A plug for socialism

[Zebo]

I'm no doctor but all those people seem to need medication.

Seriously you mean I have to show up at a certain time to get paid?

 

[Phokus]

Socialism in sports make sports flat out suck.

You end up with owners who put crappy products onto the field year in and year out because they make money regardless of a teams performance.

Are you fucking kidding me? "Socialism" is the only reason why the NFL is doing so well. Leagues like the MLB are fucking awful because teams like the Yankees can outspend everyone else and get all the best players.

 

[Genx87]

Ask Alan Greenspan, he's the one who ran the markets and apologized after the collapse for going too far with deregulation and insisting the markets could regulate themselves. It only takes one bullet to kill someone and obviously he forget the gun was loaded.

I am asking you. You made the claim. I am curious what you have to back it up.

 

[wuliheron]

I am asking you. You made the claim. I am curious what you have to back it up.

What? Alan Greenspan's word isn't good enough for you? If not then I'm afraid anything I can say is certainly not going to convince you.

 

[sao123]

Hahahaha, the NFL is socialist? I suppose, if you consider that the NFL siphons massive amounts of money away from the taxpayer and awards it to themselves in the form of free stadiums, then yes it is socialist.

so... if you compare the NFL with MLB... one is decidedly socialist based...and successful... the other... isnt.
Remarkably as other leagues move towards the nfl model, their product has improved as well... cough *NHL*

NFL - most successful league
Revenue sharing between competition leaves no franchise left behind
Salary Floors for top end employees & Salary Floors for low end employees
Profits benefit the entire league, not single teams.
NFL will go strong for a long time, and may grow to add more teams.


Baseball - least successful league
No salary cap & limited revenue sharing
Major disparity between have's and have not's
Profits benefit single teams, not the league.
Will probably contract and may eliminate several teams.

 

[Genx87]

What? Alan Greenspan's word isn't good enough for you? If not then I'm afraid anything I can say is certainly not going to convince you.

In other words you are just regurgitating some talking point about deregulation is bad. But really havent a clue what has and hasnt been deregulated.

 

[wuliheron]

In other words you are just regurgitating some talking point about deregulation is bad. But really havent a clue what has and hasnt been deregulated.

In other words I refuse to argue the issue with you specifically. For that matter I also make it a point to never argue theology with born again Christians. Call me crazy but it just seems like a waste of time.

 

[Zebo]

Would you dumb mother fuckers learn the terms before talking? Seriously socialism is workers controlling means of production (look at video even that retarded deadbeat knows)

 

[wuliheron]

Would you dumb mother fuckers learn the terms before talking? Seriously socialism is workers controlling means of production (look at video even that retarded deadbeat knows)

Sorry, but I prefer to use the dictionary rather then invent private languages.

so·cial·ism   
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

 

[HomerJS]

I think if you're going to make a call for socialism, I advise against using a username and avatar based on a cartoon character well-known for utter laziness and stupidity.

On second thought, never mind. Please proceed.

The fact that I said I'm not calling for socialism seems to belie your point. I used socialism in the title because so many people here misuse the term. Usually in the context of putting down the President.

As far as lazy and stupid, you forgot funny.

 

[Genx87]

In other words I refuse to argue the issue with you specifically. For that matter I also make it a point to never argue theology with born again Christians. Call me crazy but it just seems like a waste of time.

Taking your ball home eh?

 

[BoberFett]

so... if you compare the NFL with MLB... one is decidedly socialist based...and successful... the other... isnt.
Remarkably as other leagues move towards the nfl model, their product has improved as well... cough *NHL*

NFL - most successful league
Revenue sharing between competition leaves no franchise left behind
Salary Floors for top end employees & Salary Floors for low end employees
Profits benefit the entire league, not single teams.
NFL will go strong for a long time, and may grow to add more teams.


Baseball - least successful league
No salary cap & limited revenue sharing
Major disparity between have's and have not's
Profits benefit single teams, not the league.
Will probably contract and may eliminate several teams.

None of which has anything to do with my point that the only reason pro-sports exist is because they rely on outside money to fund it because by themselves they would not be sustainable. So yes, it is like socialism (and modern US "capitalism") in that it's a complete failure of economics.

 

[wuliheron]

Taking your ball home eh?

Oh, I'm still here. I just refuse to throw it to you.

 

[wuliheron]

The fact that I said I'm not calling for socialism seems to belie your point. I used socialism in the title because so many people here misuse the term. Usually in the context of putting down the President.

As far as lazy and stupid, you forgot funny.

There are debates to this day as to what constitutes a socialist government with most agreeing that it must own at least some of the fundamental industries necessary for a modern economy such as the chemical industry or electric industry. By this definition the US is not a socialist country, but redistribution of wealth using things like social security and the national healthcare system are definitely socialist agendas. To deny this is foolish.

 

[HomerJS]

There are debates to this day as to what constitutes a socialist government with most agreeing that it must own at least some of the fundamental industries necessary for a modern economy such as the chemical industry or electric industry. By this definition the US is not a socialist country, but redistribution of wealth using things like social security and the national healthcare system are definitely socialist agendas. To deny this is foolish.

