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A question for the conservatives

N

nixium

Senior member
I watched snippets of the republican debate, and the overall impression I got is that the current stock consists mostly of a bunch of morons with insensible/impossible ideas. Completely cut the commerce, education and .. oh I don't know, some random third department. Pull all troops out of the world, everywhere, and end the fed. 9-9-9. Michelle Bachmann. Really?

Even if any of these contenders won, how on earth will their ideas ever become reality, unless this was election for Dictator and Despot of the USA?

To me, it looks like it's going to be a Romney vs. Obama fight next year. Romney, a moderate, even center left socially. What would change significantly from Obama's style of governance? (except maybe the democrats filibustering the crap out of any legislation that floated up)

So if you're conservative/republican - is anything getting you fired up about the election? Anyone that makes you passionate? Or are you just jaded at this point and are going to sit this one out?

Liberals/Progressives - What do you think? Romney could be a serious contender to Obama - does the prospect worry you? Are you jaded with Obama?

/not a troll post, I have no horse in this race.
 
I'm an anarcho-conservative so I'm going to vote for Chuck Baldwin or write Dr. Ron Paul in if the latter doesn't get the nomination.
 
nixium said:
Even if any of these contenders won, how on earth will their ideas ever become reality, unless this was election for Dictator and Despot of the USA?
Click to expand...

Good question because they likely won't have a congress to help them ram shit through to passage.

Agree though, likely its going to be Romney vs. Obama. Seems like neither side has much to cheer about.
 
sm625 said:
Perry stumbles at every debate. Not as much as Santorum but he's still pretty bad. Its hard to notice because they're all (with one exception, obviously) such pathetic wafflers, too afraid to mention even half the things that need to be cut in order to cure our infection of cancerous government. Bunch of pandering panzies totally beholden to the top 1%. But really who can blame them when the bottom 99% are so stupid.
Click to expand...

ripped from the perry thread
 
I wish I had the luxury to actual vote for somebody instead of vote against the clown that will do the most damage. I may be jaded, but i haven't missed a vote since '74.
 
nixium said:
I watched snippets of the republican debate, and the overall impression I got is that the current stock consists mostly of a bunch of morons with insensible/impossible ideas. Completely cut the commerce, education and .. oh I don't know, some random third department. Pull all troops out of the world, everywhere, and end the fed. 9-9-9. Michelle Bachmann. Really?

Even if any of these contenders won, how on earth will their ideas ever become reality, unless this was election for Dictator and Despot of the USA?
Click to expand...

Agreed on all counts, most of the GOP field are idiots. But then again, he other side can and has done the same thing. Remember Obama doing his King Canute demanding the waves stop impression? You know, saying how after he was elected that's when "the ocean would stop rising and the planet start to heal"? Next to that, cutting a department or two sounds pretty easy to me.
 
I really don't like any of the GOP candidates that are squabbling amongst themselves. . . . that said, i'd vote for anyone else before obama gets my vote
 
The Department of Education, for example, didn't even exist until 1980 and we got along pretty well without it. Arguably education was better back then than it is now with more federal involvement.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but any cabinet level departments (Education, Energy, HHS, and so on) could all be significantly cut back without any approval from Congress. Although I suppose Congress would have to approve discretionary spending, and they could fight the executive on this and refuse to pass it if the executive sent them a budget that effectively defunded the Department of Education and/or other cabinets (would be an interesting twist after all the drama not too long ago about Congress refusing to pass budgets because they didn't cut enough). But mostly it would just take a president with the political willpower to actually address the size of the executive branch and government in general and either make the difficult cuts where he or she has the authority or get Congress to help him or her make the cuts where the executive doesn't have the authority.
 
frostedflakes said:
The Department of Education, for example, didn't even exist until 1980 and we got along pretty well without it. Arguably education was better back then than it is now with more federal involvement.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but any cabinet level departments (Education, Energy, HHS, and so on) could all be significantly cut back without any approval from Congress. Although I suppose Congress would have to approve discretionary spending, and they could fight the executive on this and refuse to pass it if the executive sent them a budget that effectively defunded the Department of Education and/or other cabinets (would be an interesting twist after all the drama not too long ago about Congress refusing to pass budgets because they didn't cut enough). But mostly it would just take a president with the political willpower to actually address the size of the executive branch and government in general and either make the difficult cuts where he or she has the authority or get Congress to help him or her make the cuts where the executive doesn't have the authority.
Click to expand...

Well it just comes from the fact that eliminating the department of education is enormously unpopular with the American people outside of the extreme right. That's why no president will do it... because that's not what America wants done.
 
eskimospy said:
Well it just comes from the fact that eliminating the department of education is enormously unpopular with the American people outside of the extreme right. That's why no president will do it... because that's not what America wants done.
Click to expand...

Except that I would say the large majority of people don't know what the department of education does - the reason no president will do it has nothing to do with its popularity (I would call it "unranked"), but because the opposition party would frame it into a debate of whether we should give up on educating children or keep funding the department. Basically ignore the actual discussion and focus on how to use it to best make your party look good and the other look bad.

If both parties simultaneously agree to do away with the department of education, there will be no populist uprising against the decision. Well, unions would probably throw up a stink, just because they like to throw up a stink every now and then when they are not giving the money they believe they deserve.

(and for the partisan hacks in the crowd, I have made no comment regarding the merits or downfalls of the actual department of education)
 
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cubby1223 said:
Except that I would say the large majority of people don't know what the department of education does - the reason no president will do it is not because it is popular, but because the opposition party would frame it into a debate of whether we should give up on educating children or keep funding the department. Basically ignore the actual debate and turn it into a vote-getter.

