A questionfor those with strongly held beliefs against organized religion

[XMan]

What personal experiences, if any, instituted your feelings?

What particular aspects of religious beliefs are you against?

I'm honestly curious as I have a suspicion that many folks are not so much irritated by, say, Christianity as a whole, but rather by certain particular sects of it.

 

[Tab]

It's a lie and lies are not good things.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: X-Man
What personal experiences, if any, instituted your feelings?

What particular aspects of religious beliefs are you against?

I'm honestly curious as I have a suspicion that many folks are not so much irritated by, say, Christianity as a whole, but rather by certain particular sects of it.

Personal experiences? None. Never been one of them, never been bothered by any of them. Religion of any kind makes me sick.

Every aspect of religious beliefs.

 

[umbrella39]

I am a Catholic and I have recently become very much against organized religion.

When I heard yesterday that my Catholic church has spent over 1 BILLION dollars in the last 20 years settling out of court the lawsuits brought against priests... I just don't know what to think any more.

I think I will always be a Catholic and always believe in God but I also doubt I will ever step foot inside of a church again after hearing this. It would seem that in the case of the Catholic church, and I can speak for any of the other organized religions, there has been way too much predatory behavior by our priests and what worse, WAY too much covering up by the Vatican.

I think it is more than possible to have a relationship with God WITHOUT surrounding myself with other believers in a house of worship. I can worship God right from the comfort of my own home.

I know one thing, I will never give the Catholic church another penny of my income since they use it so flippantly to pay off the families of the children they have abused.

Sorry, but they are not going to rape and abuse kids on my dime any more.

 

[jjzelinski]

Originally posted by: X-Man
What personal experiences, if any, instituted your feelings?

What particular aspects of religious beliefs are you against?

I'm honestly curious as I have a suspicion that many folks are not so much irritated by, say, Christianity as a whole, but rather by certain particular sects of it.

In my case you'd be correct; evangelism is far too aggressive for me to appreciate it. The concepts of love, tolerance, compassion and temperance have taken a backseat to hellfire and damnation and I don't at all care for that paradigm.

Religion, though inherently ripe for exploitation and manipulation, is not inherently evil, or bad per se'. Those who are religious are likely attempting to pattern themselves after relatively nobel ideals and this is something we should all, in one form or another, seek to do. It's when they attempt to berate, chastise, and haraass others to undergo a change into their own ideals that I lose appreciation for the religious.

 

[Steeplerot]

I was raised to make up my own mind, explore my options and learn.

Western religions are way to stuffy, preachy and have way to much guilt/self-loathing imo.

Weird how so many can get sucked into such a huge story still, in 2005.

Nothing backs up that there is any sort of god from what I have found.

All those miracles have suddenly dropped of the face of the earth....maybe christian god is asleep?

Some of the customs of christianity are downright pagan...

Weird vampric / cannablistic rituals with sacrament for example, and hanging a man being slowly tortured in the theroes of mortal pain.

*shudders* If peoples parents haden't taught them this stuff and it be so in our society already and someone started a religion like that nowdays they would be looked upon as a death cult of some sort..

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: X-Man
What personal experiences, if any, instituted your feelings?

What particular aspects of religious beliefs are you against?

I'm honestly curious as I have a suspicion that many folks are not so much irritated by, say, Christianity as a whole, but rather by certain particular sects of it.

My "distaste" for organized religion is based on personal experiences. I was "forced" as a child to attend every Sunday, which I did until I was an young teenager. As I grew older and took a little more notice of the world around me and actually paid attention to what people did/said, I was disenchanted with the process as a whole.

I started noticing that there were/are so many different hypocrisies within organized religion to begin to question it's validity. I would notice how each faction would spew how other factions were incorrect in their beliefs. How they weren't worshipping the way that God intended. I noticed that it was a fashion show as much as it was a time and place to gather with like minded individuals to share a common belief that there was someone/something out there that was purely good and is an entity that should hold our highest regards.

