A Sensible Approach to Reducing Gun Violence

[jpeyton]

I have a suggestion. Make all men serve a few months in a military training program.

Nope. For a long list of reasons. Our military is doing splendidly with volunteers.

 

[jpeyton]

You're not actually pulling the trigger for each shot, the stock is pulling it for you. That's called a loophole.

You have no clue about how bump firing actually works.

Here's someone bump-firing an AR-15 with no butt-stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIC8SMttjjo

Watch that. Then please explain how the "stock is pulling it for you".

Instead of trying to save face by coming up with even more convoluted arguments about how banning bump-fire stocks is going to reduce gun violence, you can simply admit you're wrong. I would be totally okay with that.

 

[Venix]

The alleged problem with gun violence is already being solved by existing laws. Crime rates have dropped dramatically over the past few decades and continue to decrease. We don't need more laws.

 

[micrometers]

Pretty good suggestions.

I would also create like tiers of guns available for ownership. Like, it is kinda messed up that it's easier to get an AR15 as a civilian than it is to get one as a service member (you have to qualify).

So I'd create a tiered licensing system. Tier 1 you can legally buy a bolt-action hunting rifle.

Come back in a year's time, pass a test. Now you can buy a shotgun.

Next year: you can buy a revolver

on and on up to the AR15.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

You have no clue about how bump firing actually works.

Yes, I do. I apologize if I'm not being clear, because we're really talking about two related issues: bump-firing as a technique, and the special stocks that make it easier to do.

Watch that. Then please explain how the "stock is pulling it for you".

I'm refering to the stock that was demonstrated in the video xjohnx linked. The guy pretty much said exactly that.

Instead of trying to save face by coming up with even more convoluted arguments about how banning bump-fire stocks is going to reduce gun violence, you can simply admit you're wrong. I would be totally okay with that.

I admit that I'm wrong here all the time. Ask around.

As soon as someone can provide a rational argument for why it should be legal to sell a device that allows a semi-auto to behave like an auto, I'll consider it. Personal attacks? Not so much.

At any rate, the bump firing thing is just one of a long list of suggestions. And to be clear, I am not saying that needs to be changed because it is currently a big problem with gun violence. It's simply reflective of my desire for consistency in law.

Also, the availability of those stocks and methods is a common argument in favor of assault weapons bans.

 

[jpeyton]

Pretty good suggestions.

I would also create like tiers of guns available for ownership. Like, it is kinda messed up that it's easier to get an AR15 as a civilian than it is to get one as a service member (you have to qualify).

So I'd create a tiered licensing system. Tier 1 you can legally buy a bolt-action hunting rifle.

Come back in a year's time, pass a test. Now you can buy a shotgun.

Next year: you can buy a revolver

on and on up to the AR15.

I like the current system better. Go to a firearms dealer, run a background check, and walk out with whatever you want. It seems to be working well, because of the strong inverse relationship between the proliferation of firearms in our society and gun crime.

 

[olds]

I’ve been asked by a number of people to lay out my own suggestions for how to deal with the gun violence problem in the United States. ....

1. Link?
2. When you chose the word "sensible" for your title, you lost all creditably with me. Let the reader decide if it's sensible. We don't need your opinion rammed down our throats.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

1. Link?
2. When you chose the word "sensible" for your title, you lost all creditably with me. Let the reader decide if it's sensible. We don't need your opinion rammed down our throats.

Thanks for that incredibly rational and helpful reply.

Everyone knows that I, and I alone, am "ramming opinions down throats" by posting my opinions here. That doesn't happen with anyone else's opinions.

 

[micrometers]

You have no clue about how bump firing actually works.

Here's someone bump-firing an AR-15 with no butt-stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIC8SMttjjo

Watch that. Then please explain how the "stock is pulling it for you".

Instead of trying to save face by coming up with even more convoluted arguments about how banning bump-fire stocks is going to reduce gun violence, you can simply admit you're wrong. I would be totally okay with that.

bump firing is a great reason to implement a 10 round (or less) limit on magazine sizes.

 

[Atreus21]

I still don't see how any of this would've prevented Sandy Hook.

 

[micrometers]

I like the current system better. Go to a firearms dealer, run a background check, and walk out with whatever you want. It seems to be working well, because of the strong inverse relationship between the proliferation of firearms in our society and gun crime.

It's not working well at all. Other countries don't have as many mass shootings as the US.

 

[jpeyton]

It's not working well at all.

300 million firearms and counting, and gun homicides are down 50% since the 90s. What's not working?

 

[jpeyton]

bump firing is a great reason to implement a 10 round (or less) limit on magazine sizes.

Most gun crime involves fewer than 10 rounds being fired. How do you propose "fixing" that? 7 rounds?