(and for the partisan hacks in the crowd, I have made no comment regarding the merits or downfalls of the actual department of education)
Click to expand...

What evidence do you have that the average american has no idea what it does? Regardless of this, the department of education is quite popular in America as a whole, so it's pretty silly to think it would be going anywhere.
 
nixium said:
Even if any of these contenders won, how on earth will their ideas ever become reality, unless this was election for Dictator and Despot of the USA?
Click to expand...

Err, you mean like Obama and Pelosi ramming Obummer care through? "Where does the constitution allow you to do this?" "Are you serious?"

As for people waffling, how does everyone ignore Gingrich? Hypocrite? Yes, with regards to the whole Lewinski/affair deal. Waffling on issues? Please, post specifics.
 
Basicly our system has boiled down to electing whoever makes the best promises during their campaign and then listen to them make excuses of why they can't deliver on those promises for the next four years.
 
RampantAndroid said:
Err, you mean like Obama and Pelosi ramming Obummer care through? "Where does the constitution allow you to do this?" "Are you serious?"

As for people waffling, how does everyone ignore Gingrich? Hypocrite? Yes, with regards to the whole Lewinski/affair deal. Waffling on issues? Please, post specifics.
Click to expand...

Well so long as we're talking about 'ObummercarelollOL', one waffle of 'ol Newt's that I can think of is his former support for a federally enforced individual health care mandate.
 
eskimospy said:
What evidence do you have that the average american has no idea what it does? Regardless of this, the department of education is quite popular in America as a whole, so it's pretty silly to think it would be going anywhere.
Click to expand...

You stupid or something?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-shehori/poll-37-of-americans-unab_b_150933.html
37% of Americans cannot find America on a map

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...ices-says-new-findlawcom-survey-95298909.html
2/3 of Americans cannot name a single U.S. Supreme Court Justice

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/news/webstory/4.4.11.html
2/3 of Americans cannot name the three branches of the U.S. government

You wish me to continue?

Where is your proof that people know what happens within the Department of Education and the effects it has on our educational system? All the evidence out there supports my position, not yours.


And you know it just as much as I know it. But, for some reason you type otherwise. Why? That is the more interesting question 😉 Why do you post things you know is very, very likely to be false?

I say now as my opinion, the department, if popular, is popular primarily because the political parties use it as an election tool.
 
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cubby1223 said:
You stupid or something?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-shehori/poll-37-of-americans-unab_b_150933.html
37% of Americans cannot find America on a map

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...ices-says-new-findlawcom-survey-95298909.html
2/3 of Americans cannot name a single U.S. Supreme Court Justice

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/news/webstory/4.4.11.html
2/3 of Americans cannot name the three branches of the U.S. government

You wish me to continue?

Where is your proof that people know what happens within the Department of Education and the effects it has on our educational system? All the evidence out there supports my position, not yours.


And you know it just as much as I know it. But, for some reason you type otherwise. Why? That is the more interesting question 😉 Why do you post things you know is very, very likely to be false?
Click to expand...

Continue all you want, it won't really change anything.

I don't believe it to be false. I bet if you asked people what the federal department of education did, they would say that it oversaw education for the whole country, which is substantially correct. They don't need to know the specifics, they support the concept.

I mean by your standard American public support for basically any program is worthless.
 
nixium said:
I watched snippets of the republican debate, and the overall impression I got is that the current stock consists mostly of a bunch of morons with insensible/impossible ideas. Completely cut the commerce, education and .. oh I don't know, some random third department. Pull all troops out of the world, everywhere, and end the fed. 9-9-9. Michelle Bachmann. Really?

Even if any of these contenders won, how on earth will their ideas ever become reality, unless this was election for Dictator and Despot of the USA?

To me, it looks like it's going to be a Romney vs. Obama fight next year. Romney, a moderate, even center left socially. What would change significantly from Obama's style of governance? (except maybe the democrats filibustering the crap out of any legislation that floated up)

So if you're conservative/republican - is anything getting you fired up about the election? Anyone that makes you passionate? Or are you just jaded at this point and are going to sit this one out?

Liberals/Progressives - What do you think? Romney could be a serious contender to Obama - does the prospect worry you? Are you jaded with Obama?

/not a troll post, I have no horse in this race.
Click to expand...

They have to be praying that the economy gets worse and that next year the voter will be in "anyone but Obama" mode.
 
cubby1223 said:
You stupid or something?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-shehori/poll-37-of-americans-unab_b_150933.html
37% of Americans cannot find America on a map

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...ices-says-new-findlawcom-survey-95298909.html
2/3 of Americans cannot name a single U.S. Supreme Court Justice

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/news/webstory/4.4.11.html
2/3 of Americans cannot name the three branches of the U.S. government

You wish me to continue?

Where is your proof that people know what happens within the Department of Education and the effects it has on our educational system? All the evidence out there supports my position, not yours.


And you know it just as much as I know it. But, for some reason you type otherwise. Why? That is the more interesting question 😉 Why do you post things you know is very, very likely to be false?

I say now as my opinion, the department, if popular, is popular primarily because the political parties use it as an election tool.
Click to expand...

So by your reasoning, since a majority of the American electorate also don't really understand what happens inside the SEC, DEA, FDA, the Fed, CDC, NSA, FEC, NSF, CBO, EPA, or FEMA, we should get rid of all those agencies, too.
 
shira said:
So by your reasoning, since a majority of the American electorate also don't really understand what happens inside the SEC, DEA, FDA, the Fed, CDC, NSA, FEC, NSF, CBO, EPA, or FEMA, we should get rid of all those agencies, too.
Click to expand...

Good idea. Though, I would probably keep the CDC around.
 
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