A stimulus plan that worked, the CCC corps

[nobodyknows]

I too think reviving the CCC would benefit America. My father was in it before WWII.

My Grandfather worked for the CCC for almost a week before they found out he was a Republican and fired him.

 

[shiner]

We have that potential right now. Get people who can work who collect medicaid to fill in the potholes and general repair that our infrastructure sorely needs.

Good luck in making it happen.

I've been saying this since I was in high school....and that was over 20 year ago. Sadly it is far too logical to ever happen.

 

[shiner]

Country just doesn't have the testicles to do that now.

But also the motivation isn't there. Right now unemployment is 10% so it's not staggering. Where will you find willing workers? Literally millions are sitting at home this very minute watching tv and eating nachos and tomorrow an unemployment check will show up in the mail. And when it runs out they'll get another one because the government keeps extending it. Basically we have the same thing, then, except in this case instead of planting trees they are planting their ass on the couch.

So exactly how would a program like this work? There is also the fact that many would cry about (and perhaps be right) yet more increase in government spending/size. I'm sure there are plenty of things to do though. Most home owners could use some semi-skilled labor. Many buildings could do with repairs, new paint, walls redone, better insulation, work on roads, etc.

Work or no check.

* For those physically able to work of course.

 

[StageLeft]

Work or no check.

* For those physically able to work of course.

This makes sense in some cases like if you're a stooge on welfare but in practice is easier said that done. Anyway in the case of most of us we are quite literally owed that unemployment with no strings attached because we've paid into it.

 

[hal2kilo]

IIRC, make work projects were quickly given away, and the tax cuts that the Repubs and cons conviently forget about were the compromise in the Stimulus package. Kind of like giving away the single payer option without debate. Bi-partisenship my ass! Course, us lame ass Democrats were too nice to shove it down your throats, see where that got us.

Nothing but fail, I give up on anything changing in the hopelessly dumbafied country.

 

[werepossum]

Ignoring the issue of the physical toll that a poverty-wage job might take on an older person, one issue is precisely that by working one of those jobs you could render yourself unemployable in your field and thus unable to "find a better job".

What will prospective employers and hiring partners and managers think when they see that their white collar job applicant has reduced himself to flipping burgers? "He must feel pretty worthless about himself if he did that, so why should we hire him for our white collar job? We don't hire losers! Since he worked fast food, it's impossible for him to ever be able to work as a <whatever field his degree is in> again."

That's sad, but I suspect that a great many decision-makers are snooty and see things that way. In the field I trained for (lawyer), if you don't find a job in the field shortly after graduation you will be regarded as a loser and become completely ineligible for consideration for entry-level jobs in the field, regardless of whether or not you can actually perform the job well in reality.

Aside from your wanting to commit suicide or to go on a violent rampage if you have to concretize the notion that you are completely worthelss and a total loser by taking a poverty wage job, I suspect that many college-educated people would rather spend their time looking for work in their field or at least white collar work for those reasons. I certainly agree that white-collar employers shouldn't look down on people who have a work ethic and a sense of responsibility, but sadly our nation has devolved (mentally and ethically) to the point where I think that would happen.

I see things diametrically opposite. Where you see someone too proud and full of self-worth to take a menial job, I see a bum. Where you see someone who "must feel pretty worthless about himself" for taking a menial job, I see a worker who has pride in his work ethic. If I see that someone hasn't worked for months, the interview is effectively over. In my mind I'm buying someone's time; if I need him to unstop a toilet or change a light bulb, I damn well expect him to do it, just as I would.

Maybe it's just a generational thing or a small business thing, but in my experience people who work, work, whereas as people who are "waiting for an appropriate position" will also want their job descriptions written in stone to preserve their pride and minimize their work load. If I have a choice between two designers who have both been laid off for six months and one is delivering pizzas, there will soon be an opening at Pizza Hut.

