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A potential Purple Heart sized problem for Kerry with military and veteran voters
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Perknose,
This particular action was contrary to military training. You do not abandon your post, and your fellow soldiers for your personal gain or glory. The Vietnames in question was wounded by a caliber .50 round, (which is always greivous, and often fatal). He risked the lives of his crew by leaving the boat (which now had to remain under fire till Kerry returned) to pursue a critically wounded and unarmed man and kill him. I call this cowardice and gross disregard for his fellow crewman, and should be investigated as an article-15 offense, if not a Court Martial. It was also against common policy, and the rules of engagement.
Only a person blinded, and with little care, or knowledge knowledge of combat tactics, and/or Esprit de Corps could consider this heroic.
This particular action was contrary to military training. You do not abandon your post, and your fellow soldiers for your personal gain or glory. The Vietnames in question was wounded by a caliber .50 round, (which is always greivous, and often fatal). He risked the lives of his crew by leaving the boat (which now had to remain under fire till Kerry returned) to pursue a critically wounded and unarmed man and kill him. I call this cowardice and gross disregard for his fellow crewman, and should be investigated as an article-15 offense, if not a Court Martial. It was also against common policy, and the rules of engagement.
Only a person blinded, and with little care, or knowledge knowledge of combat tactics, and/or Esprit de Corps could consider this heroic.
xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Banned
I thought Willy couldn't serve another term; did I miss something?
xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Banned
I am sure his awards read as such, too....how else are you going to leave 'nam after 4 months with just as much hardware as Audie? Only difference is that I am sure Audie would approve of Memorial Day and all that it stands for.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
perhaps your desperation. everytime you attack kerrys war record, you have to turn a blind eye to the chicken hawk you support.
the vietcong soldier had a b40 rpg. it was powerful enough to take out small tanks. let alone an aluminum unarmored boat. taking out such a weapon would be a priority, even while they were under fire from the other banks. where theres one vc, theres always more, if that guy got away with his weap, its likely he could have passed it onto someone else who could have used it. either way, your just second guessing what he did under fire. these are decisions bush never had to make, because he abused his fathers power to take another mans spot in the guard.
You know whats amazing. Here's a man who served in the most hideous and bloodbath war in modern times for our country. And now because he didn't come back mamed, cripple, blind, or a drug addict his time served is a made a mockery. Its a disgrace. I don't give a damn if he got a scratch from a blade of grass, if he served in Nam and served well he should be respected. Purple Hearts are not given for those who get the biggest injuries, but those who get them and continue to fight. He was wounded or hurt 3 times and now he wasn't hurt bad enough? WTF? Its sad that some of the republicans would even attempt to attack the man's service. As little boy I went to 2 funerals and ended up having 2 cousins who are still messed up in th head, and another who is about as violent as all get out. He was shot twice in Nam. The republican way has always been to not address the issues but muddy them with other things. Bush on pure issues would lose to Kerry easily. So lets muddy the water. But I guess with Bush's sterling "weekend warrior"record they really don't have much choice.
Looks like Kerry is unofficially credited with killing 20 VietCong.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0421041kerry1.html
Rightwingers, do you want some Heinz ketchup to eat your words with?
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0421041kerry1.html
Rightwingers, do you want some Heinz ketchup to eat your words with?
0roo0roo
No Lifer
new to me. all the stupid press ever reports is the rpg vc guy😛
yup, these people who talk of shrapenal wounds as if they are just "paper cuts" to to denigrate his service, and apparent fortune in not being maimed, yet hold their guy to a standard so much lower its absurd. it stinks of the emotional irrational distorted logic of people like terrorists😛
From a photocopy of page 2 of this official Navy Officer Fitness report, from a linkfrom the original post, has this summation:
LT JG KERRY was assigned to this division for only a short time but during that time exhibited all of the traits desired of an officer in a combat environment. He freequently exhibited a high sense of imagination and judgment in planning operations against the enemy in the Mekong Delta. Involved in several enemy initiated fire fights, including an ambush during the Christmas truce, he effectively suppressed enemy fire and is unofficially credited with 20 enemy killed in action. Though relatively new to the PCF he is thoroughly knowledgable of all aspects of his boat and PCF operations. He was instrumental in planning of highly successful Sea Lords Operations. He was cited for his performance during action against the enemy by Commander Task Force in his message 080807Z JAN 69.
NOW we can prepare apples to apples. Let's get one of Bush's fitness reports up here, for a frank and fair comparison!
I found these easy enough:
03012004,
Vietnam veteran Larry J. O?Daniel has today challenged former fellow officer and veteran, John Forbes Kerry to come clean with charges Kerry has made in the past. O?Daniel, a decorated combat veteran and present Director of the National Vietnam and Gulf War Veterans Coalition, served in the legendary Phoenix Program and says that the issue is one that the Senator himself has brought on.
?His attempt to denigrate the service of our incumbent President while this legacy of his hangs on says much about the real issue of this election - Leadership and Character. The Senator from Massachusetts lacks both.?
?Senator John Forbes Kerry is attempting to be our generation?s Vietnam War hero, much the same way his avowed idol, John F. Kennedy was of that generation. Kerry falls short in many ways. His attempt to ride into the White House on the strength of medals for bravery is not enough. As a former officer who served as a combat advisor and participant in a Special Operations program, I know a little bit about integrity, courage, and character. Kerry lacks what it takes to be Commander in Chief.?
?If nominated, Kerry would be an extreme embarrassment to his party. On the surface, he seems to be the exact type of rival needed to run against a popular President with a military background, albeit not in combat. A popular President who proved his courage jockeying supersonic aircraft. On the surface, Kerry would seem to be able to cut into the military vote that has become increasingly one party over the past 30 years.?
?This senator, a JFK from Massachusetts, like the first JFK, is a Naval Officer. However, he has a record which speaks volumes about his current abilities and views. Kerry will both exploit his war record and run from it. His checkerboard past explains his actions today. He has been critical of the way the current war on terrorism has been waged. Inevitably, his criticism is always preceded by media notices of Kerry, decorated Vietnam war veteran. However, thirty three years ago, Kerry charged decorated war veterans with unspeakable crimes. Those charges were false and the Senator knew them to be false.?
Before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April 1971, Kerry asserted he represented veterans, honorably discharged and very highly decorated, who participated in war crimes. These crimes were not isolated incidents, he charged, but crimes committed on a day - to - day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. Crimes that this country made them do. I remind the Senator that former GRU Colonel Stanislav Lunev said, the GRU funded every major anti-Vietnam organization. The Soviet Union spent twice as much money on this effort than they did in supplying weapons to Vietnam. Kerry helped the GRU with their efforts. Their goal was to make the military service in Vietnam a mark of shame. With his help, they succeeded.
