A real discussion about spending cuts

[Darwin333]

Let's have a real discussion about spending cuts.

First of all, the real problem isn't big spending Democrats. Its also not Social Security, Medicare, or food stamps.

Problem 1. To really cut spending you have to cut defense spending. But no one in Congress wan'ts to cut funding for the military base or airplane factory or tank factory that's in their state or district. So we keep paying for things the DOD says they don't even need.

Problem 2. Stop blaming poor people when the big money waste is subsidies to large corporations.

Ok, lets actually have a real discussion then.

Social Security: 22% ($768B)
Medicare/caid: 23% ($802B)
Interest on the debt: 6% ($223B)
Other mandatory: 13% ($461B)

Total mandatory spending: $2,254B

Defense spending: 19% ($670B)
Discretionary/other bs: 17% ($615B)

Total non-mandatory spending $1,280B

Total Federal Revenue: $2,450B (which happens to be extremely close to the historical norm and rather close to the historical max which has never been sustained for very long in the entire history of our country)

So if we cut ALL defense spending, and I mean every single penny of it, we would still have had a 3/4 of a trillion dollar deficit for FY2012.

If we cut EVERYTHING other than mandatory spending, which includes the department of everything and even the electricity bill for the white house, we would have a whopping $196B surplus. Obviously cutting all of the discretionary spending isn't remotely wise or even on the table, just trying to make a point.

Since this is a thread about spending cuts and not about increasing revenue, where exactly would you like to cut to get our deficit under control?


Now that we have the facts on our spending and where it goes we can begin to have this "real discussion" that you said you desire. Since this is a thread about spending cuts and not about increasing revenue, where exactly would you like to cut to get our deficit under control?

 

[PokerGuy]

Anyway, its clear you want to attack me, not discuss spending cuts. Which is exactly why nothing gets done in DC either.

It's obvious you just want to spew lib stupidity, not discuss spending cuts. Which is exactly why nothing gets done in DC either. :biggrin: See how that works?

You say you want to start a real discussion about spending cuts, then start spewing lib crap as a starting point. Nowhere to go from there.

 

[Paul98]

Social Security needs to get phased to a more reasonable timeline considering how long people are living and productivity.

Defense spending needs to be cut dramatically, there are lots of places we can start on that front.

Waste and idiotic spending, look at what money is being spent on how the money is being spent in different departments. This is the government we are talking about here you know they waste tons of money on completely idiotic stuff.

 

[boomerang]

Here's a thought provoker.

Solari Special Report: Coming Clean Beyond the Fiscal Cliff

 

[boomerang]

Social Security needs to get phased to a more reasonable timeline considering how long people are living and productivity.

Defense spending needs to be cut dramatically, there are lots of places we can start on that front.

Waste and idiotic spending, look at what money is being spent on how the money is being spent in different departments. This is the government we are talking about here you know they waste tons of money on completely idiotic stuff.

But Nancy told us they'd already cut to the bone. But we know better. The question is, how do we rein in an out of control government and make them accountable? And before it's too late would really be a plus.

Step 1 Admit there's a problem. We can't get enough people in the .gov to admit there's a problem. So there's one problem.

 

[Darwin333]

To them our only problem is we should make poor people take care of themselves and stop giving them food.

Those people either don't understand what truly hungry people do to a society or they think they are rambo and won't be affected.

Granted, I do think that there are plenty of areas of all of our entitlement programs that can be cut but any attempt to do so is usually met with resistance from one party or the other with extreme bullshit.

Then we have the problem which isn't spoken of much, currently we are paying all time low interest rates on our debt, most of which is relatively short term and requires being "rolled over" every 5ish years (last I looked). For the time being this has been a great thing as it has saved us a ton of money, in fact our total interest payments have actually went down since FY 2011 despite the debt increasing rather substantially. The problem is, history tells us that the interest rates will return to historical norms sooner rather than later. When that happens, any cuts that our politicians will make (at least in this universe) will likely be wiped out or even more likely be surpassed by the increased interest payments.

As it currently stands, people/entities/governments are actually losing money purchasing our bonds at the current interest rates. How much longer they will be willing to do that is a very complicated discussion but I don't know many who would argue that they will continue losing money forever.