When is the last time you heard of bump-firing being used in a gun crime?

 

[xj0hnx]

Pretty good suggestions.

I would also create like tiers of guns available for ownership. Like, it is kinda messed up that it's easier to get an AR15 as a civilian than it is to get one as a service member (you have to qualify).

Ignorance. What are you even talking about? Service members have weapons qualification in basic training, and are issued service weapons when they need them, but everyone gets a firearm when they deploy.

So I'd create a tiered licensing system. Tier 1 you can legally buy a bolt-action hunting rifle.

Come back in a year's time, pass a test. Now you can buy a shotgun.

Next year: you can buy a revolver

on and on up to the AR15.

That's just stupid, of course I expect nothing more from you.

 

[micrometers]

Most gun crime involves fewer than 10 rounds being fired. How do you propose "fixing" that? 7 rounds?

When is the last time you heard of bump-firing being used in a gun crime?

You obviously can only read half sentences.

"bump-firing" is a great reason to implement magazine restrictions.

Bump fire stock with 100 rd drum and it is effectively a machine gun.

Bump fire with 30 rd mag is nearly as bad.

But bump fire with 7-10 rds and it's in-effective due to numerous reloads.

 

[micrometers]

300 million firearms and counting, and gun homicides are down 50% since the 90s. What's not working?

Vtech
Columbine
Newtown
Aurora
Oregon Mall

god, there are so many.

 

[micrometers]

I still don't see how any of this would've prevented Sandy Hook.

They would have helped prevent Vtech and Arizona and maybe Aurora.

Sandy Hook is a good reason to limit the overall power available, period, in firearms.

 

[Tom]

It is still only firing one shot per pull of the trigger. It is completely irrelevant as bump firing isn't used in criminal activity. To base any kind of law on it is just beyond stupid.

Watch this one if you want to understand what you saw in the one you posted ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBAyOAiUIM

Hey that is cool. So to clarify for me, this device isn't necessary for bump firing, but it makes it more effective ?

After the firearms price drop when there's no new awb I might put one of these together.

 

[Cerb]

Vtech
Columbine
Newtown
Aurora
Oregon Mall

god, there are so many.

5 examples don't change that gun crime has been going down. Also, of those 5 examples, at least 2 would not have prevented anyway, maybe 3. How is making something already illegal more illegal going to stop it?

VTech, as it went down, has already effectively been taken care of. They closed their background check loophole.

 

[xj0hnx]

Hey that is cool. So to clarify for me, this device isn't necessary for bump firing, but it makes it more effective ?

After the firearms price drop when there's no new awb I might put one of these together.

No, it's most definitely not necessary. You can bump fire just about any firearm self loading semi-automatic with a fairly light trigger and recoil.

 

[jpeyton]

"bump-firing" is a great reason to implement magazine restrictions.

There's no reason to implement magazine restrictions when the data shows it won't have any noticeable effect on gun crime, because the overwhelming majority of gun crime involves less than 10 rounds being fired.

Do magazine restrictions make you feel better about yourself, or do you have an actual data point to offer beyond hypotheticals?

 

[jpeyton]

Vtech
Columbine
Newtown
Aurora
Oregon Mall

god, there are so many.

What's the body count on all those over a 10 year period? I think more people were killed last year by Captain Morgan.

 

[micrometers]

There's no reason to implement magazine restrictions when the data shows it won't have any noticeable effect on gun crime, because the overwhelming majority of gun crime involves less than 10 rounds being fired.

Do magazine restrictions make you feel better about yourself, or do you have an actual data point to offer beyond hypotheticals?

bump-firing. hello?

 

[Tom]

No, it's most definitely not necessary. You can bump fire just about any firearm with a fairly light trigger and recoil.

Thanks. I got another question which is kinda off-topic, sorry op, but since you're reading this thread..

when I was a kid my step-brother came back from Vietnam, probably was 1970, and he had a couple of guns he brought back. My recollection was one of them was the weapon he actually had in the service, was that possible then and is it still possible ?

And he had a Russian or Chinese weapon he brought back..but i don't think it was an ak-47, I think it was some sort of sniper weapon. Any idea what that might have been ?

Anyway i was about 14 and I remember shooting them with him but not a lot of details.

 

[micrometers]

5 examples don't change that gun crime has been going down. Also, of those 5 examples, at least 2 would not have prevented anyway, maybe 3. How is making something already illegal more illegal going to stop it?

VTech, as it went down, has already effectively been taken care of. They closed their background check loophole.

there are more than 5. Those are just 5 off the top of my head. THere are at least 20 mass shootings over the past 5-10 years...there was just one this weekend.