a recruiter told me Associates == Bachelors

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: DougK62
Most colleges are phasing out AA degrees - not even offering them anymore. That should tell you something...

That's probably because they are handing them off to Jr colleges/Community Colleges.

 

[ViviTheMage]

okay, so should I get my Associates in computer technology or computer/information management?

I should be able to get this degree in 2 more semesters, either of the two that is, while getting my CCNA, CCNP, and CCIP on the side.

or go all out for my bachelors?

 

[spidey07]

I think CCIE plus a BS should be your goal.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage

Originally posted by: Fraggable
I've been told by a few people who have nothing to gain by misinforming me that an AA with 1+ years of experience will almost always beat a BA/BS with no experience. Where you really win is with an AA with co-op experience. That's what I'm doing now. And I am in the IT field - network admin.

If you can get real experience in the IT field while getting an AA, go for it and be confident. By real experience I mean something other than phone help desk. I got to completely skip that step because I had enough experience on my own to land an admin position right away.

I currently am a IT Assistant, but when I got hired the IT Manager died , we support 100+ PCs and it was up to me to do it all until we hired another IT assistant to help out, my title is an IT assistant, but I consider it as an IT Manager, im not getting that pay, but I definatly have that workload.

I do want my bachelors, just because I have heard it will raise the roof in what jobs I can and cant get, even when I look on monster.com for jobs they all say have your Bachelors if not , have 5+ years experience.

and by high paying I do say 65k ++.

I also want to skip the phone help desk crap, I have heard it is just horrible.

Forget this ceiling nonsense. There is NO artificial ceiling in this industry, and if you want me to prove that 3,000 ways I can do so. If there were I would have hit it long time ago.

The ceiling is your potential. If you're good, you'll excel; if not, you'll always be limited. Experience is absolutely what matters, and the quality of the experience is paramount. Diversify your knowledge portfolio, seek challenging projects every single time, and make sure you continually progress in your abilities both technically and especially socially. This business is about how you can play the game, and understanding the social dynamic is what artificially limits probably 80% of all of those in IT. Understand it, play it, use it... and you'll find there's no ceiling.

No ceiling in many cases, but there is still a bar at most places that says, "you must be this tall to ride this ride." You have clients like that right here in town. I think TW, Federated, and Coke are all that way. I am down at the airport, and we have to fight hard to make sure it says and is understood "or experience" in the postings.

 

[batmang]

i have an associate degree.. it helped me get my job and im still here after 3 1/2 years.
i went to ITT Tech and it was the worst schooling ive ever witnessed. horrible school, waste of $26k
but my degree did get me my job.

 

[trmiv]

I have both an AA and a BS. Double win for me!!!

Of course I didn't try to get the AA, just lucked into it while working to transfer to a university. I went to my counselor before my last semester at a junior college before transferring to make sure I was on track. He said I was, and that if I added this stupid music class I could get an AA in addition to qualifying for transfer. It was an easy class so I took it.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
okay, so should I get my Associates in computer technology or computer/information management?

I should be able to get this degree in 2 more semesters, either of the two that is, while getting my CCNA, CCNP, and CCIP on the side.

or go all out for my bachelors?

AA + certs + no experience < BS + no experience

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: gsellis

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage

Originally posted by: Fraggable
I've been told by a few people who have nothing to gain by misinforming me that an AA with 1+ years of experience will almost always beat a BA/BS with no experience. Where you really win is with an AA with co-op experience. That's what I'm doing now. And I am in the IT field - network admin.

If you can get real experience in the IT field while getting an AA, go for it and be confident. By real experience I mean something other than phone help desk. I got to completely skip that step because I had enough experience on my own to land an admin position right away.

I currently am a IT Assistant, but when I got hired the IT Manager died , we support 100+ PCs and it was up to me to do it all until we hired another IT assistant to help out, my title is an IT assistant, but I consider it as an IT Manager, im not getting that pay, but I definatly have that workload.