 

[EagleKeeper]

This makes sense in some cases like if you're a stooge on welfare but in practice is easier said that done. Anyway in the case of most of us we are quite literally owed that unemployment with no strings attached because we've paid into it.

The employer pays into the unemployment.
The amounts are billed from the state based on the track recrod of the employer

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I see things diametrically opposite. Where you see someone too proud and full of self-worth to take a menial job, I see a bum. Where you see someone who "must feel pretty worthless about himself" for taking a menial job, I see a worker who has pride in his work ethic. If I see that someone hasn't worked for months, the interview is effectively over. In my mind I'm buying someone's time; if I need him to unstop a toilet or change a light bulb, I damn well expect him to do it, just as I would.

Maybe it's just a generational thing or a small business thing, but in my experience people who work, work, whereas as people who are "waiting for an appropriate position" will also want their job descriptions written in stone to preserve their pride and minimize their work load. If I have a choice between two designers who have both been laid off for six months and one is delivering pizzas, there will soon be an opening at Pizza Hut.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you that someone's working a minimum wage job because that was all they could readily obtain should not be looked down upon by employers and that employers should respect that person's work ethic and sense of responsibility.

Unfortunately, at least in some fields, I think that your (our?) view on this may not be shared. Surely it would be shared by many employers, but I think there are also many that would not to the point where you might want to leave the Pizza Hut job off your resume.

here are many things that people do which should be respected and not devalued that people might need to leave off of their resumes, such as being overqualified for a job. Ideally, the ambitiousness, discipline, and intelligence needed to pursue and obtain an advanced degree or a professional degree should be respected and appreciated, but in reality employers are concerned (and perhaps rightly) that candidates will up and run for a job in their field as soon as one comes along (in spite of their not having found one yet).

What do other people think? Do you think that there are employers out there who would look down on something who admitted that they had worked at McDonalds or Walmart, or am I just deluded and attempting to rationalize the pride and sense of entitlement of the college-educated?

 

[Zebo]

Anyway that gets money back on the street helps. SBA loans, the home bubble, or sustainable jobs, etc. Situation now is 1&#37; owns 70% of nations wealth and everyone else is in debt both to the tax man and their banker. This is unsustainable. Question is what are TPTB going to do about it? Are we moving into realm of slaves vs. capital class like Bolivia or so many African nations or does govt implement sensible redistribution efforts. There are some exciting times ahead. Prepare.

 

[Zargon]

Ignoring the issue of the physical toll that a poverty-wage job might take on an older person, one issue is precisely that by working one of those jobs you could render yourself unemployable in your field and thus unable to "find a better job".

What will prospective employers and hiring partners and managers think when they see that their white collar job applicant has reduced himself to flipping burgers? "He must feel pretty worthless about himself if he did that, so why should we hire him for our white collar job? We don't hire losers! Since he worked fast food, it's impossible for him to ever be able to work as a <whatever field his degree is in> again."

That's sad, but I suspect that a great many decision-makers are snooty and see things that way. In the field I trained for (lawyer), if you don't find a job in the field shortly after graduation you will be regarded as a loser and become completely ineligible for consideration for entry-level jobs in the field, regardless of whether or not you can actually perform the job well in reality.

I agree and its sad. Sitting at homne sucking on the govt dime because you are 'too good' for the only work available is BS.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I've been saying this since I was in high school....and that was over 20 year ago. Sadly it is far too logical to ever happen.

The majority of people who are on medicaid are able bodied. They just don't have a job. There are those who can't work of course, and pretty much everyone gets that if someone is in that boat, then they're off the hook.

Paterson is going to raise our taxes by a billion dollars, cut our services and increase medicaid funding all at once.

Once my kids are out and gone, then we're out of this state, and they'll lose yet another producer.

Long before that, everyone who isn't tied to this state financially will go. No one will be able to afford 10 or 12k taxes per year on a $250K home.

At least if we're having the life sucked out of us, have someone fix the friggin pot holes.

 

[bobsmith1492]

There are those who can't work of course, and pretty much everyone gets that if someone is in that boat, then they're off the hook.