Kerry asserted these veterans personally raped women, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned on the power. They cut off limbs; blew up bodies; randomly shot at civilians; razed villages like Ghenghis Khan; shot livestock for fun; poisoned food; and ravaged the Vietnamese countryside. From his personal experience, Kerry asserted that the Vietnamese only wanted to work in rice paddies without our helicopters strafing and napalming them and their villages. Our men died while our allies refused to help and fight. Kerry said we rationalized destroying villages in order to save them; accepted a My Lai; enforced free fire zones by shooting anything that moves. Our GIs falsified body counts while leaders glorified body counts. In a well orchestrated political move, he asked, how do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake? The well rehearsed veteran began his career that day.
A problem arises. Kerry?s testimony was false. These charges were investigated then and since. My challenge as a veteran of one of the main programs Kerry and his colleagues used for the basis of these charges, the Phoenix Program - Prove them or apologize.
Kerry?s widely covered charges largely paralleled that of another highly decorated veteran, LTC Anthony Herbert. Some of the unsubstantiated and uncorroborated accusations of Kerry were almost identical to specific charges leveled by Herbert. Both charged war crimes were ignored, uninvestigated, part of the routine. We?ll get to Herbert in just a second.
The prominence of Kerry and his cohorts, Jane Fonda and group, allowed phonies and wannabes then and now to make false allegations slandering real veterans of real programs, like mine of Phoenix. For example:
- Elton Mazione, claiming Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) credentials, Kerry?s original organization, along with his friends, John Laboon, Eddie Swetz, and Kenneth Van Lesser. They claimed to kill children and remove body parts as part of the notorious Phoenix program. They were neither in Phoenix nor in Vietnam.
- Kerry?s VVAW leader friend from 1971, Al Hubbard, lied about being an officer, Vietnam Veteran, and sustaining war injuries. Michael Harbert, another VVAW crony of Kerry, lied about his Vietnam service.
- Yoshia K. Chee claimed Phoenix operatives routinely resorted to the most hideous forms of torture, threw people out of helicopters, and decapitated prisoners. He was a phony.
- Mike Beamon, an alleged SEAL and Phoenix assassin, was never in the military.
The Senator?s own VVAW and similar groups relied upon people like:
K. Barton Osborn, a Vietnam veteran and testifier of atrocities to Congress. He told of prisoners being thrown out of helicopters, a woman starved to death, a prisoner being killed by a six inch dowel pushed through his ear. Osborn was not in Phoenix, refused to name names, and provided no documentation.
Lieutenants Francis Reitemeyer and Michael J. Cohn. Both sought conscientious objector status because of Phoenix. Reitemeyer testified to being assigned to Phoenix as an adviser and maintain a kill quota of fifty bodies a month. They became famous as My Lai hit the news. Neither served in Vietnam, or in Phoenix. Reitemeyer later denied receiving any assassination training. Both were students at Ft. Holabird when I underwent my intelligence training there.
Many relied upon the specific charges of Herbert, which were publicly aired in this same time frame as that of Senator Kerry, in order to prove their charges. Herbert was highly decorated, apparently corroborating the Senator?s charges. Despite highly specific unit naming charges of some 21 war crimes, the facts of a subsequent investigation contradict both Herbert and Kerry. Overall, this contemporaneous investigation lasted seven months. Investigators located and interviewed 333 personnel located in 31 different states, and six different foreign countries, including Vietnam. Out of the 21 incidents involved in the initial charges by Herbert, only seven charges had sufficient substance to merit action or further investigation. Two of the seven had already been acted upon with justice administered. One ended with an article 15 punishment and one with a general court martial.
Two more of the seven involved Vietnamese versus Vietnamese offenses, outside the scope of American jurisprudence and not necessarily proven. The remaining three, at the time of the DA writing, November 5, 1971, were then pending further action by officers exercising general court martial jurisdiction. In other words, it was being further investigated to see if it warranted charges being filed. This shows atrocities and allegations of atrocities were neither condoned nor swept under the rug.
The Senator allegedly knew from personal experience of atrocities being committed and condoned by officers at all levels of command. He was obligated to report those atrocities. There is no known record of any such report from the Senator. My Lai was not condoned, it was prosecuted. Fellow anti-war activist Daniel Ellsberg, who likewise served in the war zone, belied atrocity charges being more pronounced in Vietnam versus previous wars. The Senator used trumped up allegations from phonies, wannabes, stretchers of the truth to sully the valor, service, and integrity of his fellow veterans to climb a political ladder of success. When sentiments changed, he embraced those same veterans becoming an alleged champion of the Vietnam era. He likewise used phonies to slander some 2000 specific veterans of the Phoenix program like myself. He has never proven one charge.
When challenged last year to repudiate his previous testimony, after I faxed to his office for review, a spokesman there abruptly terminated the call saying if Senator Kerry testified to it, he stands by it. The Senator recently condoned the alleged atrocities, war crimes, committed by a fellow Democratic Senator and Vietnam Veteran, Robert Kerrey. He said the operation should not be investigated because it allegedly happened all the time in Vietnam. Further, on the Sam Donaldson show, Kerry short shirted the program, Phoenix, under which the atrocity allegedly occurred, saying he personally helped conduct similar anti-infrastructure operations, ferrying SEALs. This, apparently is part of the source of the Senator?s alleged first hand knowledge he testified to before.
The Senator, as a former officer, knows his obligations were to avoid participating in war crimes and reporting them when knowledge of them occurred. Instead, the Senator broad brushed veterans of the war as crazed killers forced to be that because of governmental policy. As a US Senator, when faced head on with an allegation that a member of his party, his Senatorial Fraternity, Robert Kerrey helped cut a civilian?s throat and possibly commanded an operation that killed over 20 civilians without provocation, the Senator Kerry reverted to the 1971 allegations that everyone did it. He ignored the formalized eyewitness allegation by a veteran of that operation who belatedly lived up to a responsibility to report a crime. Murder in a war zone has no time limits for investigation nor prosecution.
The Senator, knows the charge is that Kerrey was on a Phoenix mission, like those he self proclaimed participated in, because the Senator and Sam Donaldson discussed that specific aspect on Donaldson?s show. As I watched the Senator?s response from that show, he implied personal knowledge of those Phoenix missions, although he clearly ducked any involvement with Phoenix. No proud Vietnam warrior emerged in that interview.
My challenge is clear. Make the specific charges, times, dates, persons, programs, units involved, of war crimes as outlined in your 1971 testimony. Be specific on your own knowledge of these war crimes. Clear the air about Phoenix, your participation, knowledge, even suspicions. Support the investigation of the war crime allegations of your former colleague. Do not allow his status of being a fellow privileged fraternity member from doing your sworn duty, either now as a Senator, or from that era, where as an officer and gentleman, you claimed personal knowledge of atrocities.