I do want my bachelors, just because I have heard it will raise the roof in what jobs I can and cant get, even when I look on monster.com for jobs they all say have your Bachelors if not , have 5+ years experience.

and by high paying I do say 65k ++.

I also want to skip the phone help desk crap, I have heard it is just horrible.

Forget this ceiling nonsense. There is NO artificial ceiling in this industry, and if you want me to prove that 3,000 ways I can do so. If there were I would have hit it long time ago.

The ceiling is your potential. If you're good, you'll excel; if not, you'll always be limited. Experience is absolutely what matters, and the quality of the experience is paramount. Diversify your knowledge portfolio, seek challenging projects every single time, and make sure you continually progress in your abilities both technically and especially socially. This business is about how you can play the game, and understanding the social dynamic is what artificially limits probably 80% of all of those in IT. Understand it, play it, use it... and you'll find there's no ceiling.

No ceiling in many cases, but there is still a bar at most places that says, "you must be this tall to ride this ride." You have clients like that right here in town. I think TW, Federated, and Coke are all that way. I am down at the airport, and we have to fight hard to make sure it says and is understood "or experience" in the postings.

Well, I wasn't trying to imply that there wasn't a ceiling at some companies; everyone has their own policies. I was trying to point out that the industry itself doesn't imply any superficial limits on earning potential. OP seems to suggest that having this certification or that degree, etc. somehow correlates to earning potential, so all I'm trying to establish is that it's everything else that ultimately determines your level of success.

Also, I believe a great number of jobs don't ever get posted. When companies/recruiters resort to posting online it's usually for positions that 1) no one else wanted or 2) is so specialized that they simply can't find anyone. The larger projects are almost always filled by a few professional networks that include people known to produce results; this gets people in almost through a back door.

Speaking from experience, I've personally brought in teams consisting of dozens of people, and not through official HR channels. In fact, I don't think I've ever had anyone go through an official HR channel, and that includes government work. This is why I stress experience, understanding the social dynamic and networking; it really is who you know.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
okay, so should I get my Associates in computer technology or computer/information management?

I should be able to get this degree in 2 more semesters, either of the two that is, while getting my CCNA, CCNP, and CCIP on the side.

or go all out for my bachelors?

AA + certs + no experience < BS + no experience

Eh, that's debatable. I think any degree or cert without experience is pretty much worthless in practice, but if I were hiring I'd choose the person that demonstrated the most intuitive knowledge, not something regurgitated from a book. People with certs sometimes know everything by-the-book, but have little intuitive understanding of the actual material.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
okay, so should I get my Associates in computer technology or computer/information management?

I should be able to get this degree in 2 more semesters, either of the two that is, while getting my CCNA, CCNP, and CCIP on the side.

or go all out for my bachelors?

AA + certs + no experience < BS + no experience

difference is, I will have at least a year of experience when I graduate with my Associates next year around January.

Otherwise its a long haul for 2, if not 3 more years to get my Bachelors.

 

[Aimster]

In the computer field .. degrees can be worthless.

I know people with no degrees in the computer business making 100K+

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: Aimster
In the computer field .. degrees can be worthless.

I know people with no degrees in the computer business making 100K+

so do I, I know people making 85k+ working contracting jobs alone!

I want my associates at least though, then maybe from there find a job, while getting my CCNA or cisco certifications.

