A question about progressive scan.

Medellon

Senior member
Feb 13, 2000
812
2
81
I was at a local high-end audio/video store wanting to buy a new DVD player. I was looking for a progressive scan DVD player because I plan on upgrading my T.V. soon and want to take advantage of the higher resolution. The salesman said that if my T.V. has progressive scan capability built-in, I wouldn't need it for the DVD player since the T.V.'s progressive scan unit would probably be superior to the DVD player's. Is this true or do I need a progressive scan DVD player AND a T.V. able to take advantage of it? Thanks.
 

fatbaby

Banned
May 7, 2001
6,427
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You will need both.

A regular tv will not be able to output a progressive scan image from a prog sc dvd player.

An hdtv will not be able to output a high definition image from a non high definition source.

What you need to do is dress up as the kkk, wait for the salesmen to get off work, and throw bricks of $100 bills at him.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
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Originally posted by: Medellon
I was at a local high-end audio/video store wanting to buy a new DVD player. I was looking for a progressive scan DVD player because I plan on upgrading my T.V. soon and want to take advantage of the higher resolution. The salesman said that if my T.V. has progressive scan capability built-in, I wouldn't need it for the DVD player since the T.V.'s progressive scan unit would probably be superior to the DVD player's. Is this true or do I need a progressive scan DVD player AND a T.V. able to take advantage of it? Thanks.

If you plan on getting a progressive scan display (i.e. with hardware deinterlacing) and you ONLY plan to use the DVD player with that display, then he is right, you do not need a progressive scan DVD player. And yes, most HDTVs and projectors have progressive scanning that blows away the crap you get on most DVD players.
 

MustangSVT

Lifer
Oct 7, 2000
11,554
12
81
Originally posted by: Medellon
I was at a local high-end audio/video store wanting to buy a new DVD player. I was looking for a progressive scan DVD player because I plan on upgrading my T.V. soon and want to take advantage of the higher resolution. The salesman said that if my T.V. has progressive scan capability built-in, I wouldn't need it for the DVD player since the T.V.'s progressive scan unit would probably be superior to the DVD player's. Is this true or do I need a progressive scan DVD player AND a T.V. able to take advantage of it? Thanks.


haha.. that's pretty sad.. too bad most salesperson have no clue what they are talking about. even something as simple as that.

U need HDTV to take advantage of Progressive scan ed DVDs .

But normal signals look worse on HDTV than normal TVs.


 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,529
3
76
Originally posted by: fatbaby
You will need both.

A regular tv will not be able to output a progressive scan image from a prog sc dvd player.

An hdtv will not be able to output a high definition image from a non high definition source.

What you need to do is dress up as the kkk, wait for the salesmen to get off work, and throw bricks of $100 bills at him.

Yep, he's right. 99% of salespeople at BestBuy or Circuit City haven't the slightest idea how any of the products they sell work. YEsterday, they were selling washing machines. Today it's DVD players, tomorrow PCs.
rolleye.gif


However, any salesperson at a high-end shop really should know WTF they are talking about! I mean, most people that go in those places drop $25K on a TV and receiver. :Q

The fact that you need a Progressive Scan DVD player AND a receiver with high-bandwith component inputs in order to watch DVDs in Prog Scan is a very basic fact.
 

Medellon

Senior member
Feb 13, 2000
812
2
81
I'm getting conflicting thoughts here guys. Is there a site I could go to to read about this?
 

jdini76

Platinum Member
Mar 16, 2001
2,469
0
0
It's pretty simple if you think about it. the only way a progresve scan video can go to a tv is through component video wires (not to be confused with Composite). If your dvd player isn't progressive scan it most likly will not have component wire outputs. therefore there is no way the HDTV can display a TRUE Progrssive scan picture. The tv may have a built in "converter" that will enhanced an "interlaced" picture, but that is like burning a cassette tape to a cd.
 

EvilYoda

Lifer
Apr 1, 2001
21,200
9
81
Yeah, the salesman had no idea what he was talking about...you need a TV that can handle and display the component input, and a DVD player with the processing to send a progressive scan signal...

No matter what you TV can handle (say, it has a nice built-in Faroudja), if you're only sending it an interlaced signal, it still will never be a true progressive picture.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
1
0
Wow...lot of misinformation here.

Let me make this very clear - the salesman was *gasp* CORRECT.

