A question for the conservatives

[nixium]

Agreed on all counts, most of the GOP field are idiots. But then again, he other side can and has done the same thing. Remember Obama doing his King Canute demanding the waves stop impression? You know, saying how after he was elected that's when "the ocean would stop rising and the planet start to heal"? Next to that, cutting a department or two sounds pretty easy to me.

I never really believed Obama could do the hope and change magic. Even if he was 100% committed, the only way he could bring about radical change was if a significant percentage of congress was also on the same wavelength. All the same, it was worth giving him a shot - the other alternatives were entrenched politicians who wouldn't have given any hope or caused any change.

 

[nixium]

Err, you mean like Obama and Pelosi ramming Obummer care through? "Where does the constitution allow you to do this?" "Are you serious?"

As for people waffling, how does everyone ignore Gingrich? Hypocrite? Yes, with regards to the whole Lewinski/affair deal. Waffling on issues? Please, post specifics.

Well the original Obamacare did not pass. The stripped down version passed, and it was specifically attacking something that had a lot of public support - high (and rising) medical costs

I really can't imagine how you could ram through something like de-funding the department of energy. It would need a majority tea party house and a filibuster-proof tea party senate + rick perry as president.

I think Gringich is positively intellectual compared to the rest, but my understanding of the electorate is that he's limited by some sort of "baggage"

 

[nixium]

It's been the Democrat platform for the last 10 years... why not see if it works?

Oh, if this were a general election, I have no doubt we'll see the same idiocy from the left too. Like this poster said:

Basicly our system has boiled down to electing whoever makes the best promises during their campaign and then listen to them make excuses of why they can't deliver on those promises for the next four years.

So it appears most conservatives on this board are jaded or at an "anyone but Obama" trend...

 

[matt0611]

I want to cut the federal government massively, stop the stimulus BS, end all these wasteful foreign wars, federal drug prohibitions, get our civil liberties back, return to capitalism instead of hybrid corporatism / socialism, lower taxes, return to constitutionally sound money etc

Will be voting for Congressman Paul because he's the only one that I believe what he says.

 

[thraashman]

Probably why we got Obamacare too eh?

Well, America was overwhelmingly in support of healthcare reform. And in fact the majority did at least at one point (before the right wing spin machine took hold) support a public option. Unfortunately the Democrats made too many concessions to the Republicans to try to make it a biopartisan bill (and then Repubs didn't vote for it anyway). And then you had the one or two hold outs in the Dems who wanted to get special consideration for their district because all 60 Dems were needed to overcome one of the record breaking number of filibusters from the Republicans. And you end up with something that really isn't what anyone wants.

Of course the Republican option has already been stated in one of the Republican debates, let uninsured people die then laugh about it.

 

[fskimospy]

Well, America was overwhelmingly in support of healthcare reform. And in fact the majority did at least at one point (before the right wing spin machine took hold) support a public option. Unfortunately the Democrats made too many concessions to the Republicans to try to make it a biopartisan bill (and then Repubs didn't vote for it anyway). And then you had the one or two hold outs in the Dems who wanted to get special consideration for their district because all 60 Dems were needed to overcome one of the record breaking number of filibusters from the Republicans. And you end up with something that really isn't what anyone wants.

Of course the Republican option has already been stated in one of the Republican debates, let uninsured people die then laugh about it.

Not to mention that eliminating the DOE is a truly fringe opinion that is overwhelmingly opposed while the ACA is only modestly unpopular. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to equate the two because they truly believe everyone else is as ultra right wing as they are though.

 

[xBiffx]

Well, America was overwhelmingly in support of healthcare reform. And in fact the majority did at least at one point (before the right wing spin machine took hold) support a public option. Unfortunately the Democrats made too many concessions to the Republicans to try to make it a biopartisan bill (and then Repubs didn't vote for it anyway). And then you had the one or two hold outs in the Dems who wanted to get special consideration for their district because all 60 Dems were needed to overcome one of the record breaking number of filibusters from the Republicans. And you end up with something that really isn't what anyone wants.

Of course the Republican option has already been stated in one of the Republican debates, let uninsured people die then laugh about it.

So you agree that no one wanted Obamacare. Reform yes, this POS no. And ROFL @ blaming Obamacare on republicans. You LOLberals are fucking hilarious.

So since people want energy reform, when a republican president eliminates the DOE we will just blame democrats/liberals for forcing the issue with filibuster. Fine.