 

[preslove]

She was feeding you a line of bullsh!t to get a commission off of getting you a job. An AA degree and experience is definately better than a hs diploma and experience, but not by much. Many employers have very strict degree requirements. Nobody requires an AA, they require a BS, MS, or PhD plus relevant experience. Lacking a BS will potentially hinder your career. It just depends on the organization. Some only look at a your skills and experience, but others won't even look at your application without a diploma. With the rise of internet job applications many organizations don't even process applications that don't meet the education requirements.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

All things being equal, I'd rather hire somebody with a BA over an AA. You miss out on a lot of bredth of curiculum going for an AA. I know so much random sh!t because of all the GE courses I had to take.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
I went in for a small interview at TekSystems ( a contracting company )

Relevant point bolded above. At TekSystems having a pulse and knowing how to move the mouse is all that is required. Even if you were talking about a less shady contracting company, few contracting companies will care if you can even speak moderately proper english. Try applying for direct employment at places and see what happens if you have an associate's degree and they require a bachelor's degree. If you bring a voice recorder you can use their reaction as a laughtrack on a bad sitcom.

 

[EmperorIQ]

Originally posted by: ivol07
I have an AA from a CRAPPY school but I have 5 years experience. I am currently making 3 times as much as the guy who is 2 years younger than me but has a BS from UCI that also works at the same company. I am the Web Developer; he is a Tech support guy on the phones. Good for me now, but maybe in another 5 years he'll be making way more than me?

And don't forget the best thing you can have to get a job....CONNECTIONS. I've seen people who are dumber than dirt making great money because of who they know.

Seems like, in industry, there are 25% of the people that are like that. Some people I don't even get how they even get a BS/A to begin with.

Well, about you making 3x more, its experience, but the guy/girl with a BS might move up quicker than you did though. Or maybe he was a very very poor student? (Graduated with a 2.0?)

 

[EmperorIQ]

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage

Originally posted by: gsellis

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
what is the fastest way to getting a high paying job out the door when I graduate. I am looking for something I should do, not as a general .

That will get you one. But your definition of high paying and mine are different. $45k is not high paying. Compare that to the $100k+ jobs that require a BA/BS and say it is high paying. And when that job you are taking goes south, you have no latitude to go to another company with an AA, even if it is the same job you have been doing for years. No BA/BS, no look at your resume. You would be stuck.

Do the BA/BS. The recruiter is not looking out for you as she gets a commission.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

oh yea, that too. If a person refers a person who successfully gets hired full time, they get money. In raytheon and northrop, they get $5000!

 

[Fraggable]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
okay, so should I get my Associates in computer technology or computer/information management?

I should be able to get this degree in 2 more semesters, either of the two that is, while getting my CCNA, CCNP, and CCIP on the side.

or go all out for my bachelors?

AA + certs + no experience < BS + no experience

Eh, that's debatable. I think any degree or cert without experience is pretty much worthless in practice, but if I were hiring I'd choose the person that demonstrated the most intuitive knowledge, not something regurgitated from a book. People with certs sometimes know everything by-the-book, but have little intuitive understanding of the actual material.

There's the key. If you are the type to memorize facts and figures, you won't make it in the IT field and will not impress interviewers that work in the field. If you can learn very quickly, comprehend new concepts, recognize trends, and think out of the box you'll go much farther than the average idiot.

The key is learning quickly and knowing where to look for direction. There's too much new stuff constantly happening to think your degree will contain all the knowledge you need. What you learned in school about hardware and software will be obsolete in 5 years or less.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
I went in for a small interview at TekSystems ( a contracting company )

Relevant point bolded above. At TekSystems having a pulse and knowing how to move the mouse is all that is required. Even if you were talking about a less shady contracting company, few contracting companies will care if you can even speak moderately proper english. Try applying for direct employment at places and see what happens if you have an associate's degree and they require a bachelor's degree. If you bring a voice recorder you can use their reaction as a laughtrack on a bad sitcom.

your saying I will get laughed at if I have an Associates? Harsh, when I am hearing some pretty valid reasons to just grab an Associates and get in the field right away instead of another 2-3 and 30k $$ more...