Now for a short time, I want to get personal on those 1971 charges. I served in Vietnam from January 1969 to January 1970. I served in two different Provinces, Go Cong and An Xuyen and three different districts, Hoa Tan, Thoi Binh, and Song Ong Doc. I also served short stints in the Province headquarters to acquaint myself with each new duty post. My perspective of Phoenix is a little broader than most officers.
Concerning your allegations, they are as false as can be. In December 1968, we were told of the two LTs who chose conscientious objector status supposedly because of Phoenix. Each of us were given an opportunity to do likewise if we so chose. None did as none of us had heard any order, any teaching, any reason to suspect that Phoenix was an assassination program. I received my orders to Vietnam at Holabird, having previously been chosen for that duty at Fort Benning prior to finishing Infantry School.
I received orders for Phoenix in Vietnam. I was to go out in the field with my counterparts as an infantry adviser and engage in frequent ground combat. In addition, I was to be an intelligence analyst. Finally, many of us tripled up as Deputy District Senior Advisers as troops were to come home and advisory teams shrank in size.
We never received orders for assassination. To the contrary, we received orders that Phoenix was to be like every other program and civilians respected, the military justice system followed, and Geneva Conventions adhered to strictly. We were to report any violations and if our counterparts participated, we were to cease and attempt to cause our counterparts to cease. We further received an invitation that if after being chosen for Phoenix, we had reservations about our participation in this police activity, we could opt out of the program with no recriminations.
I enforced free fire zones in both Provinces. Before any targets were engaged by the pilots with whom I flew, they had to have my permission as I represented the Vietnamese government in their eyes. That meant I identified the targets as military, even if it was free fire. This I did on several occasions. Sometimes, the other side cooperated and fired first, making my job a lot easier.
I never heard of nor participated in any of the crimes you described. In IV Corps, for the better part of the year I served and until the end of the war, the adviser represented the bulk of Americans present. Contrary to your statement, I spent time in lonely outposts and on ambushes with my counterparts, sometimes being the lone American present. My life was literally in their hands and they never let me down. I utilized Kit Carson Scouts, or former VC as guides. Throughout the war, there is not one recorded instance of these Vietnamese turning on us. A friend of mine, Kiet Van Nguyen earned the Navy Cross, the second highest decoration (had he been an American he would have received the Medal of Honor) for rescuing an American pilot downed near the DMZ. His exploits were part of the movie Bat 21. None of your phonies got to know the Vietnamese personally like those of us who advised them and relied upon them for our support.
Many of us in Phoenix taught English to young students, helped in Civic Action projects, and mentored Vietnamese up and coming officers. We learned about their culture from our counterparts who were ten and twenty years our senior. I remember the beginnings of the charges against Phoenix as I began my tour of duty. I remember your charges that Market Time did not work after I returned. I knew you lied because Market Time forces were part of the Americans I cooperated with. They opened up the interior water lanes so that Vietnamese farmers could get their produce to market without having to be extorted by Viet Cong terrorists. I patiently waited 30 plus years to issue this challenge to you at the right time. This is that time.
Finally, concerning the service of our President. Since when is honorable service in any branch under any condition subject to your approval? In my family, there were five male cousins, all on active duty at the same time. Three of us served in Vietnam at the same time. The other two were Vietnam deferred because of the sole surviving son provisions. Other members of my family served both in wartime and peacetime. We are all veterans. National Guard service is a necessary service and someone has to fill the slot. Reserve time is necessary and someone has to fill the slot. All is honorable. Of the 8.7 million who served in the Vietnam era, are you trying to say that 6.0 million had less than honorable service because they did not serve in country? And in your Navy and Coast Guard, are you depreciating the value of the 600,000 who never came ashore but who saved our skins time in and time out with well placed naval gun fire for those of us on shore? Is that what your concept of service is?
I flew on armed aerial recon with Navy Seawolves and in the back seat of an OV-1 Birddog with a pilot who loved to show off his aerial acrobatics. I skimmed at tree top level full speed with our Huey pilots taking me to some meeting or back and forth between my posts. I know the thrill of flying at subsonic speeds. I know how my stomach turned when the bird dog pilot banked quickly to shoot rocket rounds in support of troops engaged in ground combat below. So I can appreciate the guts it takes to be a jet jockey and I thank God I was never one. Never would I question the President?s courage even if he only flew stateside. He had his job and I had mine.
Once again my challenge to you, if you are up to it either morally or otherwise.
Either itemize those incidents you claim to have knowledge of or apologize to the veterans of Vietnam whose reputations, valor, and integrity you sullied then and now and renounce those charges you then and now refuse to itemize. I make this challenge as a veteran of Vietnam, Phoenix, and as a former fellow officer colleague. Duty - Honor - Country - These are our obligations. You are at a fork in a path. Integrity or disgrace. Your choice.
Larry J. O?Daniel
goldencoastpubling@tds.net
Former CPT MI awarded Combat Infantryman Badge, Vietnam Gallantry Cross with Bronze Star, Vietnam Unit Awards for Gallantry and Civic Action. Current Director National Vietnam and Gulf War Veterans Coalition
Another one:
02292004,
I am a Vietnam veteran and retired Marine. I served as a rifle company commander in Vietnam in 1966, 1967 and 1968, and I know I can speak for the majority of the Marines with whom I served.
Most of these guys are now in their 50s and well integrated into all walks of society. Most also spent complete 13-month tours in Vietnam unless they came home on stretchers or in caskets. And many did.
Presidential candidate John Kerry's service in Vietnam is not the issue. It is his anti-war activities after he came home that, to this day, sticks in the craw of most Vietnam vets - at least the ones I know. While exercising the free speech that so many Americans have fought and died for, he was at worst duped or just terribly insensitive; at best, he was bashing his fellow servicemen while many were still dying in the rice paddies of Vietnam.
At Kerry's request, he was released from active duty early and then joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 23, 1971, Kerry claimed he had been told by returning servicemen that they had "raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam. . . . "
Later it turned out that many of the so-called Vietnam veterans who had provided Kerry this information had not even served in Vietnam while others had not even served in the military at all. Certainly there were atrocities committed in Vietnam and every other war, but most of the guilty were tried and punished.
So Kerry, in exercising his free speech, shot a dagger through the heart of every Vietnam veteran, and that is what we, after all these years, are still mad as hell about. It is not his military service that is in question; it is his terrible judgment.
Recently, I heard a Democrat say, ". . . (P)ersonally, I don't much like Kerry, but I don't doubt what he did in Vietnam. . . ." He obviously was referring to Kerry's honorable and heroic service. I, too, do not doubt what Kerry did while in Vietnam. But can we separate John Kerry the war hero from John Kerry the Vietnam Veterans Against the War protester? In other words, can we mention one without mentioning the other? Well, let's look at it this way. If we had a hero in our local fire department who left that service and became an arsonist, would we refer to this person as a hero or an arsonist or both?
Benedict Arnold was first a hero, then a traitor. How do we remember him now?