Then, as I started following politics a little more, I got irate with people trying to tell me what I should or should't do or, worse yet, what I should or shouldn't even have the RIGHT to do.

I watched as groups like the Southern Baptists would regulary declare entire groups of people to be substandard citizens because they would do things that they didn't agree with. I watched as Jim and Tammy Faye stole millions from "true believers" who didn't question anything and just blindly handed over more than they were living on themselves. I watched as priest after priest was accused or convicted of child molestation. I have watched as Christians bomb of abortion clinics in the name of God. I have watched as Muslims have killed innocents because of their faith. I have watched as Jews have retaliated and killed women and children also. I have watched violence beget violence in the name of God and it sickens me.

None of my little "rant" here is to say that I am against religion as a whole. I am not. I believe that, if you so choose, that you have the right to practice however you would like. You DO NOT have the right to tell me that my way is wrong, provided I am doing so peacefully. You DO NOT have the right to force your religious views or beliefs on me either through rhetoric or lobbying for legislation.

I believe, as Jesus said: But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: X-Man
What personal experiences, if any, instituted your feelings?

What particular aspects of religious beliefs are you against?

I'm honestly curious as I have a suspicion that many folks are not so much irritated by, say, Christianity as a whole, but rather by certain particular sects of it.

I went to a Catholic school for a number of years, that pretty much set me against organized religion in general, or at least the way a lot of religion seems to be organized. What I noticed at the time, and what really bothered me, was that spirituality wasn't treated as a subject for contemplation and discussion where differing opinions were looked upon as a source of spiritual growth. Instead, it was very much a situation where you were told "The Way It Was" and nobody seemed interesting in spiritual growth. Success for my church and school was measured by how well you could parrot back "The Truth". For me, spirituality has always been a personal thing that is different for every person, and I don't think my school or church respected that. They were more interested in spreading their rigid views than in actually helping me, as a person. It seemed more geared towards people who just wanted to be told exactly what to believe, without having to do any thinking themselves.

Now I realize that this was just one experience, but my observations since then have confirmed this belief in many cases. I remember in college going to a Christian student meeting at a local church with a friend shortly after 9/11. During the meeting, I asked why religion wasn't more of a uniting factor between Americans and Arabs. I suggested that sure, the specific religious beliefs were different, but the basic ideas are the same. Everyone looked at me like I was an idiot and explained that Arabs have different, wrong, beliefs, so they can't relate to Christians. I've had many othere experiences like that, and I've observed many more, but the message is the same: Religion and spirituality are not about personal thoughts and feelings, the important thing is to believe exactly what we do, otherwise you are wrong. I don't want to have anything to do with that sort of small minded view.

My experience has mostly been with Christianity, but from what I understand, MOST organized religions are like this. Their beliefs aren't around helping you grow spiritualy, they are about making sure you believe the "right" things. That is why I've always liked Buddhism, because making it a personal thing and questioning every belief is a big part of the religion. It seems geared towards you personally, no matter who you are. I also realize that not all Christians, as individuals, behave like that. But the organizations, as a whole, seem to quite a bit.

Edit and Summary: To provide a quick summary here, my problem with organized religion is that it (mostly) seems to offer an easy way out, a fixed set of "right" beliefs, with all other beliefs being wrong. This is an easy answer to a very complex question, and frankly I think most people would be better off if they figured out their own answer. But maybe that's just me.

 

[jimkyser]

I'm not against organized religion. I'm against organized religion trying to force others to follow their proscribed practices. Religious people have every right to do what they want, but they don't have any right to create laws based solely on their religious teachings.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: jimkyser
I'm not against organized religion. I'm against organized religion trying to force others to follow their proscribed practices. Religious people have every right to do what they want, but they don't have any right to create laws based solely on their religious teachings.