You do not need two progressive scanners in a system. It's pretty simple really, all progressive scan does is DEinterlace a signal. So if you are getting 480i, the progressive scan (i.e. deinterlacer) will output 480p. If a DVD player does the deinterlacing, it will output a component signal to your TV, which will then bypass its own deinterlacer, and you will end up with the inferior progressive scanning of the DVD player. However, if you have a non-progressive scan DVD player, it will simply output the 480 Interlaced signal to your TV, which if it has pixelworks, faroudja, etc. will then deinterlace the image itself.

So basically, if your TV supports deinterlacing, buying a P.S. DVD player is not only a waste of money in the DVD player, but it is also wasting the superior deinterlacing engine in your TV.

Trust me on this.
 

jdini76

Platinum Member
Mar 16, 2001
2,469
0
0
Originally posted by: Mani
Wow...lot of misinformation here.

Let me make this very clear - the salesman was *gasp* CORRECT.

You do not need two progressive scanners in a system. It's pretty simple really, all progressive scan does is DEinterlace a signal. So if you are getting 480i, the progressive scan (i.e. deinterlacer) will output 480p. If a DVD player does the deinterlacing, it will output a component signal to your TV, which will then bypass its own deinterlacer, and you will end up with the inferior progressive scanning of the DVD player. However, if you have a non-progressive scan DVD player, it will simply output the 480 Interlaced signal to your TV, which if it has pixelworks, faroudja, etc. will then deinterlace the image itself.

So basically, if your TV supports deinterlacing, buying a P.S. DVD player is not only a waste of money in the DVD player, but it is also wasting the superior deinterlacing engine in your TV.

Trust me on this.

Interesting..I understand what you are saying. and based on that I agree. But, if I am reading your post correctly, you will still need component outputs from the DVD player in order for your tv to Deinterlace the video. That is where you find the problem You might be able to find a DVD player that is non-progressive scan yet still has component outputs, but is it worth the risk to choose between 1 or 2 non pro-scan dvd players with component outputs, when you have 30 or 40 pro-scan ones to choose from? I would assume you could turn the pro-scan feature off in the dvd player menus...right?

 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,989
10
81
Originally posted by: jdini76
Originally posted by: Mani
Wow...lot of misinformation here.

Let me make this very clear - the salesman was *gasp* CORRECT.

You do not need two progressive scanners in a system. It's pretty simple really, all progressive scan does is DEinterlace a signal. So if you are getting 480i, the progressive scan (i.e. deinterlacer) will output 480p. If a DVD player does the deinterlacing, it will output a component signal to your TV, which will then bypass its own deinterlacer, and you will end up with the inferior progressive scanning of the DVD player. However, if you have a non-progressive scan DVD player, it will simply output the 480 Interlaced signal to your TV, which if it has pixelworks, faroudja, etc. will then deinterlace the image itself.

So basically, if your TV supports deinterlacing, buying a P.S. DVD player is not only a waste of money in the DVD player, but it is also wasting the superior deinterlacing engine in your TV.

Trust me on this.

Interesting..I understand what you are saying. and based on that I agree. But, if I am reading your post correctly, you will still need component outputs from the DVD player in order for your tv to Deinterlace the video. That is where you find the problem You might be able to find a DVD player that is non-progressive scan yet still has component outputs, but is it worth the risk to choose between 1 or 2 non pro-scan dvd players with component outputs, when you have 30 or 40 pro-scan ones to choose from? I would assume you could turn the pro-scan feature off in the dvd player menus...right?
I believe composite video outs carry 480i signals just fine.
 

dolph

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2001
3,981
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0
ok, now i'm confused.
if you have an hdtv, you *don't* need a progressive scan dvd player? so you'd only want a ps dvd player if you had a regular tv?
 

Kelvrick

Lifer
Feb 14, 2001
18,438
5
81
Whoa, this is starting to confuse me too. We need some definite answers here people! I'm moving out soon and need to electronically furnish my new apartment. I need to know what to get.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
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HAHA! The link was posted.
I get to say this to geeks, a rare thing.
RTFM!!

"There's enormous confusion about whether DVD video is progressive or interlaced. Here's the one true answer: Progressive-source video (such as from film) is usually encoded on DVD as interlaced field pairs that can be re-interleaved by a progressive player to recreate the original progressive video. See 3.8 for further explanation of interlaced and progressive scanning.