John Kerry, who made a dramatic public splash with his anti-war stand, now wraps himself in his Vietnam veteran status.
At each Kerry personal appearance there are several men wearing ball caps with some sort of military logos. Who are these men? One interviewed on TV a few nights ago identified himself as a former member of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and a pal of Kerry. These are the guys whom Kerry likes to call his "Band of Brothers."
He is dreaming if he thinks the majority of Vietnam veterans will support him for president.
Some will and many won't. Here's one who won't.
John Regal lives in Canyon. He retired from the Marine Corps with the rank of lieutenant colonel.
I have many more like these to show the ire of many veterans toward Kerry. Kerry is no soldier. Other than his four or five buddies, he's a liar and a self glorious danger to soldiers everywhere.
03012004,
Vietnam veteran Larry J. O?Daniel has today challenged former fellow officer and veteran, John Forbes Kerry to come clean with charges Kerry has made in the past. O?Daniel, a decorated combat veteran and present Director of the National Vietnam and Gulf War Veterans Coalition, served in the legendary Phoenix Program and says that the issue is one that the Senator himself has brought on.
?His attempt to denigrate the service of our incumbent President while this legacy of his hangs on says much about the real issue of this election - Leadership and Character. The Senator from Massachusetts lacks both.?
?Senator John Forbes Kerry is attempting to be our generation?s Vietnam War hero, much the same way his avowed idol, John F. Kennedy was of that generation. Kerry falls short in many ways. His attempt to ride into the White House on the strength of medals for bravery is not enough. As a former officer who served as a combat advisor and participant in a Special Operations program, I know a little bit about integrity, courage, and character. Kerry lacks what it takes to be Commander in Chief.?
?If nominated, Kerry would be an extreme embarrassment to his party. On the surface, he seems to be the exact type of rival needed to run against a popular President with a military background, albeit not in combat. A popular President who proved his courage jockeying supersonic aircraft. On the surface, Kerry would seem to be able to cut into the military vote that has become increasingly one party over the past 30 years.?
?This senator, a JFK from Massachusetts, like the first JFK, is a Naval Officer. However, he has a record which speaks volumes about his current abilities and views. Kerry will both exploit his war record and run from it. His checkerboard past explains his actions today. He has been critical of the way the current war on terrorism has been waged. Inevitably, his criticism is always preceded by media notices of Kerry, decorated Vietnam war veteran. However, thirty three years ago, Kerry charged decorated war veterans with unspeakable crimes. Those charges were false and the Senator knew them to be false.?
Before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April 1971, Kerry asserted he represented veterans, honorably discharged and very highly decorated, who participated in war crimes. These crimes were not isolated incidents, he charged, but crimes committed on a day - to - day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. Crimes that this country made them do. I remind the Senator that former GRU Colonel Stanislav Lunev said, the GRU funded every major anti-Vietnam organization. The Soviet Union spent twice as much money on this effort than they did in supplying weapons to Vietnam. Kerry helped the GRU with their efforts. Their goal was to make the military service in Vietnam a mark of shame. With his help, they succeeded.
Kerry asserted these veterans personally raped women, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned on the power. They cut off limbs; blew up bodies; randomly shot at civilians; razed villages like Ghenghis Khan; shot livestock for fun; poisoned food; and ravaged the Vietnamese countryside. From his personal experience, Kerry asserted that the Vietnamese only wanted to work in rice paddies without our helicopters strafing and napalming them and their villages. Our men died while our allies refused to help and fight. Kerry said we rationalized destroying villages in order to save them; accepted a My Lai; enforced free fire zones by shooting anything that moves. Our GIs falsified body counts while leaders glorified body counts. In a well orchestrated political move, he asked, how do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake? The well rehearsed veteran began his career that day.
A problem arises. Kerry?s testimony was false. These charges were investigated then and since. My challenge as a veteran of one of the main programs Kerry and his colleagues used for the basis of these charges, the Phoenix Program - Prove them or apologize.
Kerry?s widely covered charges largely paralleled that of another highly decorated veteran, LTC Anthony Herbert. Some of the unsubstantiated and uncorroborated accusations of Kerry were almost identical to specific charges leveled by Herbert. Both charged war crimes were ignored, uninvestigated, part of the routine. We?ll get to Herbert in just a second.
The prominence of Kerry and his cohorts, Jane Fonda and group, allowed phonies and wannabes then and now to make false allegations slandering real veterans of real programs, like mine of Phoenix. For example:
- Elton Mazione, claiming Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) credentials, Kerry?s original organization, along with his friends, John Laboon, Eddie Swetz, and Kenneth Van Lesser. They claimed to kill children and remove body parts as part of the notorious Phoenix program. They were neither in Phoenix nor in Vietnam.
- Kerry?s VVAW leader friend from 1971, Al Hubbard, lied about being an officer, Vietnam Veteran, and sustaining war injuries. Michael Harbert, another VVAW crony of Kerry, lied about his Vietnam service.
- Yoshia K. Chee claimed Phoenix operatives routinely resorted to the most hideous forms of torture, threw people out of helicopters, and decapitated prisoners. He was a phony.
- Mike Beamon, an alleged SEAL and Phoenix assassin, was never in the military.
The Senator?s own VVAW and similar groups relied upon people like:
K. Barton Osborn, a Vietnam veteran and testifier of atrocities to Congress. He told of prisoners being thrown out of helicopters, a woman starved to death, a prisoner being killed by a six inch dowel pushed through his ear. Osborn was not in Phoenix, refused to name names, and provided no documentation.
Lieutenants Francis Reitemeyer and Michael J. Cohn. Both sought conscientious objector status because of Phoenix. Reitemeyer testified to being assigned to Phoenix as an adviser and maintain a kill quota of fifty bodies a month. They became famous as My Lai hit the news. Neither served in Vietnam, or in Phoenix. Reitemeyer later denied receiving any assassination training. Both were students at Ft. Holabird when I underwent my intelligence training there.
Many relied upon the specific charges of Herbert, which were publicly aired in this same time frame as that of Senator Kerry, in order to prove their charges. Herbert was highly decorated, apparently corroborating the Senator?s charges. Despite highly specific unit naming charges of some 21 war crimes, the facts of a subsequent investigation contradict both Herbert and Kerry. Overall, this contemporaneous investigation lasted seven months. Investigators located and interviewed 333 personnel located in 31 different states, and six different foreign countries, including Vietnam. Out of the 21 incidents involved in the initial charges by Herbert, only seven charges had sufficient substance to merit action or further investigation. Two of the seven had already been acted upon with justice administered. One ended with an article 15 punishment and one with a general court martial.
Two more of the seven involved Vietnamese versus Vietnamese offenses, outside the scope of American jurisprudence and not necessarily proven. The remaining three, at the time of the DA writing, November 5, 1971, were then pending further action by officers exercising general court martial jurisdiction. In other words, it was being further investigated to see if it warranted charges being filed. This shows atrocities and allegations of atrocities were neither condoned nor swept under the rug.