But that's exactly the problem, organized religion, by its very nature, feels a very strong urge to make laws based on religious teachings. After all, those teachings were handed down by God himself, with very strict instructions that any contrary beliefs were wrong and should be punished. How could they not try and make society into their perfect relgious utopia?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Another here that was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools, church every Sunday, etc.

My own personal feelings on organized religion and God began to change in 4th grade. One of the nuns made the comment during science class that it was ridiculous to think that man could have evolved from "monkeys." I asked her why and she replied "Because monkeys don't have a soul." I thought that if the Catholic God really did exist, it was pretty unkind of him to rip off monkeys, and animals in general, that way. He sure didn't seem like a very fair God. Later I moved on to learn about the Crusades, various religious wars, the Inquisition, Galileo, the Conquests, and all the absolutely brutal things organized religion did in the 'name of God" and decided that wasn't any God or religion I wanted to be associated with.

Catholicism made me that agnostic I am today.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: X-Man
What personal experiences, if any, instituted your feelings?

What particular aspects of religious beliefs are you against?

I'm honestly curious as I have a suspicion that many folks are not so much irritated by, say, Christianity as a whole, but rather by certain particular sects of it.

I have no problem with the need to believe in something larger than yourself. My biggest problem with organized religion is when they attempt to enforce their beliefs on others. Recent examples include the freak out over gay marriage and the pharmacists refusing to prescribe birth control.

 

[Last Rezort]

Look i have no problem with Faith, but i dislike the dogma. The fact that you must go to church, and nudged to give tides. The fact that they preach hate twords people or groups they dont like, gays, yet have members molesting young boys. They are a hate filled pollitical machine, that thives of a myth of a supposed god. If this god created us all, he would be much more forgiving IMO.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Another here that was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools, church every Sunday, etc.

My own personal feelings on organized religion and God began to change in 4th grade. One of the nuns made the comment during science class that it was ridiculous to think that man could have evolved from "monkeys." I asked her why and she replied "Because monkeys don't have a soul." I thought that if the Catholic God really did exist, it was pretty unkind of him to rip off monkeys, and animals in general, that way. He sure didn't seem like a very fair God. Later I moved on to learn about the Crusades, various religious wars, the Inquisition, Galileo, the Conquests, and all the absolutely brutal things organized religion did in the 'name of God" and decided that wasn't any God or religion I wanted to be associated with.

Catholicism made me that agnostic I am today.

Well the Nun was right, it is ridiculous to think we evolved from Monkeys. Most Evolutionist believe that we might of had a similar ancestor but that we definately didn't evolve from any species of Monkey.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: X-Man
What personal experiences, if any, instituted your feelings?

What particular aspects of religious beliefs are you against?

I'm honestly curious as I have a suspicion that many folks are not so much irritated by, say, Christianity as a whole, but rather by certain particular sects of it.

None, I've never had any "born-again" experinces or have I witnessed anything I'd consider a "miracle". My mother family wasn't put the best of she's the only member who hasn't had prison time. She attributes this into her faith in god. I am confirmed lutheran. I don't remeamber when I started going to church, but I will say I had the typical teenage rebellion scheme set in me. Since, I've am quite active when it comes to computers and science in general. Religion and Science generally have a hard time co-exsisting with each other. It's impossible for someone to die and comeback to life. There isn't enough water to flood the entire world. Other incosistantcies in the bible like this. Then we have those who want to force their beilefs down our throats like the Terri Schavio case and issues like Gay Marrage and Abortion. I've been reading some Athiest things on Wikipedia and reading a lot on internet infidels. I have no problems with someone who beileves the best way to live there life is to become a Christian, I just think it's a bad way on how to tell someone else to live there own.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Another here that was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools, church every Sunday, etc.

