a recruiter told me Associates == Bachelors

[JS80]

recruiter == retard

 

[sash1]

no degree > *

 

[rh71]

Can't get this job without a bachelors... they required a 4-year degree at minimum... made me prove it with a registrar's sealed envelope and all...

I guess they didn't like people who take shortcuts. Either that or to prove you can finish what you start.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: rh71
Can't get this job without a bachelors... they required a 4-year degree at minimum... made me prove it with a registrar's sealed envelope and all...

I guess they didn't like people who take shortcuts. Either that or to prove you can finish what you start.

I can finish it, I am just seeing if its WORTH it, it seems there are many mixed opinions here.

I will definatly talk to my councelor about it.

Originally posted by: sash1
no degree > *

OKAY MY GRADUATE HAT!

edit : at least the recruiter was a nice peice of eye candy, haha

 

[Zombie]

Unfortunately for you she is full of it.

 

[halik]

Honestly education is one of the handful things that you shouldn't start by aiming low... you're only fvck yourself in the end. I've got a double BS from a top 10 university and it's WELL worth the money - if you go to a reputable schools, all kinds of doors will open for you.

Plus keep in mind that especially in the IT field, you're facing global competition... Your 2 years or bulsh!t community college will be no contest to guys coming from India Institute of Technology engineering programs.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: halik
Honestly education is one of the handful things that you shouldn't start by aiming low... you're only fvck yourself in the end. I've got a double BS from a top 10 university and it's WELL worth the money - if you go to a reputable schools, all kinds of doors will open for you.

Plus keep in mind that especially in the IT field, you're facing global competition... Your 2 years or bulsh!t community college will be no contest to guys coming from India Institute of Technology engineering programs.

first ive heard of this.

 

[postmortemIA]

Originally posted by: Aimster
In the computer field .. degrees can be worthless.

I know people with no degrees in the computer business making 100K+

degrees aren't worthless... you have faulty logic. If somebody makes 100k without degree it doesn't imply that somebody with degrees doesn't make as much as that.

In fact, there's far more people with degree working 100K+, and far more people without degree workin $8/hr.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: halik
Honestly education is one of the handful things that you shouldn't start by aiming low... you're only fvck yourself in the end. I've got a double BS from a top 10 university and it's WELL worth the money - if you go to a reputable schools, all kinds of doors will open for you.

Out of curiosity, what doors has a double BS opened for you?

Plus keep in mind that especially in the IT field, you're facing global competition... Your 2 years or bulsh!t community college will be no contest to guys coming from India Institute of Technology engineering programs.

IIT is a great program, but that's like saying you can't compete in this industry because of those coming from MIT. It's a silly argument. The suggestion that coming from IIT automatically means you can't be competitive is also silly.

You sound more like an elitist than anything else. Hope that's working out for you.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage

first ive heard of this.

That's because you haven't been "in the real world"

They are cranking out people to do your job much cheaper like no tomorrow. Given that you aren't aware of this makes me think you should get your BS.

I'm really trying to help here. Get your degree.

Their are people as Descartes has pointed out that will succeed because they have what it takes...they "get it" I'm one of those people that "gets it" I'd like to think - a businessman that happens to be good at networking socially and technically. You can't teach that at a university. Technical skill only gets you so far, that's the ceiling i was talking about. Your soft skills will become MUCH more important than any technical skills you may have with certifications. Don't be swayed by the money, the money will come.

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage

Originally posted by: Fraggable
I've been told by a few people who have nothing to gain by misinforming me that an AA with 1+ years of experience will almost always beat a BA/BS with no experience. Where you really win is with an AA with co-op experience. That's what I'm doing now. And I am in the IT field - network admin.

If you can get real experience in the IT field while getting an AA, go for it and be confident. By real experience I mean something other than phone help desk. I got to completely skip that step because I had enough experience on my own to land an admin position right away.

I currently am a IT Assistant, but when I got hired the IT Manager died , we support 100+ PCs and it was up to me to do it all until we hired another IT assistant to help out, my title is an IT assistant, but I consider it as an IT Manager, im not getting that pay, but I definatly have that workload.

I do want my bachelors, just because I have heard it will raise the roof in what jobs I can and cant get, even when I look on monster.com for jobs they all say have your Bachelors if not , have 5+ years experience.

and by high paying I do say 65k ++.

I also want to skip the phone help desk crap, I have heard it is just horrible.

But the # of years experience required is inflated on ___ALL___ job listings.
I've seen a lot of them that say minimum 7-8 years C#.NET experience. .NET was released in 2003. Do the math.

