A resent Israel OP ed in the NYT's

[Lemon law]

Yep , no lie, here it is, the full text of the OP ed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/opinion/28benn.html

Gasp and all the perfidy, Obama is not talking to Israel, is not giving them their accustomed blank check, and when Obama tells Israel to halt West Bank settlements, he fails to have a dialog with Israel when Israel tells Obama to stuff it. And Obama should instead beg Israel, have a dialog with them, and then do the proper thing, and give Israel that accustomed blank check they want.

And its all due to Obama's Jewish advisers who secretly hate all Jews, including
themselves.

Now I ask you, is Allif Benn nutso or what? But give him an A++ for Chutzpah.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

People will take you more seriously when you can distinguish between 'resent' & 'recent.'

 

[EagleKeeper]

The author brings out some interesting points from the Israeli POV.

If Obama wants the problems resolved; he can not shun Israel.
Cutting back/off military funding may look like the carrot/stick approach; however, Obama dictating to Israel will not accomplish what he wants.

Israel's POV is not the American POV and Obama has to avoid the perception of favoritism and start with a clean slate, not a biased one.

Such a perception will make if harder for Israel to change their course. and encourage the middle finger to the overtures.

 

[bbdub333]

So Obama spends the first several months of his administration coddling up to Israel's nearest enemies, refuses to speak to the Israeli people, and then expects them to bend to his every request?

Israeli's can see Obama's ignorance and naiveté (sp) and I am sure that it doesn't make them comfortable as a nation when he seems more concerned with his own image around the world than he does about the security of our closest ally in the middle-east.

But hey... thanks for another hyper-partisan viewpoint.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: bbdub333
So Obama spends the first several months of his administration coddling up to Israel's nearest enemies, refuses to speak to the Israeli people, and then expects them to bend to his every request?

Israeli's can see Obama's ignorance and naiveté (sp) and I am sure that it doesn't make them comfortable as a nation when he seems more concerned with his own image around the world than he does about the security of our closest ally in the middle-east.

But hey... thanks for another hyper-partisan viewpoint.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tanks for your endorsement if the current status quo, the same staus quo that has failed to solve any Israeli problems for 61 out if 61 years of Israeli existence.

Do you seriously think that Israeli military hegemony will last forever, and that Israel can afford to infinitely build and afford to build Arab hostility at the odds of 275 million to six million.

I will point out in Israel's some 4000 year history, they were great at dishing it out to the weak, but when they pissed off the strong powers, they really got dumped on.

And if Israel wants to stand in the way of a fair mid east peace, they are crusing for a bruising now.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan are not interested in another state vs state conflict - they have all learned that to tango with Israel is disastrous. Economic stability is better than destruction.

In another generation or two, there may be changes in the attitudes of Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon. Radical Islam may come into play.

Syria has recently been shown to be a paper tiger, controlled by the external sponsors; Iran in particular. If they were interested in a conflict and felt that they would come out ahead; the end of the Israel attacks against Hezbollah would have been the proper time to strike.

So you have 6M Israelis that are ready to die to protect their country against the populations of Syria, Gaza and the West Bank w/ Hezbollah tossed in.

We have seen what Syria is capable of.
Hezbollah has shown the ability to prick Israel and then run for cover.
Hamas has shown the ability to piss off Israel and run for cover.
Fatah has shown that they are not interested in pissing off Israel.


So unless, the bit players are going to get positive support from Israel's neighbors; the status quo is going to stay for a generation of two. And doing so will then entrench Israel further into the territory that the Palestinians want.

Much of Israel's problems of the past 60 years is that they have allowed the world to dictate to them instead of doing what Israel felt was best for themselves. It may not have been a pretty solution; but it would have alleviated every follow on problem that has developed. and might have actually allowed the pre-67 borders.

Given what happened in '73, I doubt that some would have been satisfied.

As long as the Pals and Israel's are willing to live with the status quo, nothing is going to get resolved. Imposing preconditions on any settlement that one knows will be rejected will continue the quo.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: bbdub333
So Obama spends the first several months of his administration coddling up to Israel's nearest enemies, refuses to speak to the Israeli people, and then expects them to bend to his every request?

Israeli's can see Obama's ignorance and naiveté (sp) and I am sure that it doesn't make them comfortable as a nation when he seems more concerned with his own image around the world than he does about the security of our closest ally in the middle-east.