My own personal feelings on organized religion and God began to change in 4th grade. One of the nuns made the comment during science class that it was ridiculous to think that man could have evolved from "monkeys." I asked her why and she replied "Because monkeys don't have a soul." I thought that if the Catholic God really did exist, it was pretty unkind of him to rip off monkeys, and animals in general, that way. He sure didn't seem like a very fair God. Later I moved on to learn about the Crusades, various religious wars, the Inquisition, Galileo, the Conquests, and all the absolutely brutal things organized religion did in the 'name of God" and decided that wasn't any God or religion I wanted to be associated with.

Catholicism made me that agnostic I am today.

Well the Nun was right, it is ridiculous to think we evolved from Monkeys. Most Evolutionist believe that we might of had a similar ancestor but that we definately didn't evolve from any species of Monkey.

Yes, I know. That's why I put the word monkey in parenthesis.

I think we both know she technically meant apes.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

All those miracles have suddenly dropped of the face of the earth....maybe christian god is asleep?

A little girl is bucked from a horse in a parade. Her foot gets stuck in the sturrup, and she is dragged.

Firefighter who is helping tells her mom that she will be OK, in spite of the injury. When the mom goes back to talk to the firefighter, the station says there is no one by the name he gave her. Looking through photo albums, she recognizes the man as her dead grandfather (dead before she was born).

The little girl is life flighted to the hospital, where the doctors tell her parents she won't live long.

A few days later, they tell the parents she will be a vegatable

a few weeks later, the doctors stop guessing. She has recovered fully, and functions like any other person. A recent cat scan revealed that she has a hollow spot in her brain, that goes from nothing, to quarter size, down to nothing again. I would call this a miracle. This happened to my niece, this isn't some nice feelgood story floating around the internet. She was 6 when this happened, she just turned 13, is doing well in school and has caught up with the year she missed in the hospital/recovery.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: X-Man
Topic Title: A questionfor those with strongly held beliefs against organized religion

What personal experiences, if any, instituted your feelings?

What particular aspects of religious beliefs are you against?

I'm honestly curious as I have a suspicion that many folks are not so much irritated by, say, Christianity as a whole, but rather by certain particular sects of it.

You got it all wrong. No true American is "against organized religion".

That is an American Foundation.

What many of are against is organized religion dominating American Government.

Keep it straight OK? Unless you live in another Country and don't understand.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Originally posted by: X-Man
What personal experiences, if any, instituted your feelings?

What particular aspects of religious beliefs are you against?

I'm honestly curious as I have a suspicion that many folks are not so much irritated by, say, Christianity as a whole, but rather by certain particular sects of it.

I'm not irritated by Christianity as a whole, I'm irritated by organized religion in all forms. Some, however, are more irritating than others.

 

[InfectedMushroom]

I dislike organized religion of any kind for the same reasons posted above by others.
I also think organized religions are just political parties spanning the whole globe. They are just as corrupted and full of sh1t as any political party, and will do anything to stay in power.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

All those miracles have suddenly dropped of the face of the earth....maybe christian god is asleep?

A little girl is bucked from a horse in a parade. Her foot gets stuck in the sturrup, and she is dragged.

Firefighter who is helping tells her mom that she will be OK, in spite of the injury. When the mom goes back to talk to the firefighter, the station says there is no one by the name he gave her. Looking through photo albums, she recognizes the man as her dead grandfather (dead before she was born).

The little girl is life flighted to the hospital, where the doctors tell her parents she won't live long.

A few days later, they tell the parents she will be a vegatable

a few weeks later, the doctors stop guessing. She has recovered fully, and functions like any other person. A recent cat scan revealed that she has a hollow spot in her brain, that goes from nothing, to quarter size, down to nothing again. I would call this a miracle. This happened to my niece, this isn't some nice feelgood story floating around the internet. She was 6 when this happened, she just turned 13, is doing well in school and has caught up with the year she missed in the hospital/recovery.

Wow. That is an amazing story, thanks for sharing.:thumbsup:

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
I am a Catholic and I have recently become very much against organized religion.