 

[Ausm]

So you agree that no one wanted Obamacare. Reform yes, this POS no. And ROFL @ blaming Obamacare on republicans. You LOLberals are fucking hilarious.

So since people want energy reform, when a republican president eliminates the DOE we will just blame democrats/liberals for forcing the issue with filibuster. Fine.

No what we are laughing at is the Republican's Alternative to the Affordable Healthcare Act called SQUAT.

 

[zsdersw]

It's been the Democrat platform for the last 10 years... why not see if it works?

That says more about the Republican party than it does the Democratic.

 

[Macamus Prime]

"Conservatives" are so fucking detached from reality, that when they DO get into seats of power, they don't really accomplish anything - yet claim to have saved the nation, every damn day.

Just like there is no such thing as communism, there are no such thing as conservatives in the entire world. It's just a bunch of greedy corrupt bags of slime that look to benefit themselves. They put on the disguise of being rightious and are just as bad as any immoral crack head out there.

 

[PingSpike]

Well it just comes from the fact that eliminating the department of education is enormously unpopular with the American people outside of the extreme right. That's why no president will do it... because that's not what America wants done.

I've got a question...what does the department of education do exactly?

Edit: What I mean is...Education is already run by the states and is usually funded through state or local property taxes.

 

[monovillage]

Does anyone else find the humor in a topic titled "A question for the conservatives" that it is full of leftists answering?

 

[fskimospy]

I've got a question...what does the department of education do exactly?

Edit: What I mean is...Education is already run by the states and is usually funded through state or local property taxes.

Education is only partially funded through state and local taxes. The DOE has a discretionary budget somewhere north of $50 billion. They distribute that to states to promote any number of educational programs. They also give block grants to states so long as they comply with federal education guidelines, etc. Not to mention Pell Grants.

Ballpark, the federal government is responsible for about 10% of the funding for education. In poorer schools, this can be considerably higher.

 

[zsdersw]

Arguably education was better back then than it is now with more federal involvement.

Yes, education was better back then, but I don't think federal involvement played a significant role in its decline.

.. which is not to say I think federal involvement is necessary, though.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, education was better back then, but I don't think federal involvement played a significant role in its decline.

.. which is not to say I think federal involvement is necessary, though.

Actually by almost any metric educational performance in the United States is vastly superior to any time in our history. The achievement gaps we see are caused far more by our schools' inability to keep up with rising standards, not a decline in absolute terms.

 

[zsdersw]

Actually by almost any metric educational performance in the United States is vastly superior to any time in our history. The achievement gaps we see are caused far more by our schools' inability to keep up with rising standards, not a decline in absolute terms.

Actually what I was referring to is the decline caused by a cultural shift that turned schools into the only source of any kind of discipline (and food) a child receives.

 

[Atreus21]

No what we are laughing at is the Republican's Alternative to the Affordable Healthcare Act called SQUAT.

SQUAT is vastly preferable.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Well the original Obamacare did not pass. The stripped down version passed, and it was specifically attacking something that had a lot of public support - high (and rising) medical costs

I really can't imagine how you could ram through something like de-funding the department of energy. It would need a majority tea party house and a filibuster-proof tea party senate + rick perry as president.

I think Gringich is positively intellectual compared to the rest, but my understanding of the electorate is that he's limited by some sort of "baggage"

And it fixed health care how? Tort reform is where we start, redoing a lot of the FDA also. What we have instead done is raised the cost. All those Cadillac health care plans? I was on one. I'm on it until 2013. Then it's up and gone like a fart in the wind. All of the similar plans are going away....so congress' verdict that obummercare wouldn't cost us anything are now very much wrong.

Gingrich's limit is foot-in-mouth syndrome. See stuff about him sitting in the back of air force one (a joke the media decided to spin and run with) and his affair and subsequent divorce. That's where the media will get him.

But he doesn't waffle (Eskimo, provide a link.)

 

[ElFenix]

No what we are laughing at is the Republican's Alternative to the Affordable Healthcare Act called SQUAT.

squats are good for you if you do them right. strong, healthy core.

 

[cwjerome]

"Conservatives" are so fucking detached from reality, that when they DO get into seats of power, they don't really accomplish anything - yet claim to have saved the nation, every damn day.

Just like there is no such thing as communism, there are no such thing as conservatives in the entire world. It's just a bunch of greedy corrupt bags of slime that look to benefit themselves. They put on the disguise of being rightious and are just as bad as any immoral crack head out there.

