Warren announced that she was suspending her campaign, the Vermont senator held a news conference. He wore his navy blazer and a matching tie, an implicit show of respect for the vanquished; and though he took handwritten notes to the lectern, he barely glanced at them, instead gazing reflectively at no one in particular. He observed that many politicians “fade away” as their losing campaigns do. This would not be Warren’s fate, he said. Then he explained why: “She has changed political consciousness in America — which, at the end of the day, is the most important thing that any candidate could do.”

Bolding added by me.

And why he should not leave the race.
 
The guy telling everyone else in the thread what they fear is telling the guy who asked the OP what specifically he saw in the article that increased his admiration for Bernie, he’s arrogant. Priceless!

I’d call you a hypocritical boomer but that’s a little redundant.

Since you didn’t bother reading my original response (increasingly common with you) I didn’t bother reading your rant.
 
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