But hey... thanks for another hyper-partisan viewpoint.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tanks for your endorsement if the current status quo, the same staus quo that has failed to solve any Israeli problems for 61 out if 61 years of Israeli existence.

Do you seriously think that Israeli military hegemony will last forever, and that Israel can afford to infinitely build and afford to build Arab hostility at the odds of 275 million to six million.

I will point out in Israel's some 4000 year history, they were great at dishing it out to the weak, but when they pissed off the strong powers, they really got dumped on.

And if Israel wants to stand in the way of a fair mid east peace, they are crusing for a bruising now.

Failed to solve the "Jewish problem" huh? Fucking anti-semite.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
absolutely meaningless banter

fixed.


What I'm amazed is "They got a speech in Cairo, we got nothing". Yeah...in fact, Obama has already declared war against Israel. He hasn't said that Israel and America have an unbreakable bond, he decided to move forward on his own and cut off the money that we give Israel, he decided that Israel as a state cannot exist! Ask the random radical Jews throughout ISrael, they all seem convinced that Obama is a secret Muslim out to destroy Israel and tell them that they do not have a right to life [whereby 'life' means building settlements on Palestinian land] (the sad part is the last sentence isn't sarcastic 🙁 ].

The fact that many radical Israeli supporters are using their media attention to try to convince the population as if Obama is being unfair to them, when the reality is nowhere near as such. My disappointment is we haven't seen MORE action to stop the left of Palestinian land - if I had to take a guess, Obama knows that economic wores trump foreign policy, hence why he is more mute on the topic. Of course, trying to turn around the discourse on this topic isn't easy in America considering how biased we are. Thank god we have people, including many American Jews who aren't fans of settlements, on the side that wants to bring peace, justice, and respect to both sides.


edit:

dammit linking

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: bbdub333
So Obama spends the first several months of his administration coddling up to Israel's nearest enemies, refuses to speak to the Israeli people, and then expects them to bend to his every request?

Israeli's can see Obama's ignorance and naiveté (sp) and I am sure that it doesn't make them comfortable as a nation when he seems more concerned with his own image around the world than he does about the security of our closest ally in the middle-east.

But hey... thanks for another hyper-partisan viewpoint.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tanks for your endorsement if the current status quo, the same staus quo that has failed to solve any Israeli problems for 61 out if 61 years of Israeli existence.

Do you seriously think that Israeli military hegemony will last forever, and that Israel can afford to infinitely build and afford to build Arab hostility at the odds of 275 million to six million.

I will point out in Israel's some 4000 year history, they were great at dishing it out to the weak, but when they pissed off the strong powers, they really got dumped on.

And if Israel wants to stand in the way of a fair mid east peace, they are crusing for a bruising now.

Failed to solve the "Jewish problem" huh? Fucking anti-semite.

Take off the beer goggles before you reach to that conclusion.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: bbdub333
So Obama spends the first several months of his administration coddling up to Israel's nearest enemies, refuses to speak to the Israeli people, and then expects them to bend to his every request?

Israeli's can see Obama's ignorance and naiveté (sp) and I am sure that it doesn't make them comfortable as a nation when he seems more concerned with his own image around the world than he does about the security of our closest ally in the middle-east.

But hey... thanks for another hyper-partisan viewpoint.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tanks for your endorsement if the current status quo, the same staus quo that has failed to solve any Israeli problems for 61 out if 61 years of Israeli existence.

Do you seriously think that Israeli military hegemony will last forever, and that Israel can afford to infinitely build and afford to build Arab hostility at the odds of 275 million to six million.

I will point out in Israel's some 4000 year history, they were great at dishing it out to the weak, but when they pissed off the strong powers, they really got dumped on.

And if Israel wants to stand in the way of a fair mid east peace, they are crusing for a bruising now.

Failed to solve the "Jewish problem" huh? Fucking anti-semite.

Using the holocaust for a cheap, dishonest political jab? Wow, that's even slightly worse than the usual.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
People will take you more seriously when you can distinguish between 'resent' & 'recent.'

so why don`t people take you seriously?

 

[bbdub333]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

And if Israel wants to stand in the way of a fair mid east peace, they are crusing for a bruising now.

You act as if there would be peace in the mid east if Israel didn't exist. You're either trying to be funny or you are seriously ignorant.

 

[Vic]

We no longer need Israel as a strategic beachhead into the ME now that we have Iraq. And because Armageddon is not now nor ever coming, it's about time the Israeli govt answers for its atrocities against its ethnic minorities, and recognizes that it would not exist as an independent country AT ALL without the continual financial support it has received from the west.