I would suggest to you the biggest redistrubution of wealth in history occurred from the middle class to the rich during the infamous bank bailouts of 2008. That's not reverse socialism, is it?

Raw capitalism has a lot of rough edges we have learned to smooth out over the years. It allows you to roll into town after a hurricane charging $50/lb for ice because supply and demand dictates it. It's called compassion.

It was determined to create a retirement system for the betterment of the country instead of by todays estimates keeping 40% of elderly Americans out of poverty.

The gap between the rich and poor is continuing to widen. The top 400 people in the US make more then the bottom 50%. Yeah I know those 400 people just all work so much harder then the other 100 million.

 

[wuliheron]

I would suggest to you the biggest redistrubution of wealth in history occurred from the middle class to the rich during the infamous bank bailouts of 2008. That's not reverse socialism, is it?

That's called corruption or, at the very least, incompetence and occurs in socialist governments as well as capitalist ones. There's an ancient Chinese saying, "Shit happens".

Raw capitalism has a lot of rough edges we have learned to smooth out over the years. It allows you to roll into town after a hurricane charging $50/lb for ice because supply and demand dictates it. It's called compassion.

It was determined to create a retirement system for the betterment of the country instead of by todays estimates keeping 40% of elderly Americans out of poverty.

The gap between the rich and poor is continuing to widen. The top 400 people in the US make more then the bottom 50%. Yeah I know those 400 people just all work so much harder then the other 100 million.

So what?

Americans keep insisting on voting for all these lawyers taking "contributions" from the wealthy, corporations, and special interest groups. You might as well complain that a drug addict chooses to ruin their own life and risk death. You can complain that the drug dealer should be in prison or the drug addict should be in rehab, but in this case the drug dealer owns the prisons and rehabs. The best you can hope for is that the addict starts to realize they don't have to take the drugs anymore and keep suggesting this alternative without making them choose to ignore you.

 

[charrison]

Ok I'm not advocating we adopt socialism in this country. Besides most people don't really know what it is. Just getting my foot in the door. This is an analysis of the plight of the middle class and why a little sharing of the wealth would be good for this country. Using the example of the National Football League, a highly sucessful organization that most people consider a 100% all American patriotic product.

Cleverly executed by Bill Maher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Paf9h3F25s

Now I know I'm asking for the impossible but I'll do it anyway. Comment on the content of what Bill said and try not to devolve into name calling.

NFL inequality worse than general population.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2010/10/rising-income-inequality-in-nfl.html

 

[bamacre]

The fact that I said I'm not calling for socialism seems to belie your point. I used socialism in the title because so many people here misuse the term. Usually in the context of putting down the President.

As far as lazy and stupid, you forgot funny.

Aww, I was just kiddin'. I loved the Simpsons.

 

[ProfJohn]

I would suggest to you the biggest redistribution of wealth in history occurred from the middle class to the rich during the infamous bank bailouts of 2008. That's not reverse socialism, is it?

You need to work on your talking points.

The bank 'bailout' cost very little money when it was all said it done. We didn't 'bailout' the banks, we just loaned them some money that most of them paid back.

The bigger redistribution happened when we bailed out GM and Chrysler or the countless billions sent to union dominated industries, such as construction.

 

[bamacre]

Raw capitalism has a lot of rough edges we have learned to smooth out over the years.

We haven't learned shit. This "third way" has led us from capitalism all the way to fascism. And we are hurting tremendously because of it.

 

[bamacre]

The bank 'bailout' cost very little money when it was all said it done. We didn't 'bailout' the banks, we just loaned them some money that most of them paid back.

It cost us a lot more than money. And it certainly isn't all said and done. We propped up the least efficient segment of our entire economy. Think about that. And the American people didn't loan them the money, as that implies the money was given to them voluntarily. It sure wasn't. Most Americans were pissed, and rightfully so. Only through fear and force was that money loaned to the banks. Now compare that to how this process works in the opposite direction, when people and small businesses are in trouble and need a loan from a bank. The fact they paid the money back is irrelevant when you're capable of seeing the much bigger picture. I think the state of our economy now is pretty good evidence of this.

 

[Zorkorist]

There is no "cost us very little" when we are trillions of dollars in debt.

The one thing debt counselors tell you, is to tear up your credit card.

-John

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Serious confusion here. None of this is socialism.

A "ceiling" on high pay via high taxes still isn't socialism, nor is a private organization "regulating" itself.

Sorry.

However it does highlight the benefits of regulation and taxation, when they are used properly.

 

[Craig234]

Does anyone have a current tally of the cost of the government bailouts of the finance industry since 2008, including any repayment?

Buying all the SPECULATIVE debt of high-risk derivative type investments at 100 cents on the dollar was not cheap. Goldman Sachs alone is reportedly in the tens of billions.

Of course, they're the company that forced the crisis in the first place - not the overall situation, but the crisis, when every other institution agreed to help defuse it.

 

[Steeplerot]

No need to plug it, the left will win, there is no third way of fascism, fascism is corrupt capitalism. Even a bunch of backwards folks after ww1 knew how the game works against the people. Some form of mixed market world socialism is the only realistic future without killing our fellow comrades.