You must use a progressive-scan display in order to get the full benefit of a progressive-scan player. However, all progressive players also include interlaced outputs, so you can buy one to use with a standard TV until you upgrade to a progressive TV. (You may have to use a switch on the back of the player to set it to interlaced output.) Since computers use progressive-scan monitors, DVD PCs are by definition progressive-scan players (see 4.1 and 2.12)."
 

EvilYoda

Lifer
Apr 1, 2001
21,200
9
81
You could make this easy and give us an example of a TV and a DVD player, and we'll tell you what your situation is. ;) And Shockwave's right, but I think most people knew that...your DVD player can have the capabilities, but still use it on a "normal" TV, and then just change the options when you get a TV that can correctly display the progressive scan image.

yeesh, I'm starting to confuse myself, trying to explain things on here. It shouldn't be that hard. :)
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
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Look at it like this, just cause your video card supports 1600x1200 @ 90 hertz deosnt mean your monitor does....Get it?
Also, the link provided many posts above had another link to this...
Text
 

dolph

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2001
3,981
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i understand and thought what you said was right shockwave, but it directly contradicts what's been said in this thread so far. based on the first few posts, it appears that the deinterlacing should be left up to the hdtv, and not handled by the dvd player... yes?

:confused:
 

Kelvrick

Lifer
Feb 14, 2001
18,438
5
81
After reading the article, I am more confused and have more questions.

They say that tv's sometimes stretch the progressive into regular 4:3 ratios. Would they do this to a progressive signal from a widescreen tv?

So having a prog scan dvd player hooked into a regular widescreen tv will slightly improve image quality over a regular dvdplayer and widescreen tv?
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
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Originally posted by: dolph
i understand and thought what you said was right shockwave, but it directly contradicts what's been said in this thread so far. based on the first few posts, it appears that the deinterlacing should be left up to the hdtv, and not handled by the dvd player... yes?

:confused:

I personally dont know. Thats why I read the link. That qoute of mine was from the link supplied in about the 5th post in the thread, about PS DVD players. They supplied a few other links in there, which I'm reading as well.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Text

Thats the definitive answer I would go by.

"Q I have been told by one salesman that I need either a progressive scan TV or a progressive scan DVD player, but not both. Is this true?

A At a minimum, you must have a progressive scan TV in order to show progressive scan images. If your DVD player only has interlaced output, the TV will deinterlace it and show it as progressive scan. If you have a progressive scan DVD player, you have a choice of outputting interlaced or progressive to the TV. Either way though, you cannot view progressive scan video unless the TV is progressive scan capable."
 

MustangSVT

Lifer
Oct 7, 2000
11,554
12
81
Originally posted by: Shockwave
Text

Thats the definitive answer I would go by.

"Q I have been told by one salesman that I need either a progressive scan TV or a progressive scan DVD player, but not both. Is this true?

A At a minimum, you must have a progressive scan TV in order to show progressive scan images. If your DVD player only has interlaced output, the TV will deinterlace it and show it as progressive scan. If you have a progressive scan DVD player, you have a choice of outputting interlaced or progressive to the TV. Either way though, you cannot view progressive scan video unless the TV is progressive scan capable."

Are you saying quality of video will be same for

A: HDTV + NON progressive scan DVD
B: HDTV + progressive scan DVD

?

 

DanJ

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
3,509
0
0
Originally posted by: dolph
i understand and thought what you said was right shockwave, but it directly contradicts what's been said in this thread so far. based on the first few posts, it appears that the deinterlacing should be left up to the hdtv, and not handled by the dvd player... yes?

:confused:
It depends on the quality of the progressive scan output from the DVD player. Some are better then others. Just A/B it and see which one you prefer. A major factor in DVD player quality is the quality of its progressive scan output.
 

Kelvrick

Lifer
Feb 14, 2001
18,438
5
81
Originally posted by: Shockwave
Text

Thats the definitive answer I would go by.

"Q I have been told by one salesman that I need either a progressive scan TV or a progressive scan DVD player, but not both. Is this true?

A At a minimum, you must have a progressive scan TV in order to show progressive scan images. If your DVD player only has interlaced output, the TV will deinterlace it and show it as progressive scan. If you have a progressive scan DVD player, you have a choice of outputting interlaced or progressive to the TV. Either way though, you cannot view progressive scan video unless the TV is progressive scan capable."

Damn, I was hoping I could get a cheaper upgrade with the DVD player for some more image quality. Upgrading from a non-HD to an HD is more expensive on a TV.