 

[ViviTheMage]

ahhaha glugg, I know I do think they exagerate sometimes, either way my plan is to get my associates then look for a job, if no luck in a month after i get it, then i will grab my bacehlors, full time, either way I will end up with a bachelors, it will take longer if i get a job with just my associates though, but i will be gaining experience.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: halik
Honestly education is one of the handful things that you shouldn't start by aiming low... you're only fvck yourself in the end. I've got a double BS from a top 10 university and it's WELL worth the money - if you go to a reputable schools, all kinds of doors will open for you.

Out of curiosity, what doors has a double BS opened for you?

Plus keep in mind that especially in the IT field, you're facing global competition... Your 2 years or bulsh!t community college will be no contest to guys coming from India Institute of Technology engineering programs.

IIT is a great program, but that's like saying you can't compete in this industry because of those coming from MIT. It's a silly argument. The suggestion that coming from IIT automatically means you can't be competitive is also silly.

You sound more like an elitist than anything else. Hope that's working out for you.

Not sure what you're aiming at with those statements (hard to parse). Halik never said that coming from IIT either meant that 1) an IIT grad couldn't be competitive or 2) anyone else can't be competitive in general. What he or she specifically said was that someone with a degree from a (bullshit?) community college wouldn't be competitive with an IIT engineering grad.

 

[spike spiegal]

Plus keep in mind that especially in the IT field, you're facing global competition... Your 2 years or bulsh!t community college will be no contest to guys coming from India Institute of Technology engineering programs.

......And having a Masters in Computer Science will save your butt? ROFL!

The reason that HR departments insist on a BS over even MA over a lesser degree is they assume because they will be paying college loans off for the next 100 years, well, then so should you.

Seriously, I've worked with so many IT departments for large, billion $$$ + revenue companies over the past ten years I can no longer count them. Ask any IT or Technology dept manager if they'd rather have HR filter the candidates, or hire in a contractor they know can do the job even though they didn't consider their degree when first contracting them. I'd say *at least* 75% would choose the later.

I actually do regret no getting my BS, but I've also seen countless corporate purges and downsizings, and having the better degree doesn't protect you from security coming to get you at lunch and giving you 5-minutes to clean out your desk. Often times the poor GED workstation tech making $30,000 has more job security when it comes to this than the 'more formally educated' engineers making $70,000+.

 

[postmortemIA]

They only reason somebody with associates can get decent job in BS level is when employer can't find anybody else.

This month, at Career Fair at my university, there were 290 companies interested in various engineers. 4 year BS/BA degrees are in. Only people who think otheriwse don't have one.

 

[spike spiegal]

This month, at Career Fair at my university, there were 290 companies interested in various engineers

"Various" engineers include electrical, chemical, mechanical, and so on. A chemical engineer for instance would have to have much greater formal education than a 'Network Engineer'.

As a 'Network Engineer', does that mean you physically design the IC's on network cards and geometries of network cables used in the building? No?

Companies that insist on higher degrees for IT related fields are only trying to filter candidates because HR has gun to their head. Of those 290 companies 270 will be backfilling those positions in a few years with contractors and out-source services and never inquiring as to degreed applicants.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: halik

Thats comple bs (no pun intended), your resume will get tossed out in the first round. Why sould we pick you when theres many, many other candidates with real degrees.

What if he's smarter than those with real degrees? The piece of paper might get you the interview, but at some point the person's capabilities take over.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: gsellis

But 10 years from graduation, it will be BS+9 > AA+11 (where AA may get resume dropped for app pool by HR handling the resumes).

10 years from graduation, they're not going to care about the paper and they're going to expect you to perform. In 10 years, you'll have made a track record for yourself, and that is what will stand out or hold you back.

 

[bozack]

Honestly it depends on where you want to go with your career in the IT field.

If you want to stay on the technical side and have no management aspirations outside of a team lead then the AA and certifications will do you fine...however if you ultimately want to venture into project management and move away from the technical than a BA/BS is pretty much a mandatory whereas a Masters is helpful providing your company pays for it.

I have a BA that is totally unrelated to the IT field as it is in policitcal science however I have been working in the industry for nearly six years, I make what you consider "high pay" ...my co worker has his AA and certs with more experience and holds a similar position so YMMV...

Personally if you are in a position to get your BS now I would say just do it as virtually everyone that passes it up ultimately gets it....if you are strapped for cash and or don't like school then just get the AA and some certs and go for it...I know though I have been told on many interviews when the economy was better and there was more competition that if I didn't have a BA/BS I wouldn't have been considered...