The Senator allegedly knew from personal experience of atrocities being committed and condoned by officers at all levels of command. He was obligated to report those atrocities. There is no known record of any such report from the Senator. My Lai was not condoned, it was prosecuted. Fellow anti-war activist Daniel Ellsberg, who likewise served in the war zone, belied atrocity charges being more pronounced in Vietnam versus previous wars. The Senator used trumped up allegations from phonies, wannabes, stretchers of the truth to sully the valor, service, and integrity of his fellow veterans to climb a political ladder of success. When sentiments changed, he embraced those same veterans becoming an alleged champion of the Vietnam era. He likewise used phonies to slander some 2000 specific veterans of the Phoenix program like myself. He has never proven one charge.
When challenged last year to repudiate his previous testimony, after I faxed to his office for review, a spokesman there abruptly terminated the call saying if Senator Kerry testified to it, he stands by it. The Senator recently condoned the alleged atrocities, war crimes, committed by a fellow Democratic Senator and Vietnam Veteran, Robert Kerrey. He said the operation should not be investigated because it allegedly happened all the time in Vietnam. Further, on the Sam Donaldson show, Kerry short shirted the program, Phoenix, under which the atrocity allegedly occurred, saying he personally helped conduct similar anti-infrastructure operations, ferrying SEALs. This, apparently is part of the source of the Senator?s alleged first hand knowledge he testified to before.
The Senator, as a former officer, knows his obligations were to avoid participating in war crimes and reporting them when knowledge of them occurred. Instead, the Senator broad brushed veterans of the war as crazed killers forced to be that because of governmental policy. As a US Senator, when faced head on with an allegation that a member of his party, his Senatorial Fraternity, Robert Kerrey helped cut a civilian?s throat and possibly commanded an operation that killed over 20 civilians without provocation, the Senator Kerry reverted to the 1971 allegations that everyone did it. He ignored the formalized eyewitness allegation by a veteran of that operation who belatedly lived up to a responsibility to report a crime. Murder in a war zone has no time limits for investigation nor prosecution.
The Senator, knows the charge is that Kerrey was on a Phoenix mission, like those he self proclaimed participated in, because the Senator and Sam Donaldson discussed that specific aspect on Donaldson?s show. As I watched the Senator?s response from that show, he implied personal knowledge of those Phoenix missions, although he clearly ducked any involvement with Phoenix. No proud Vietnam warrior emerged in that interview.
My challenge is clear. Make the specific charges, times, dates, persons, programs, units involved, of war crimes as outlined in your 1971 testimony. Be specific on your own knowledge of these war crimes. Clear the air about Phoenix, your participation, knowledge, even suspicions. Support the investigation of the war crime allegations of your former colleague. Do not allow his status of being a fellow privileged fraternity member from doing your sworn duty, either now as a Senator, or from that era, where as an officer and gentleman, you claimed personal knowledge of atrocities.
Now for a short time, I want to get personal on those 1971 charges. I served in Vietnam from January 1969 to January 1970. I served in two different Provinces, Go Cong and An Xuyen and three different districts, Hoa Tan, Thoi Binh, and Song Ong Doc. I also served short stints in the Province headquarters to acquaint myself with each new duty post. My perspective of Phoenix is a little broader than most officers.
Concerning your allegations, they are as false as can be. In December 1968, we were told of the two LTs who chose conscientious objector status supposedly because of Phoenix. Each of us were given an opportunity to do likewise if we so chose. None did as none of us had heard any order, any teaching, any reason to suspect that Phoenix was an assassination program. I received my orders to Vietnam at Holabird, having previously been chosen for that duty at Fort Benning prior to finishing Infantry School.
I received orders for Phoenix in Vietnam. I was to go out in the field with my counterparts as an infantry adviser and engage in frequent ground combat. In addition, I was to be an intelligence analyst. Finally, many of us tripled up as Deputy District Senior Advisers as troops were to come home and advisory teams shrank in size.
We never received orders for assassination. To the contrary, we received orders that Phoenix was to be like every other program and civilians respected, the military justice system followed, and Geneva Conventions adhered to strictly. We were to report any violations and if our counterparts participated, we were to cease and attempt to cause our counterparts to cease. We further received an invitation that if after being chosen for Phoenix, we had reservations about our participation in this police activity, we could opt out of the program with no recriminations.
I enforced free fire zones in both Provinces. Before any targets were engaged by the pilots with whom I flew, they had to have my permission as I represented the Vietnamese government in their eyes. That meant I identified the targets as military, even if it was free fire. This I did on several occasions. Sometimes, the other side cooperated and fired first, making my job a lot easier.
I never heard of nor participated in any of the crimes you described. In IV Corps, for the better part of the year I served and until the end of the war, the adviser represented the bulk of Americans present. Contrary to your statement, I spent time in lonely outposts and on ambushes with my counterparts, sometimes being the lone American present. My life was literally in their hands and they never let me down. I utilized Kit Carson Scouts, or former VC as guides. Throughout the war, there is not one recorded instance of these Vietnamese turning on us. A friend of mine, Kiet Van Nguyen earned the Navy Cross, the second highest decoration (had he been an American he would have received the Medal of Honor) for rescuing an American pilot downed near the DMZ. His exploits were part of the movie Bat 21. None of your phonies got to know the Vietnamese personally like those of us who advised them and relied upon them for our support.
Many of us in Phoenix taught English to young students, helped in Civic Action projects, and mentored Vietnamese up and coming officers. We learned about their culture from our counterparts who were ten and twenty years our senior. I remember the beginnings of the charges against Phoenix as I began my tour of duty. I remember your charges that Market Time did not work after I returned. I knew you lied because Market Time forces were part of the Americans I cooperated with. They opened up the interior water lanes so that Vietnamese farmers could get their produce to market without having to be extorted by Viet Cong terrorists. I patiently waited 30 plus years to issue this challenge to you at the right time. This is that time.
Finally, concerning the service of our President. Since when is honorable service in any branch under any condition subject to your approval? In my family, there were five male cousins, all on active duty at the same time. Three of us served in Vietnam at the same time. The other two were Vietnam deferred because of the sole surviving son provisions. Other members of my family served both in wartime and peacetime. We are all veterans. National Guard service is a necessary service and someone has to fill the slot. Reserve time is necessary and someone has to fill the slot. All is honorable. Of the 8.7 million who served in the Vietnam era, are you trying to say that 6.0 million had less than honorable service because they did not serve in country? And in your Navy and Coast Guard, are you depreciating the value of the 600,000 who never came ashore but who saved our skins time in and time out with well placed naval gun fire for those of us on shore? Is that what your concept of service is?