 

[crisscross]

Quite disappointed with Obama's foreign policy decisions really and I was his supporter (still am I guess) but his decision to suck up to China, Iran, etc and not do enough to strengthen relations with allies like Israel, UK, India etc is quite sad.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Israel has been riding high off of US money. Sweet military deals, 1.5% GDP for free ($3 billion/year is a lot of money) and a blank check to do whatever they want. Obama, hopefully, will change all that. Once Israel realizes it doesn't have a wide swath to do whatever it wants, we'll see change on the Palestinian issue.

On the wider issue, Israel cannot survive in the ME without major restructuring. For one, within 50 years, the Arabs in Israel will simply out reproduce the Jews, this is a proven demographic fact. Israelis have 2 kids per family, the Arabs have 5+. The identity of the Jewish state is transient at best.

 

[Lemon law]

While I agree with OmarTheZealot, it still misses the point, a lasting mideast peace and continuing Israel settlement on the West bank are total contradictions in terms, the fault is not with Obama and is with Israel.

Since US interests are more with lasting mid east peace rather than Israeli unreality, Israel snubs Obama at its own peril.

Get a clue, Netanyuhi is a nutcase.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
While I agree with OmarTheZealot, it still misses the point, a lasting mideast peace and continuing Israel settlement on the West bank are total contradictions in terms, the fault is not with Obama and is with Israel.

Since US interests are more with lasting mid east peace rather than Israeli unreality, Israel snubs Obama at its own peril.

Get a clue, Netanyuhi is a nutcase.

whats interesting is that you have no clue what if anything will lead to a lasting peace!
There has never been peace in the middle east. even before israel was added to the equation.
You cannot possibly blame Israel since nobody knows what exactly if anything will lead to a lasting peace!

At least you finally came out of the closet lemon law!! It`s all israel`s fault...thanks for at least manning up!!

 

[Lemon law]

Please do not try to imply I think everything is Israels fault, but in terms of continuing settling on the West bank, yes that is a 100% the decision of Israel and hence 100% their fault.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Please do not try to imply I think everything is Israels fault, but in terms of continuing settling on the West bank, yes that is a 100% the decision of Israel and hence 100% their fault.

But you said that everything was all Israel`s fault did you not???
if you like I can dig up the post where you basically said said it was israel`s fault.....

 

[Sacrilege]

I think part of the problem is there are a lot of Eastern European racists in Israel who will never like a black US president.

 

[themusgrat]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Lemon law
failed to solve any Israeli problems

Failed to solve the "Jewish problem" huh? Fucking anti-semite.

Using the holocaust for a cheap, dishonest political jab? Wow, that's even slightly worse than the usual.

To be fair, he was asking for it with a statement like that.

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: themusgrat

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Lemon law
failed to solve any Israeli problems

Failed to solve the "Jewish problem" huh? Fucking anti-semite.

Using the holocaust for a cheap, dishonest political jab? Wow, that's even slightly worse than the usual.

To be fair, he was asking for it with a statement like that.

So discussing "any Israeli problems" is now considered anti-Semitic by the radically PC crowd?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: themusgrat

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Lemon law
failed to solve any Israeli problems

Failed to solve the "Jewish problem" huh? Fucking anti-semite.

Using the holocaust for a cheap, dishonest political jab? Wow, that's even slightly worse than the usual.

To be fair, he was asking for it with a statement like that.

So discussing "any Israeli problems" is now considered anti-Semitic by the radically PC crowd?

No discussing the Holocaust as being a possible solution that did not work to the Israeli situation is and should be considered off limits!!

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: themusgrat

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Lemon law
failed to solve any Israeli problems

Failed to solve the "Jewish problem" huh? Fucking anti-semite.

Using the holocaust for a cheap, dishonest political jab? Wow, that's even slightly worse than the usual.

To be fair, he was asking for it with a statement like that.

So discussing "any Israeli problems" is now considered anti-Semitic by the radically PC crowd?

No discussing the Holocaust as being a possible solution that did not work to the Israeli situation is and should be considered off limits!!

I firmly agree.

I also feel that attempts to justify the actions of the Israeli government/military, when they bring about the deaths of hundreds of civilians, should be met with a similar reaction.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Is a government responsible for the overall safety/welfare of its people?