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A Simple Plea: Be Civil.

C

Carmen813

Diamond Member
Note: A public warning has been issued regarding thread derailing. Pls keep it OT or bans will be issued and thread locked.

T.I.A.

Fern
Super Moderator

I understand that in this forum tempers typically run hot. I'm guilty of it myself. I also understand that given last nights vote, a lot of individuals are on emotional extremes.

My request is simple: be civil to each other. I don't care if you are on the left or on the right, ecstatic or pissed, if you've got a personal beef with someone, then take it to PMs.

If there is a single glaring flaw with American democracy, it's the idea that those who disagree with you are evil. Demagoguery has no place in a real debate. It only makes you look weak, not the person you are attacking.

It's likely I'll be taking a break from P&N since I don't really expect anyone to actually acknowledge my post (in fact, I'm expecting just more jeers). This debate has been exhausting. My hope is that some people will step back from the keyboard for a moment and think before they tear down someone else.

*Edit* This is being added after Fern's above edit. Given that the discussion has been "lively" so far, I've decided to add this article to my OP. It deals with the historical context of rancorous debate, so I feel it's relevant. I'm not sure I agree entirely with some of the assertions made, but it does make sense that the reason debates seem harsher is because modern media makes it more easy to see.
 
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I agree with you completely.

How about "Profanity, masked or unmasked, directed at another member will result in a one week ban"

Should stop the worst stuff that we see around here.

BTW calling someone an idiot should still be allowed.
 
ProfJohn said:
I agree with you completely.

How about "Profanity, masked or unmasked, directed at another member will result in a one week ban"

Should stop the worst stuff that we see around here.

BTW calling someone an idiot should still be allowed.
Click to expand...

I was called an idiot, and it is part of what lead me to make this post. It's not like my feelings were deeply hurt, I've been called worse, but it just furthers my own belief that it's impossible to have a real debate in this country.

I would rather be called ignorant. There is a large difference between the two words.
 
[moonbeam]But I am the most intelligent person on this board. If you do not think I am right, then you are a dumb fuck. If you do not listen to me and my opinions, which are always 100% correct, then I must call you a dumb fuck.[/moonbeam]
 
rudder said:
[moonbeam]But I am the most intelligent person on this board. If you do not think I am right, then you are a dumb fuck. If you do not listen to me and my opinions, which are always 100% correct, then I must call you a dumb fuck.[/moonbeam]
Click to expand...

This is pretty much exactly what I'm talking about.

/sigh
 
Carmen813 said:
I was called an idiot, and it is part of what lead me to make this post. It's not like my feelings were deeply hurt, I've been called worse, but it just furthers my own belief that it's impossible to have a real debate in this country.

I would rather be called ignorant. There is a large difference between the two words.
Click to expand...
I would agree on principle, but idiot is almost a term of endearment around here.

Trying to eliminate a term that people use so often would be to suggest that it should have been banned long ago, which is wrong. But to ban obscenities and language that is not part of our daily banter would be appropriate.
 
Carmen813 said:
I was called an idiot, and it is part of what lead me to make this post. It's not like my feelings were deeply hurt, I've been called worse, but it just furthers my own belief that it's impossible to have a real debate in this country.

I would rather be called ignorant. There is a large difference between the two words.
Click to expand...

Look, this is just an insignificant political sub forum. The people here are steadfast in their views. The government is a clusterfuck which is being run by a different set of goons this time around.

You will not change anyone's opinion. But it is still fun to argue and debate. I take pride when other users call me an idiot. At that point I know the argument is over and my debate was successful.
 
A lot of it occurs because it is online. People tend to act differently if they are anonymous .
I try to follow the rule of never saying anything I would not be comfortable saying face to face .

It can be hard sometimes to ignore comments people make and stay on target.
 
Carmen813 said:
I was called an idiot, and it is part of what lead me to make this post. It's not like my feelings were deeply hurt, I've been called worse, but it just furthers my own belief that it's impossible to have a real debate in this country.

I would rather be called ignorant. There is a large difference between the two words.
Click to expand...

What you do in a situation like that is to not go down to their level. Ignore there comment and stick to whatever the original debate was about. I usually just edit out comments like that in quotes.
 
Carmen813 said:
I was called an idiot, and it is part of what lead me to make this post. It's not like my feelings were deeply hurt, I've been called worse, but it just furthers my own belief that it's impossible to have a real debate in this country.

I would rather be called ignorant. There is a large difference between the two words.
Click to expand...

Nah, I largely disagree with what you say, but at least you're respectful and try to back up your claims with numbers, etc. You're no idiot, don't worry about what some of the guys here say.