I disagree with this. There are very few people entirely incapable of performing useful work in modern society. You essentially have to be blind and quadriplegic to be unable to work with a computer at the least.

 

[werepossum]

Oh, I absolutely agree with you that someone's working a minimum wage job because that was all they could readily obtain should not be looked down upon by employers and that employers should respect that person's work ethic and sense of responsibility.

Unfortunately, at least in some fields, I think that your (our?) view on this may not be shared. Surely it would be shared by many employers, but I think there are also many that would not to the point where you might want to leave the Pizza Hut job off your resume.

here are many things that people do which should be respected and not devalued that people might need to leave off of their resumes, such as being overqualified for a job. Ideally, the ambitiousness, discipline, and intelligence needed to pursue and obtain an advanced degree or a professional degree should be respected and appreciated, but in reality employers are concerned (and perhaps rightly) that candidates will up and run for a job in their field as soon as one comes along (in spite of their not having found one yet).

What do other people think? Do you think that there are employers out there who would look down on something who admitted that they had worked at McDonalds or Walmart, or am I just deluded and attempting to rationalize the pride and sense of entitlement of the college-educated?

One thing people with advanced degrees could do, regardless of whether or not they take a low-paid menial job or just suck on the public teat, is find a place to do volunteer work in their field. Besides making contacts which may be valuable and hopefully making the world a better place, they'd be demonstrating that they aren't just unambitious losers. And if they can't find a place to do volunteer work in their field, at least they'd know it's probably time to go back to school; that masters in telephone sanitation or pet therapy ain't workin' out.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I disagree with this. There are very few people entirely incapable of performing useful work in modern society. You essentially have to be blind and quadriplegic to be unable to work with a computer at the least.

So you have a kid who has severe brain damage, can't talk and pisses himself.

He's going to do what?

 

[bobsmith1492]

That's another category, but then again someone like that typically lives with parents anyway so there is still no reason for unemployment-type government support.

 

[shiner]

So you have a kid who has severe brain damage, can't talk and pisses himself.

He's going to do what?

He could tutor McCowen in any number of things.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

He could tutor McCowen in any number of things.

I have a jar of Vlassic dills right here...

 

[woolfe9999]

This makes sense in some cases like if you're a stooge on welfare but in practice is easier said that done. Anyway in the case of most of us we are quite literally owed that unemployment with no strings attached because we've paid into it.

Right, but we aren't owed it indefitely, which I think is the point here. The idea of doing something like this is to quit extending it rather than to kill it altogether. With no income, people would flock in droves to get whatever work was available. They'd have six months, nine months, whatever, on unemployment. After that, it's get a private sector job, go into the CCC, or you're screwed.

The other objections I think are easily met. People over 50 and the physically disabled would be exempt. They could stay on unemployment or whatever public assistance they are on.

Any other objections?

- wolf

 

[bobsmith1492]

Right, but we aren't owed it indefitely, which I think is the point here. The idea of doing something like this is to quit extending it rather than to kill it altogether. With no income, people would flock in droves to get whatever work was available. They'd have six months, nine months, whatever, on unemployment. After that, it's get a private sector job, go into the CCC, or you're screwed.

The other objections I think are easily met. People over 50 and the physically disabled would be exempt. They could stay on unemployment or whatever public assistance they are on.

Any other objections?

- wolf

50 is dang young. Think about it, if you work from say 20 to 50 and live to 90 (very common) you've only worked 1/3rd of your life. Retirement mentality needs to change away from "Stop working and vacation for 40 years" to "Start looking for non-stressful work that you enjoy."

 

[Special K]

Also, it isn't really mooching if you have paid into unemployment insurance for a while.

It is a personal thing, some do just sit on their duff. Others use their time off to look for work or improve knowledge in a certain area.