I flew on armed aerial recon with Navy Seawolves and in the back seat of an OV-1 Birddog with a pilot who loved to show off his aerial acrobatics. I skimmed at tree top level full speed with our Huey pilots taking me to some meeting or back and forth between my posts. I know the thrill of flying at subsonic speeds. I know how my stomach turned when the bird dog pilot banked quickly to shoot rocket rounds in support of troops engaged in ground combat below. So I can appreciate the guts it takes to be a jet jockey and I thank God I was never one. Never would I question the President?s courage even if he only flew stateside. He had his job and I had mine.
Once again my challenge to you, if you are up to it either morally or otherwise.
Either itemize those incidents you claim to have knowledge of or apologize to the veterans of Vietnam whose reputations, valor, and integrity you sullied then and now and renounce those charges you then and now refuse to itemize. I make this challenge as a veteran of Vietnam, Phoenix, and as a former fellow officer colleague. Duty - Honor - Country - These are our obligations. You are at a fork in a path. Integrity or disgrace. Your choice.
Larry J. O?Daniel
goldencoastpubling@tds.net
Former CPT MI awarded Combat Infantryman Badge, Vietnam Gallantry Cross with Bronze Star, Vietnam Unit Awards for Gallantry and Civic Action. Current Director National Vietnam and Gulf War Veterans Coalition
Another one:
02292004,
I am a Vietnam veteran and retired Marine. I served as a rifle company commander in Vietnam in 1966, 1967 and 1968, and I know I can speak for the majority of the Marines with whom I served.
Most of these guys are now in their 50s and well integrated into all walks of society. Most also spent complete 13-month tours in Vietnam unless they came home on stretchers or in caskets. And many did.
Presidential candidate John Kerry's service in Vietnam is not the issue. It is his anti-war activities after he came home that, to this day, sticks in the craw of most Vietnam vets - at least the ones I know. While exercising the free speech that so many Americans have fought and died for, he was at worst duped or just terribly insensitive; at best, he was bashing his fellow servicemen while many were still dying in the rice paddies of Vietnam.
At Kerry's request, he was released from active duty early and then joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 23, 1971, Kerry claimed he had been told by returning servicemen that they had "raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam. . . . "
Later it turned out that many of the so-called Vietnam veterans who had provided Kerry this information had not even served in Vietnam while others had not even served in the military at all. Certainly there were atrocities committed in Vietnam and every other war, but most of the guilty were tried and punished.
So Kerry, in exercising his free speech, shot a dagger through the heart of every Vietnam veteran, and that is what we, after all these years, are still mad as hell about. It is not his military service that is in question; it is his terrible judgment.
Recently, I heard a Democrat say, ". . . (P)ersonally, I don't much like Kerry, but I don't doubt what he did in Vietnam. . . ." He obviously was referring to Kerry's honorable and heroic service. I, too, do not doubt what Kerry did while in Vietnam. But can we separate John Kerry the war hero from John Kerry the Vietnam Veterans Against the War protester? In other words, can we mention one without mentioning the other? Well, let's look at it this way. If we had a hero in our local fire department who left that service and became an arsonist, would we refer to this person as a hero or an arsonist or both?
Benedict Arnold was first a hero, then a traitor. How do we remember him now?
John Kerry, who made a dramatic public splash with his anti-war stand, now wraps himself in his Vietnam veteran status.
At each Kerry personal appearance there are several men wearing ball caps with some sort of military logos. Who are these men? One interviewed on TV a few nights ago identified himself as a former member of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and a pal of Kerry. These are the guys whom Kerry likes to call his "Band of Brothers."
He is dreaming if he thinks the majority of Vietnam veterans will support him for president.
Some will and many won't. Here's one who won't.
John Regal lives in Canyon. He retired from the Marine Corps with the rank of lieutenant colonel.
I have many more like these to show the ire of many veterans toward Kerry. Kerry is no soldier. Other than his four or five buddies, he's a liar and a self glorious danger to soldiers everywhere.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
scared to post the sources for your standard stampley smear letters? gotta love the appeal to authority to cover lies and absurd accusations, favorite sampley tactic.
of which McCain has this to say
"I strongly caution reporters who may be contacted by or are interested in Mr. Ted Sampley and the various organizations he claims to represent, and his opinions on the subject of Senator Kerry, or any subject for that matter, to investigate thoroughly Mr. Sampley's background and history of spreading outrageous slander and other disreputable behavior before inadvertently lending him or his allegations any credibility.
"I am well familiar with Mr. Sampley, and I know him to be one of the most despicable people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. I consider him a fraud who preys on the hopes of family members of missing servicemen for his own profit. He is dishonorable, an enemy of the truth, and despite his claims, he does not speak for or represent the views of all but a few veterans. The many veterans I know would think it a disgrace to be considered a comrade or supporter of Ted Sampley."
he after all led a bunch of vietnam vets against McCain in 2000 claiming he only survived as a pow by being a vc collaborator. this sampley now runs the vietnam vets against kerry organization now😛
if kerry is benidict arnold, there are no words to describe the scum called bush😛
of which McCain has this to say
"I strongly caution reporters who may be contacted by or are interested in Mr. Ted Sampley and the various organizations he claims to represent, and his opinions on the subject of Senator Kerry, or any subject for that matter, to investigate thoroughly Mr. Sampley's background and history of spreading outrageous slander and other disreputable behavior before inadvertently lending him or his allegations any credibility.
"I am well familiar with Mr. Sampley, and I know him to be one of the most despicable people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. I consider him a fraud who preys on the hopes of family members of missing servicemen for his own profit. He is dishonorable, an enemy of the truth, and despite his claims, he does not speak for or represent the views of all but a few veterans. The many veterans I know would think it a disgrace to be considered a comrade or supporter of Ted Sampley."
he after all led a bunch of vietnam vets against McCain in 2000 claiming he only survived as a pow by being a vc collaborator. this sampley now runs the vietnam vets against kerry organization now😛
if kerry is benidict arnold, there are no words to describe the scum called bush😛
Oh... I don't know. In the same venue the name Major General Charles Lee springs to mind.
PS:
No direct relation to the Robert E. Lee family, as far as I know.
BrooBroo,
The names of the authors are at the bottom of their statements. You can check the facts yoursef.
As far as Sampley... his war with McCain goes waaaay back. Although he is slime, and not a very nice person, neither is McCain. I find that the war between McCain and Sampley is a personal one, and any "facts" stated by Sampley about McCain, or McCain against Sampley should be taken into consideration. The Brouhaha started back when Sampley was pushing for the return of POW/MIA's, at a crucial time for McCain, because McCain was pushing (along with Sen. John Kerry), for a large trade normalization deal with Viet-Nam. Sampley argued tha doing this would remove any chance of returning possible POW's or remains. McCain argued that Sampley knew nothing about Viet-Nam, and stood upon his well-known POW soapbox. Sampley retorted that McCain had little, if any proof of his supposed treatment while in captivity. The relationship between the two deteriorated from there. Sampley WAS later successful in returning the remains in question (the remains that Kerry and McCain insinuated were not there), and the normalization of trade agreement tanked.