 

[Darwin333]

It's obvious you just want to spew lib stupidity, not discuss spending cuts. Which is exactly why nothing gets done in DC either. :biggrin: See how that works?

You say you want to start a real discussion about spending cuts, then start spewing lib crap as a starting point. Nowhere to go from there.

What would you like to cut?

 

[Anarchist420]

The way the law stands, not a dime of general revenue will be spent on Social Security. Ever.

The legislation won't always stand the way it does now.

 

[xBiffx]

Social Security needs to get phased to a more reasonable timeline considering how long people are living and productivity.

I'm all for that. Maybe 65 or 70 is a better number for SS.

A better idea would be to make it optional. If you have no other retirement means such as a 401k then you can opt into the government backed retirement program. You aren't going to get the same benefits of a 401k provided by your employer (matching for the most part) and you probably have to wait longer to access the money in SS than you would for a 401k but you will still see some return on your money.

 

[HeXen]

There is no single solution without a large group of people really feeling the pain and having it ripple with side effects nor could anyone agree to several solutions much less a single one if such existed.

So how about we just say to China they are not getting their money back and we wipe our slate clean and tell the world "whatchya gonna do about it, cause we be America!" Then we don't have to cut jack.

 

[Matt1970]

How the hell are we ever going to have any real Military spending cuts when just a minor cut caused Obama to do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6bh64yLKv8

 

[boomerang]

A fixed percentage across the board cut with no exceptions. None. Everything. Done with the realization that this is a problem that will not be solved in a year, or ten. And stop baseline budgeting. No more. We need to amend the constitution to require that all spending for programs or agency's that exceeds $100 million per year must sunset and be re-authorized every three years. With no exceptions. If it works, if it's valuable, it will be re-funded. If it's a bust, no hand-wringing need be done. It's gone.

We've all got the instant gratification thing going on in varying degrees. We're going to have to deal with the fact that there is no short term fix to this problem.

We're going to have to start doing jobs we don't want to do. Yes, that means removing permanently people who have broken the law to get here. We can not continue to have our dollars sent to other countries by people here illegally that send that money back to their home country. Those funds need to stay here supporting our economy.

There's plenty more but I imagine the lefties are about freaking out by now.

 

[Fern]

-snip-

Problem 1. To really cut spending you have to cut defense spending. But no one in Congress wan'ts to cut funding for the military base or airplane factory or tank factory that's in their state or district. So we keep paying for things the DOD says they don't even need.

Since Obama has been President we've cut the military twice to the tune of $800 billion (typical 10 yr figure).

And, as with all healthcare, Medicare and Medicaid are big problems.

Fern

 

[child of wonder]

Cuts to defense, social security, medicare, unemployment, corporate subsidies, etc. ALL must occur. We cannot continue to maintain this bloated budget and expect to have a country that even resembles America left for long.

 

[openwheel]

Liberals with no balls, and Conservatives with no brains...

Everything needs to be cut!!! End of discussion. That is something the Obama administration has done already, but general public will not see it nor will it be advertised by FoxNews. Only those who receive funding will know the real story. Back in 2006, 2007, it was so much easier to receive and waste tax payer money. Same cannot be said today.

The problem exists until we have a balanced budget, but Obama is being a pussy moderate about it. Extreme right wingers want drastic cuts, but Obama is cutting it gradually.

Everyone has an opinion, but no real solution.

 

[Moonbeam]

Conservative brains are like sore toes intentionally stuck out to be stepped on. These are folk who have been offended and are looking to re-experience offense so they can get their chemical rocks off in the brain. Their brains have developed excessively to respond to emotional insult by rationalization and the exercise of that ability has become a chemical necessity.

This is why a monk may have to meditate for years and years to kill that dependence.

It's why the wise recommend folk to relax and be happy. We easily fall in love with being kicked in the teeth as the reality of the Stockholm syndrome tells us.

 

[Matt1970]

Conservative brains are like sore toes intentionally stuck out to be stepped on. These are folk who have been offended and are looking to re-experience offense so they can get their chemical rocks off in the brain. Their brains have developed excessively to respond to emotional insult by rationalization and the exercise of that ability has become a chemical necessity.

This is why a monk may have to meditate for years and years to kill that dependence.