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
I went in for a small interview at TekSystems ( a contracting company )

Relevant point bolded above. At TekSystems having a pulse and knowing how to move the mouse is all that is required. Even if you were talking about a less shady contracting company, few contracting companies will care if you can even speak moderately proper english. Try applying for direct employment at places and see what happens if you have an associate's degree and they require a bachelor's degree. If you bring a voice recorder you can use their reaction as a laughtrack on a bad sitcom.

your saying I will get laughed at if I have an Associates? Harsh, when I am hearing some pretty valid reasons to just grab an Associates and get in the field right away instead of another 2-3 and 30k $$ more...

I'll give you a few more possibilities...

1) You get your associates
2) With your experience you'll find a junior position somewhere making decent money
3) You continue going to school part-time, at your own pace. If the employer reimburses you then all the better
4) When you graduate you'll have far more practical experience than your peers, and you'll be a few years ahead.

Internships don't count. Actual in-the-trench experience is what matters, and that's what gets you to the senior-level positions. It's the senior-level positions that really pay.

Not to discount people in this thread, but there are some formalists that think they have to play everything by the book and sit around and wait to be promoted. They accept a meager income, accept the debt they put themselves in for school, and reconcile all of this in their minds by thinking it's what they had to do. They've been taught that there are a series of rules you have to follow to be successful, but it's simply not true. If you look at some of the more successful people in business, especially in IT, you'll find that the overwhelming majority of them did not follow traditional career paths. There are options, and successful people exercise them.

So, do what feels right for you. If that means AA + industry experience, then go for it. It's ultimately the path that you want that will lead to success; following what others think you should be doing will only limit you.

[edit]Spelling[/edit]

 

[ViviTheMage]

I was thinking of doing exactly what you were saying, get my Associates, work on my bachelors in the mean time (transfer to the u of m twin cities) , maybe get reimbursed. Should I take the money and time to get a cisco degree or MCSA degree? What sort of job CAN you get with an associates in computer tech ?

I have a little meeting setup with my councelor to see what she thinks is better, what the outlook is with just an AA, if i should get certs or not...

can anyone think of any reasonably good questions for me to ask her tomorrow?

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
I went in for a small interview at TekSystems ( a contracting company )

Relevant point bolded above. At TekSystems having a pulse and knowing how to move the mouse is all that is required. Even if you were talking about a less shady contracting company, few contracting companies will care if you can even speak moderately proper english. Try applying for direct employment at places and see what happens if you have an associate's degree and they require a bachelor's degree. If you bring a voice recorder you can use their reaction as a laughtrack on a bad sitcom.

your saying I will get laughed at if I have an Associates? Harsh, when I am hearing some pretty valid reasons to just grab an Associates and get in the field right away instead of another 2-3 and 30k $$ more...

Not at all... I am saying if you apply for a position that requires a bachelor's degree and try to pass off the associate's degree as one, you would get laughed at. Not many places require a degree, though, so you will be fine in general.

But to say they are equal is kind of silly. One clearly has a lot more weight to it than the other, but most companies don't really care that much. Just those few here and there who require bachelor's degrees for some unknown reason.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I agree a bachelors takes more time, has more indepth courses, more money too.

I think I will talk to my councelor more about see what she can dig up. If anyone can come up with some good questions to ask her, let me know!

 

[Genx87]

Tek Systems is a classic lowend recruiting agency. Honestly dont expect to get jobs that pay more than 15 bucks an hour and expect a lot of jobs at odd times, like 10-6 AM moving monitors or something.

Been there done that.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Tek Systems is a classic lowend recruiting agency. Honestly dont expect to get jobs that pay more than 15 bucks an hour and expect a lot of jobs at odd times, like 10-6 AM moving monitors or something.

Been there done that.

hehehe, I do that on the side right now.

Im a full time student with a 35+ hours a week job at the U of M Landscape arboretum as an IT Manager aand I only get 11$, haha.... I support 100 PCs on my own, im the only IT guy here!

I also do Dell contract work on thes ide (replace 40 motherboards for 15$ a pop, not bad when you do 4 an hour!). These get me some hefty checks.