The names of the authors are at the bottom of their statements. You can check the facts yoursef.
As far as Sampley... his war with McCain goes waaaay back. Although he is slime, and not a very nice person, neither is McCain. I find that the war between McCain and Sampley is a personal one, and any "facts" stated by Sampley about McCain, or McCain against Sampley should be taken into consideration. The Brouhaha started back when Sampley was pushing for the return of POW/MIA's, at a crucial time for McCain, because McCain was pushing (along with Sen. John Kerry), for a large trade normalization deal with Viet-Nam. Sampley argued tha doing this would remove any chance of returning possible POW's or remains. McCain argued that Sampley knew nothing about Viet-Nam, and stood upon his well-known POW soapbox. Sampley retorted that McCain had little, if any proof of his supposed treatment while in captivity. The relationship between the two deteriorated from there. Sampley WAS later successful in returning the remains in question (the remains that Kerry and McCain insinuated were not there), and the normalization of trade agreement tanked.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
you should watch who you get into bed with.
Ted Sampley married while he was in Okinawa. He brought his bride to the states and they had a daughter. Ted's wife developed kidney failure and at this crucial time in her life he abandoned her and his daughter. He rarely paid child support, and moved in with a woman and her children. Her kids were in class with his daughter. This story is meaningful because Ted has harped for years about the way Senator McCain "left his wife when she became a cripple following a car accident, and paid her no honor for the time she waited for his return as a POW". Two faced.
His concern for fellow veterans is horrific. He had an affair with (i withheld the name) of Wilmington, NC (a local news personality) who was then married to Scott F. (last name withheld by me), a friend of Ted's. Scott was a return Vet and amputee.
Ted Sampley has used his service in Vietnam to exploit teenage girls. In the late 80's he was repeatedly invited to speak at Kinston High School, Kinston, NC to share the history of Vietnam and talk about the POW/MIA issue. Instead he used this and a venue to meet underage girls, some he even hired for his t-shirt printing business. Here he met two underage girls and both girls under the age of 18 had affairs with Ted Sampley. Ms. S. actually thought she had become pregnant by Ted.
In addition, to ensure his interests were always printed in The Kinston Free Press, Ted had a lengthy affair with this friend Bruce's fiancée. Her name was (name withheld) and she was engaged to (name withheld) the owner of The (business name withheld by me) in Kinston, NC.
Ted Sampley has played on the feelings of many family members and concerned citizens over the years in the POW issue. He the founder of Homecoming II to secure their organization when she and her husband parted ways. He used another womans emotions for years to obtain her monies and energies for the POW issue. He used the (name withheld by me) sisters (3 of them) for years to have them perform radical protests. Between the three of them there were many arrests, being thrown out of Thailand, and an affair with a married woman (name witheld by me)
Probably his most public use of a POW/MIA family member was his second wife (name withheld by me). He had a five year affair with her while she was married and he was living with a woman. When he learned that she was pregnant with their son, he married her to save face in the Veteran Community but had no plans to stay married to her. He had an affair with (name witheld by me) (an under age teenager that was living in the Homecoming II House outside of DC) while she was pregnant and waiting to see if they would marry. During her pregnancy he gave her a black eye and nearly broke her nose. The night their son was born, he was else where again having another affair with a young teenager.
This marriage only lasted two years, as Robin finally left the brute, but to this day, Ted Sampley continues to capitalize on his ex father in law. All his magazines and news letters spout the name of Robert (last name withheld by me). Every opportunity he gets he takes their son to Washington and using him to help market materials for the POW/MIA issue. If the man really cared about Robert (name withheld by me), one would think that he might have better cared for his daughter, Robin.
Recently, Robin took Ted to court to force him to return their son to her. He had promised her that following 5th grade their son could complete 6 - 12 grade in her care. Ted knowingly took their son after the 2nd grade, planning to never return him. The judge in the case had to rule in Mr. Sampley's favor because NC recognizes what is called defacto. In other words because Robin had allowed her son to be him for 4 years during the school week, Ted already had possession. Unless she could prove that her son was being sexually, mentally or physically abused, she could not get him back. She spent nearly $23,000.00 and lost. In her case she was able to show that Ted had no income, an unfit residence, no transportation, was diligent on numerous bills and loans, and that most of the time their son was in the care of yet ANOTHER woman (name withheld) and her entire family that Ted has been using for over ten years now, but has refused to marry.
Throughout his history of abuse Ted has used a long list of people to help further his causes, most of them in the public arena including writers, reporters, family members, congressional aides, Congress Men and other veterans. The following is a small list of the people he has manipulated; including congressmen and bussiness owners that I withheld but will provide to anybody interested) and so many hundreds of others that have sat mesmerized by this twisted man and still don't realize the pawn they have been in his self promoting campaign.
I have been researching Ted Sampley in great detail and its not a pretty picture. He's hardly in a position to be throwing stones at John f. Kerry.
Posted by Grouchy at 08:16 PM | Comments (1) | TrackBack --http://www.politicalpuzzle.org/archives/2004_02_18.html - Show Bush the Door, in "2004" ! Elect John Kerry President of the U.S.A. ! ~TOM~ 101st Airborne Div. ~ Americal Div. D Troop 1/1 Cav. RVN
scum of the highest order
Ted Sampley married while he was in Okinawa. He brought his bride to the states and they had a daughter. Ted's wife developed kidney failure and at this crucial time in her life he abandoned her and his daughter. He rarely paid child support, and moved in with a woman and her children. Her kids were in class with his daughter. This story is meaningful because Ted has harped for years about the way Senator McCain "left his wife when she became a cripple following a car accident, and paid her no honor for the time she waited for his return as a POW". Two faced.
His concern for fellow veterans is horrific. He had an affair with (i withheld the name) of Wilmington, NC (a local news personality) who was then married to Scott F. (last name withheld by me), a friend of Ted's. Scott was a return Vet and amputee.
Ted Sampley has used his service in Vietnam to exploit teenage girls. In the late 80's he was repeatedly invited to speak at Kinston High School, Kinston, NC to share the history of Vietnam and talk about the POW/MIA issue. Instead he used this and a venue to meet underage girls, some he even hired for his t-shirt printing business. Here he met two underage girls and both girls under the age of 18 had affairs with Ted Sampley. Ms. S. actually thought she had become pregnant by Ted.
In addition, to ensure his interests were always printed in The Kinston Free Press, Ted had a lengthy affair with this friend Bruce's fiancée. Her name was (name withheld) and she was engaged to (name withheld) the owner of The (business name withheld by me) in Kinston, NC.