It's why the wise recommend folk to relax and be happy. We easily fall in love with being kicked in the teeth as the reality of the Stockholm syndrome tells us.

At some point even YOU have to realize you keep posting the same thing over and over and over again. You are worse than the Geico commercials. Are you doing it hoping someone new might see it?

 

[Tom]

I'm all for that. Maybe 65 or 70 is a better number for SS.

A better idea would be to make it optional. If you have no other retirement means such as a 401k then you can opt into the government backed retirement program. You aren't going to get the same benefits of a 401k provided by your employer (matching for the most part) and you probably have to wait longer to access the money in SS than you would for a 401k but you will still see some return on your money.

Here's the deal. We are never going to get anywhere as long as people think the solution to the deficit is to hijack the revenue that's been collected for Social Security, and is still being collected, and use it to balance the budget and screw everyone who's paid into Social Security.

Do away with Social Security. Stop collecting taxes for it. Give the money collected for Social Security that hasn't been spent on Social Security back to the people it was collected from.

Doing all that and it won't have one dime's difference on the deficit.

Which is why I would like to know what people want to cut ?

I want to start by cutting the defense budget the DOD says it doesn't need.

And subsidies to corporations that aren't willing to operate as US companies and pay their fair taxes based on their being based in the US, as opposed to corporations which claim to operate out of the Marianas or whatver to avoid paying taxes.

For starters. Don't like those, fine. Tell me why.

Have other ideas, fine. Lets here them.

We didn't need a thread for everyone to say things that aren't going to happen, like get rid of SS or Medicare.

 

[boomerang]

At some point even YOU have to realize you keep posting the same thing over and over and over again. You are worse than the Geico commercials. Are you doing it hoping someone new might see it?

No, he will never realize it.

It helps if you think of his posts as placeholders. Or an ad. You know how in some forums that you're just perusing and not a member of how they have ads place into the threads? Think of his posts like that. Just an ad where he's trying to sell you some crazy.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Everything needs to be cut, from military spending to entitlements like medicrap, welfare, social security, etc.

We should only be spending enough to maintain our current defenses at home, a strong defensive task force in the pacific, and a moderate defensive task force in Europe to protect our allies. Screw all these stupid civil wars we keep getting involved in. Sorry, but I don't really give a crap about the problems in Syria, Egypt, Lybia. Let the Muslims glass each other, that's on them. We have enough problems in our own country to deal with that affects Americans much more so than what's happening half way around the globe.

 

[Tom]

Everything needs to be cut, from military spending to entitlements like medicrap, welfare, social security, etc.

We should only be spending enough to maintain our current defenses at home, a strong defensive task force in the pacific, and a moderate defensive task force in Europe to protect our allies. Screw all these stupid civil wars we keep getting involved in. Sorry, but I don't really give a crap about the problems in Syria, Egypt, Lybia. Let the Muslims glass each other, that's on them. We have enough problems in our own country to deal with that affects Americans much more so than what's happening half way around the globe.

I need more details. Say a Marine loses both legs from an IED, your solution is to provide him with a prosthetic for one of his legs ?

Saying things like "cut everything" is the same as not saying anything.

 

[openwheel]

Everything needs to be cut. I have knowledge in one agency of one department, but I see cuts across the board as it should be. DoD, DoT, NSA.....etc. All need to tighten budget and management need to prioritize projects where re-obligate new limited funding. It's that simple, and it's already happening.

Cut the funding across the board in proportion to the current funding, and let each entity decide how to operate itself. You can't arbitrarily decide you want to cut defense and subsidy to corporations. As much as I hate subsidies to corporations, it doesn't work that way. Things should change gradually.

 

[Tom]

This probably makes sense. Would someone explain it to me ?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/26/usa-sugar-usda-idUSL2N0HM21O20130926

 

[boomerang]

I need more details. Say a Marine loses both legs from an IED, your solution is to provide him with a prosthetic for one of his legs ?

Saying things like "cut everything" is the same as not saying anything.

Wow.

 

[Matt1970]

I need more details. Say a Marine loses both legs from an IED, your solution is to provide him with a prosthetic for one of his legs ?

Saying things like "cut everything" is the same as not saying anything.

Beyond wow.