Employers pay the UI tax, not employees. I believe it is illegal for employers to deduct UI tax from their employees' pay.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Right, but we aren't owed it indefitely, which I think is the point here. The idea of doing something like this is to quit extending it rather than to kill it altogether. With no income, people would flock in droves to get whatever work was available. They'd have six months, nine months, whatever, on unemployment. After that, it's get a private sector job, go into the CCC, or you're screwed.

The other objections I think are easily met. People over 50 and the physically disabled would be exempt. They could stay on unemployment or whatever public assistance they are on.

Any other objections?

- wolf

I like where you are going, but try to get Paterson to tell the Medicaid people that they are going to have to do some work if they are able.

Watch hilarity ensue.

It will never happen, because we're looking to increase dependency (and that's the effect if expanding the program without SIGNIFICANT reforms comes to pass).

I hate NY.

 

[Special K]

Ignoring the issue of the physical toll that a poverty-wage job might take on an older person, one issue is precisely that by working one of those jobs you could render yourself unemployable in your field and thus unable to "find a better job".

What will prospective employers and hiring partners and managers think when they see that their white collar job applicant has reduced himself to flipping burgers? "He must feel pretty worthless about himself if he did that, so why should we hire him for our white collar job? We don't hire losers! Since he worked fast food, it's impossible for him to ever be able to work as a <whatever field his degree is in> again."

That's sad, but I suspect that a great many decision-makers are snooty and see things that way. In the field I trained for (lawyer), if you don't find a job in the field shortly after graduation you will be regarded as a loser and become completely ineligible for consideration for entry-level jobs in the field, regardless of whether or not you can actually perform the job well in reality.

Aside from your wanting to commit suicide or to go on a violent rampage if you have to concretize the notion that you are completely worthelss and a total loser by taking a poverty wage job, I suspect that many college-educated people would rather spend their time looking for work in their field or at least white collar work for those reasons. I certainly agree that white-collar employers shouldn't look down on people who have a work ethic and a sense of responsibility, but sadly our nation has devolved (mentally and ethically) to the point where I think that would happen.

Another issue is whether a degreed professional could even find such a menial job if they wanted it, especially in this environment. There is the whole issue of overqualification. If you are the hiring manager at Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc. and you see someone with an advanced degree applying for a cashier/fry cook position, why waste the time and money to hire them when you know they are going to quit as soon as something better comes along?

 

[cubeless]

Employers pay the UI tax, not employees. I believe it is illegal for employers to deduct UI tax from their employees' pay.

it's this thinking that is killing us... anything a business has to pay the govt comes out of the business... just like your pay... a business tries to cover its costs + a little extra to be an ongoing concern... ui , healthcare, ss are all things that are part of your salary, whether or not they hide it on one piece of paper or another...

icecream from your daddy is free... nothing else is...

 

[nobodyknows]

I disagree with this. There are very few people entirely incapable of performing useful work in modern society. You essentially have to be blind and quadriplegic to be unable to work with a computer at the least.

It's easy to think that, but I seriously doubt that it's true. I'd guess most of the people could do "some" work but I doubt the majority could hold full time, meaningful employment.

 

[irwincur]

The problem with this concept today is two fold.

1. People today are lazy as hell and would rather sit around and watch TV than work for a minimum wage. The CCC worked when people had nothing 'better' to do than to watch the grass grow. Not to mention they were not already jaded by free handouts, and an entitlement attitude - back then people were used to the concept that you work to survive, if you don't work, you will probably die in the streets.

2. Granting what seems to be unlimited unemployment extensions makes this even worse. Now the people can sit on their asses and get paid for it. Now, try to force them to work. It would be 'unfair' to pick on the new unemployed when there have been entitelment programs since the 30's that people have leached off for generations. Lawyers would have a field day with this one. The saddest part is that a recent study pretty much sums it up, people on unemployment tend to magically find work with less than two weeks of payments left. In other words, people do not look for work when they are on the dole. A few may, but the majority ride it out until the last minute.


Not to mention, the ACLU and whatever else legal funds would come out of the wood work the day that the government decided to MAKE people work.