Ted Sampley has played on the feelings of many family members and concerned citizens over the years in the POW issue. He the founder of Homecoming II to secure their organization when she and her husband parted ways. He used another womans emotions for years to obtain her monies and energies for the POW issue. He used the (name withheld by me) sisters (3 of them) for years to have them perform radical protests. Between the three of them there were many arrests, being thrown out of Thailand, and an affair with a married woman (name witheld by me)
Probably his most public use of a POW/MIA family member was his second wife (name withheld by me). He had a five year affair with her while she was married and he was living with a woman. When he learned that she was pregnant with their son, he married her to save face in the Veteran Community but had no plans to stay married to her. He had an affair with (name witheld by me) (an under age teenager that was living in the Homecoming II House outside of DC) while she was pregnant and waiting to see if they would marry. During her pregnancy he gave her a black eye and nearly broke her nose. The night their son was born, he was else where again having another affair with a young teenager.
This marriage only lasted two years, as Robin finally left the brute, but to this day, Ted Sampley continues to capitalize on his ex father in law. All his magazines and news letters spout the name of Robert (last name withheld by me). Every opportunity he gets he takes their son to Washington and using him to help market materials for the POW/MIA issue. If the man really cared about Robert (name withheld by me), one would think that he might have better cared for his daughter, Robin.
Recently, Robin took Ted to court to force him to return their son to her. He had promised her that following 5th grade their son could complete 6 - 12 grade in her care. Ted knowingly took their son after the 2nd grade, planning to never return him. The judge in the case had to rule in Mr. Sampley's favor because NC recognizes what is called defacto. In other words because Robin had allowed her son to be him for 4 years during the school week, Ted already had possession. Unless she could prove that her son was being sexually, mentally or physically abused, she could not get him back. She spent nearly $23,000.00 and lost. In her case she was able to show that Ted had no income, an unfit residence, no transportation, was diligent on numerous bills and loans, and that most of the time their son was in the care of yet ANOTHER woman (name withheld) and her entire family that Ted has been using for over ten years now, but has refused to marry.
Throughout his history of abuse Ted has used a long list of people to help further his causes, most of them in the public arena including writers, reporters, family members, congressional aides, Congress Men and other veterans. The following is a small list of the people he has manipulated; including congressmen and bussiness owners that I withheld but will provide to anybody interested) and so many hundreds of others that have sat mesmerized by this twisted man and still don't realize the pawn they have been in his self promoting campaign.
I have been researching Ted Sampley in great detail and its not a pretty picture. He's hardly in a position to be throwing stones at John f. Kerry.
Posted by Grouchy at 08:16 PM | Comments (1) | TrackBack --http://www.politicalpuzzle.org/archives/2004_02_18.html - Show Bush the Door, in "2004" ! Elect John Kerry President of the U.S.A. ! ~TOM~ 101st Airborne Div. ~ Americal Div. D Troop 1/1 Cav. RVN
scum of the highest order
[To quote myself,
"Although he is slime, and not a very nice person, neither is McCain."
Like I said. He's not a good person. I do fail to see how a marital dispute, and philandering all unproven make any difference in the McCain feud. If that is the case then I hope you judge certain high ranking members of congress accordingly, for doing the exact same thing
"Although he is slime, and not a very nice person, neither is McCain."
Like I said. He's not a good person. I do fail to see how a marital dispute, and philandering all unproven make any difference in the McCain feud. If that is the case then I hope you judge certain high ranking members of congress accordingly, for doing the exact same thing
Siddhartha
Lifer
Hmmmm, Kerry served in Viet Nam, got medals, and saved someone's life. People are locking up on if he was wounded enough to deserved one of three Purple Hearts.
What did GWB do in the war?
If GWB supporters are willing to overlook GWB's National Guard service how can they lock up on one Purple Heart out of three?
What did GWB do in the war?
If GWB supporters are willing to overlook GWB's National Guard service how can they lock up on one Purple Heart out of three?
UltraQuiet
Banned
I have little use for Kerry's politics but to try and criticize his military record, especially his combat record, is nothing more than desperate idiocy. The man is a highly decorated war hero. Period. End of story.
What did GWB do in the war?
If GWB supporters are willing to overlook GWB's National Guard service how can they lock up on one Purple Heart out of three?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush was not in the war, I disagree with a lot of things Bush has done but he did put in for nam but his unit was not called up to go, You can not just go to war, I see nothing wrong with his natonal guard service or anyone else that served in the guard, Also I did not criticize Kerry's military record, I criticized the lies he told about the men that served in nam
If GWB supporters are willing to overlook GWB's National Guard service how can they lock up on one Purple Heart out of three?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush was not in the war, I disagree with a lot of things Bush has done but he did put in for nam but his unit was not called up to go, You can not just go to war, I see nothing wrong with his natonal guard service or anyone else that served in the guard, Also I did not criticize Kerry's military record, I criticized the lies he told about the men that served in nam
0roo0roo
No Lifer
which would be a good arguement if bush had not gone into the guard to avoid the draft. he was so desperate and unqualified he had to use his fathers power to jump him ahead of others, forcing another man to be drafted in his place. do not mistake the guard of today for the guard of the past, which was called the champagn service for a reason. it was there to protect europe against the soviets and nothing else, and well, he flew an obsolete plane to boot.
xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Banned
I agree...those lazy guardsmen are worthless; Russia would have been a better option, I guess.
which would be a good arguement if bush had not gone into the guard to avoid the draft. he was so desperate and unqualified he had to use his fathers power to jump him ahead of others, forcing another man to be drafted in his place. do not mistake the guard of today for the guard of the past, which was called the champagn service for a reason. it was there to protect europe against the soviets and nothing else, and well, he flew an obsolete plane to boot.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gone in the air guard to avoid the draft, Forcing other man to be drafted in his place, Do not mistake the guard of today for the guard of the past and he flew obsolete planes to boot, Well Oroo Oroo I can see you were serving your part in nam to know all of this but you have a few things wrong, One I know I won't get all this right but will try to do the best I can, I think there was about 8 or 9 national guard units called up for nam and I don't know how many air guard units, The Indiana guard lost the most men I think, So forcing another man to be drafted in his place is bull, If I am not worng Bush flew F-102's and F-106's, They were not obsolete at the time and if needed they would had him in another plane if they had needed his unit in nam at that time, I was there to
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gone in the air guard to avoid the draft, Forcing other man to be drafted in his place, Do not mistake the guard of today for the guard of the past and he flew obsolete planes to boot, Well Oroo Oroo I can see you were serving your part in nam to know all of this but you have a few things wrong, One I know I won't get all this right but will try to do the best I can, I think there was about 8 or 9 national guard units called up for nam and I don't know how many air guard units, The Indiana guard lost the most men I think, So forcing another man to be drafted in his place is bull, If I am not worng Bush flew F-102's and F-106's, They were not obsolete at the time and if needed they would had him in another plane if they had needed his unit in nam at that time, I was there to
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