When I heard yesterday that my Catholic church has spent over 1 BILLION dollars in the last 20 years settling out of court the lawsuits brought against priests... I just don't know what to think any more.

I think I will always be a Catholic and always believe in God but I also doubt I will ever step foot inside of a church again after hearing this. It would seem that in the case of the Catholic church, and I can speak for any of the other organized religions, there has been way too much predatory behavior by our priests and what worse, WAY too much covering up by the Vatican.

I think it is more than possible to have a relationship with God WITHOUT surrounding myself with other believers in a house of worship. I can worship God right from the comfort of my own home.

I know one thing, I will never give the Catholic church another penny of my income since they use it so flippantly to pay off the families of the children they have abused.

Sorry, but they are not going to rape and abuse kids on my dime any more.

I am somewhat in the same boat you are. Always remember the TRUE definition of the word "church," is any two or more people talking about God. It has nothing to do with buildings, or a formal gathering. In fact, some of these threads can be considered, "church."

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

All those miracles have suddenly dropped of the face of the earth....maybe christian god is asleep?

A little girl is bucked from a horse in a parade. Her foot gets stuck in the sturrup, and she is dragged.

Firefighter who is helping tells her mom that she will be OK, in spite of the injury. When the mom goes back to talk to the firefighter, the station says there is no one by the name he gave her. Looking through photo albums, she recognizes the man as her dead grandfather (dead before she was born).

The little girl is life flighted to the hospital, where the doctors tell her parents she won't live long.

A few days later, they tell the parents she will be a vegatable

a few weeks later, the doctors stop guessing. She has recovered fully, and functions like any other person. A recent cat scan revealed that she has a hollow spot in her brain, that goes from nothing, to quarter size, down to nothing again. I would call this a miracle. This happened to my niece, this isn't some nice feelgood story floating around the internet. She was 6 when this happened, she just turned 13, is doing well in school and has caught up with the year she missed in the hospital/recovery.

A amazing story of the hardiness of the human body, kids are tough...but what does it have to do with anything spiritual? There is a darn good reason we are the dominant species on the surface of the earth...and stories like ths show we are very strong...your point?

Any angels come down and sit with her? God make a personal appearance at her bedside?
:camera:?

No, just more wild conclusions using a fairy in the sky to explain away what you do not understand.

For all you know it could have been satan himself, the tooth fairy and cookie monster or just a amazing metabolism, our brains can compensate for lost tissue by rerouting to a limited degree just like if you go blind the body compensates by upping your hearing etc.
The human body is amazing.

Or maybe god came by with a new bag of brains...right? re-upped her supply with a wave of his magical fairy wand.... :roll: please join the rest of the human race in climbing out the superstitious grip of these old folk stories, the dark ages are over.

 

[Moonbeam]

The problem I have with Christianity is exclusivity, that Christ or more particularly the historical individual Jesus, is the only way. This can only be so if Christ is not a person but God consciousness and whatever brings a person to it.

Religion is about the possibility of a transformation of consciousness so profound that only words like God really convey the magnitude of change. But this change can't be stopped for those who deserve it or given to those who don't regardless of their religion or lack of it.

So Christianity, like other religions, is a bridge to reality. It is crossing the bridge and not the bridge that matters. To fall in love with the bridge or worship it is silly.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The problem I have with Christianity is exclusivity, that Christ or more particularly the historical individual Jesus, is the only way. This can only be so if Christ is not a person but God consciousness and whatever brings a person to it.

Religion is about the possibility of a transformation of consciousness so profound that only words like God really convey the magnitude of change. But this change can't be stopped for those who deserve it or given to those who don't regardless of their religion or lack of it.

So Christianity, like other religions, is a bridge to reality. It is crossing the bridge and not the bridge that matters. To fall in love with the bridge or worship it is silly.

I agree, and I would like to add that there are many other Christians that would also agree. I think most problems people have with religion stem from a misunderstanding of what it really is.