Also I guess I am the only one who never minded helpdesk...I did it while in school as it was the second highest paying job next to driving the bus...and occasionally I will sit in on the phones at my current job when the local analyst has to get lunch or something and personally I dont mind...then again this is for a company where I know most and before was in school so possibly that isnt the same experience as others speak of.

good luck

 

[Sid59]

Originally posted by: BigJ
BS/BA is what gets you in the door. Everything else after that is up to you.

However, experience can easily make up the difference b/w a BS/BA and an AA.

i'll agree. If you have jack dookie in the experience side for that you're applying but a revelant degree, you wont get many call backs.

On the other hand, if you have some random degree (whether AA or BS/BA) and sweet experience in that field, it can totally make a difference.

 

[postmortemIA]

double me.

 

[postmortemIA]

Originally posted by: spike spiegal

This month, at Career Fair at my university, there were 290 companies interested in various engineers

"Various" engineers include electrical, chemical, mechanical, and so on. A chemical engineer for instance would have to have much greater formal education than a 'Network Engineer'.

As a 'Network Engineer', does that mean you physically design the IC's on network cards and geometries of network cables used in the building? No?

Companies that insist on higher degrees for IT related fields are only trying to filter candidates because HR has gun to their head. Of those 290 companies 270 will be backfilling those positions in a few years with contractors and out-source services and never inquiring as to degreed applicants.

Your math doesn't add up. Problem is that out of that 290 great number had government cotracts- they are already contractors. There's no such thing as Network Engineer on any decent university.

Also, most of companeis were looking for more than one engineer majors.

I've visited career fairs for a while now, this was by far biggest in recent years.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Forget this ceiling nonsense. There is NO artificial ceiling in this industry, and if you want me to prove that 3,000 ways I can do so. If there were I would have hit it long time ago.

The ceiling is your potential. If you're good, you'll excel; if not, you'll always be limited. Experience is absolutely what matters, and the quality of the experience is paramount. Diversify your knowledge portfolio, seek challenging projects every single time, and make sure you continually progress in your abilities both technically and especially socially. This business is about how you can play the game, and understanding the social dynamic is what artificially limits probably 80% of all of those in IT. Understand it, play it, use it... and you'll find there's no ceiling.

Quoted for Truth.

 

[91TTZ]

Halik seems to bet the farm on the value of paper degrees, and makes no mention of employee capability.

For those of you that have worked in the field for a number of years, you'll see that not everyone is equal, and that the cream of the crop quickly rises to the top, regardless of where they went to school.

Halik, I hate to break it to you, but if someone comes from east-jabip university and delicatessen and happens to be a prodigy, he's going to pass you by regardless of where you guys went to school. Paper only lasts so long. Once you get your foot in the door, it's real competition, and a natural pecking order will be established.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
For those of you that have worked in the field for a number of years, you'll see that not everyone is equal, and that the cream of the crop quickly rises to the top, regardless of where they went to school.

For the most part I agree but it really depends on the company and their structure...when I worked for a government subcontractor you could get anywhere from a pay standpoint working the technical side with just certifications, however the second you wanted to migrate from technical into management..be it people or project, the stipulation for a degree was laid out. I worked with a woman who was more than qualified for a senior management position and had worked her way up through the technical ranks, however when promotion time came she was denied because she only had an associates and the minimum for the position was a bachelors...though generally if the company and or you are good and show some initative they will pay for your education either up front or in the form of reimbursement.

I also think your cream of the crop statement in a way applies to level of education, as most of those who are truly gifted are recruited by good universities and attain degrees...I hate to generalize however while I do know more than a few very qualified people with AA degrees and less, from my experience most who get AAs and or just go for the quick certs aren't the creme de la creme but rather those just looking for a quick degree and something to put on the resume without dealing with or paying for a four year school...I have worked with people who have all sorts of degrees, from GEDs to Harvard graduates and overall I find that those with four year degrees are a bit more capable of thinking on their feet and interacting socially in a professional business setting, granted there are always exceptions but on the whole that it my personal observation.

So while yes, the best and most talented will always succeed, the reality is that those people are in the minority

I think the best analogy I can think of was when I asked a friend of my mothers why he bothered paying such high fees to send his children to private schools when the public schools in his town were great...his response was that he knew his kids weren't the best students and he had the means to send them somewhere that stood out...so rather than save a few bucks and let them be brought down by their so so grades he would rather pay for a premium education which looks better on a transcript...I think the same goes for the higher education...if you are a star you will succeed regardless of where you go or what you do, but for many or most that isn't the case, and your credentials or lack thereof are what determine the doors which are opened for you...if you are a great worker that is truly skilled then by all means go with whatever you feel prudent, but if have the means now, and there is nothing preventing you from a four year degree, it certainly won't hurt anything in getting one now.