This is a problem. All around. I wonder if you really believe this. I mean really believe what you wrote. How incredibly sad it is if you do. Sad for you because you are damaged, and sad for everyone because then there is no hope of improving the system.

The Left and Right are in a marriage... we are bound together because we live in the same country. If we want to make this institution that holds us together, this institution of marriage -this country- work then people are going to need to grow up, quit blaming, quit making excuses, and get real. All those things you need to do on a personal level to make things better, solve problems, and create progress needs to happen on the macro political level. If we can somehow rise above the rotten cynical landscape we've made for ourselves, drop the need to be right or slight others and show real empathy, understanding, sincerity, assume the best intentions, etc... it can be a good system.

There are serious problems in the system, or "marriage." How can anyone reasonable suggest the system/marriage can decently improve in an atmosphere that's toxic? It won't. As soon as people are willing to drop the team sport attitude and open themselves up (which can be extremely frightening and leave one feeling vulnerable), then things can get better. It's not differences of principles that is running this marriage into the ground, it's the methodology or relationship or whatever you want to call the general political discourse that's fucking things up.

There are many millions of conservatives and you know what? Most are basically good people. There are millions of liberals and most of them are pretty good people too. If each side started with that simple assumption, how the "game" is played might look a lot different and it seems to me a lot more might get accomplished. I have spent some time professionally reflecting on the theory of citizenship in this country, it's an interest of mine, and I believe the healthier the citizenry the better the government. Right now, we are poisoned.

 

[Matt1970]

No what we are laughing at is the Republican's Alternative to the Affordable Healthcare Act called SQUAT.

Did we really need a mandatory healthcare bill like that one and did we need it at the peak of the worst recession since depression? If we just got rid of the state to state restrictions we probably would have a damn lizard and everyone else competing for healthcare customers.

Well, America was overwhelmingly in support of healthcare reform. And in fact the majority did at least at one point (before the right wing spin machine took hold) support a public option. Unfortunately the Democrats made too many concessions to the Republicans to try to make it a biopartisan bill (and then Repubs didn't vote for it anyway). And then you had the one or two hold outs in the Dems who wanted to get special consideration for their district because all 60 Dems were needed to overcome one of the record breaking number of filibusters from the Republicans. And you end up with something that really isn't what anyone wants.

Of course the Republican option has already been stated in one of the Republican debates, let uninsured people die then laugh about it.

Not one single republican was involved in writing that bill and you can count on one hand with a couple fingers missing the amount of "concessions" made on that bill. America is in support of healthcare reform but even MSNBC couldn't produce a poll showing a majority in favor of Obamacare.

 

[Craig234]

There are many millions of conservatives and you know what? Most are basically good people. There are millions of liberals and most of them are pretty good people too. If each side started with that simple assumption, how the "game" is played might look a lot different and it seems to me a lot more might get accomplished.

I agree. But that doesn't stop them from supporting *terrible* policies and leaders.

I also think most Germans in Nazi Germany were good people. Seriously.

So how much does that really say about their being good at not supporting bad leaders? When the system is set up to mostly elect bad leaders funded by the corrupt, it's bad.

I believe the healthier the citizenry the better the government. Right now, we are poisoned.

And there are those who WANT a poisoned citizenry, an ignorant one, one that's easier to manipulate and get to support their corrupt leaders.

 

[cwjerome]

I agree. But that doesn't stop them from supporting *terrible* policies and leaders.

I also think most Germans in Nazi Germany were good people. Seriously.

So how much does that really say about their being good at not supporting bad leaders? When the system is set up to mostly elect bad leaders funded by the corrupt, it's bad.

My point was not that good people can support bad policies. My point was that people can perceive this and then completely demonize nearly half the population in a most disagreeable manner, just as Macamus did. If both sides are doing it -and they are- then what can we expect to accomplish? Nothing really... and things continue to slide away from us. We lose focus, get caught up in schoolyard personality battles, and the downward spiral continues.

You have not reached the point of many zealots on here but you teeter on the edge with unseemly self assertion, blinded by your own rhetorical virtuosity... which is the foundation necessary for taking that next step into the hateful demagoguery I speak of. You're certainly an enabler.

And there are those who WANT a poisoned citizenry, an ignorant one, one that's easier to manipulate and get to support their corrupt leaders.

Maybe so, although I doubt it's as one-sided as you surely believe.