:thumbsup:
 
blanghorst said:
Nah, I largely disagree with what you say, but at least you're respectful and try to back up your claims with numbers, etc. You're no idiot, don't worry about what some of the guys here say.

:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Well like I said, it's not like my feelings were really hurt. After ROTC boot camp, going through a wife's cancer diagnosis, and then going through my own diagnosis, not to mention a bunch of other things, I've got a pretty thick skin.

That said, it just makes me sad when people (again, either side of the aisle) go down to that level. I love this country a great deal, and I signed up for ROTC because I wanted to protect it. I have a very idealistic view of what America can be. It just gives me a heavy heart when our debates resort to these tactics.

Then again, as a Buffalo Bills and Sabres fan, perhaps I should be used to disappointment by now 🙂
 
rudder said:
Look, this is just an insignificant political sub forum. The people here are steadfast in their views. The government is a clusterfuck which is being run by a different set of goons this time around.

You will not change anyone's opinion. But it is still fun to argue and debate. I take pride when other users call me an idiot. At that point I know the argument is over and my debate was successful.
Click to expand...

So, if I make a post claiming all politicians have the welfare of the citizens they represent as their top priority, and someone else calls me an idiot, I win the debate?
 
Listen to me you fucking assholes. How many times have I told you you hate yourselves. How many times have I told you you feel like the worst persons in the world. a factual impossibility. How many times have I told you that you can't be insulted or harmed by words unless you already unconsciously believe them. You stupid assholes give me the power to insult you because you already feel that everything I say is true.

And how many times have I told you there is not a thing wrong with you, not one thing, except that you believe that there is. Now who is the fucking idiot? Look at your imbecilic selves. I told you there's nothing wrong with you you fucking morons. When are you dummies going to catch on? How fucking stupid can you be to be insulted by somebody who says you are really a god. Pretty fucking stupid, it would seem to me.

I am a mirror in which you see that you are a clown. Probably only once in your life have you ever met anybody like me who loves you more than you ever love yourselves.

Fuck you you sleeping gods. May you awaken from your dreams.
 
rudder said:
Look, this is just an insignificant political sub forum. The people here are steadfast in their views. The government is a clusterfuck which is being run by a different set of goons this time around.

You will not change anyone's opinion. But it is still fun to argue and debate. I take pride when other users call me an idiot. At that point I know the argument is over and my debate was successful.
Click to expand...

You are guaranteed to win every debate. You are definitely the biggest idiot in the world unless, of course, you called me the idiot. In that case, I guess it's me that won.
 
rudder said:
[moonbeam]But I am the most intelligent person on this board. If you do not think I am right, then you are a dumb fuck. If you do not listen to me and my opinions, which are always 100% correct, then I must call you a dumb fuck.[/moonbeam]
Click to expand...

Yup, I won!
 
It's impossible to be civil while someone is holding a gun to your head telling you exactly how you must live your life. It's impossible to be civil in this forum when half its members are standing behind this guy cheering him on and jeering at you.
 
Carmen813 said:
I understand that in this forum tempers typically run hot. I'm guilty of it myself. I also understand that given last nights vote, a lot of individuals are on emotional extremes.

My request is simple: be civil to each other. I don't care if you are on the left or on the right, ecstatic or pissed, if you've got a personal beef with someone, then take it to PMs.

If there is a single glaring flaw with American democracy, it's the idea that those who disagree with you are evil. Demagoguery has no place in a real debate. It only makes you look weak, not the person you are attacking.

It's likely I'll be taking a break from P&N since I don't really expect anyone to actually acknowledge my post (in fact, I'm expecting just more jeers). This debate has been exhausting. My hope is that some people will step back from the keyboard for a moment and think before they tear down someone else.
Click to expand...

People swear up and down and all around in real life. Whether you work in a sewer or work in the White House.

Get real?
 
CycloWizard said:
It's impossible to be civil while someone is holding a gun to your head telling you exactly how you must live your life. It's impossible to be civil in this forum when half its members are standing behind this guy cheering him on and jeering at you.
Click to expand...

We cannot be civil while in the midst of civil war.
 
blanghorst said:
Nah, I largely disagree with what you say, but at least you're respectful and try to back up your claims with numbers, etc. You're no idiot, don't worry about what some of the guys here say.

:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

yawn. IMO he just can't take the heat. It was I who called him "stupid" or something of that nature - in the context of "you can't be that stupid" or the like.
These sorts of posts have happened many many times here in P&N - they are just comical at this point. Here is a hint - if you can't take it, don't play - especially if you are going to post "stupid" shit. I do not and will not apologize for calling out stupidity and/or ignorance.
 
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