A personal opinion

[PJABBER]

I have not been an active participant in the Politics forum here on Anandtech until about a week ago. I kinda enjoyed reading the Hot Deals forum and posting there but was not compelled to check out the hyperbole here.

Taking the last few days off I had more of a chance to check out other parts of this site and was amazed (and amused) at the vitriol of the leftish posters here. I wish I found more cogent argument, but had to be satisfied with a lot of less than creative name calling and me vs you vs the last poster kind of "discourse."

One of the advantages of being a bit older, a bit less bitter, a bit better traveled, a bit more introspective and a possibly a bit better read is that I kind of see things with a different perspective. Not necessarily a better perspective, just a different one.

Having seen totalitarianism, I have a better appreciation of what it is like, how a nation may come to it and, frankly, I don't like it one bit. Sorry folks, governments always become oppressive unless they are self-limited with some very strong constraints imposed. The latest lesson is being played out in Honduras, and maybe here as well. By some forethought and as a result of having lived under dictatorship in the recent past, the Hondurans designed a Consitution to catch it before it happened again. So far what they designed has worked - but let's see if they survive the onslaught of external manipulation (including that of our own misguided government in Washington.)

Having seen controlled economies around the world, I don't like them one bit. They stifle innovation and drag everyone down to some arbitrary base level of miserable existence. Only when the human spirit and the economic imperative of individuals is freed up through the right to property and the retention of the fruits of labor can real happiness come about. But it is not a guarantee for there is also an implication of failure as well as success, it is an opportunity.

Having a nanny state seems to be a lot of people's dream here. Why? What childlike promises have been made that will satisfy your wants and needs? Who has guaranteed you happiness or a relief from personal struggle? Why, the liberal has. He and she has such hopes and dreams for you! Whether you want them to or not, a touchpoint of totalitarianism, they will force their noble hopes and dreams on you.

Why did so many flee the nanny states of totalitarian Europe and Asia to take on the risk of being in America when America offered no guarantees, just opportunity? Why do so many still strive to escape the failed controlled economies they were born into? Why would you want to turn the great experiment that America has represented into a poor imitation of what so many have wished to escape these last two centuries?

Before more posts are posted here, I sincerely wish everyone would actually read the U.S. Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, the defining documents of this country. They are eye-opening and inspirational to so many around the world. Perhaps they may be to you as well.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Having a nanny state seems to be a lot of people's dream here. Why? What childlike promises have been made that will satisfy your wants and needs? Who has guaranteed you happiness or a relief from personal struggle? Why, the liberal has. He and she has such hopes and dreams for you! Whether you want them to or not, a touchpoint of totalitarianism, they will force their noble hopes and dreams on you.

You lost me right there, well that and being an idiot and arguing about the price of ham.

The left and the right both have good ideas, but neither side is willing to acknowledge that fact.
Until they do things will not change, you will have posters like Patranus posting right wing crap and Phokus posting left wing crap.
And both of them are usually wrong.

From your other posts you are just going to be a part of the problem.
So kindly shut up and post elsewhere.

 

[theeedude]

Yes, everyone is fleeing the totalitarian states of Canada, France, Germany, etc to come to the US.

 

[Robor]

Put it in your blog, rightie.

 

[BriGy86]

I wish I found more cogent argument, but had to be satisfied with a lot of less than creative name calling and me vs you vs the last poster kind of "discourse."

You're right about one thing.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: PJABBER
Before more posts are posted here, I sincerely wish everyone would actually read the U.S. Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, the defining documents of this country. They are eye-opening and inspirational to so many around the world. Perhaps they may be to you as well.

Yep they are but the authors of those docs had no fucking idea what this country would become in terms of size, population and diversity. If they had those docs wouldn't have been so simple and vague that they are open to so many different interpretations.

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: PJABBER
Taking the last few days off I had more of a chance to check out other parts of this site and was amazed (and amused) at the vitriol of the leftish posters here. I wish I found more cogent argument, but had to be satisfied with a lot of less than creative name calling and me vs you vs the last poster kind of "discourse."

...

Having a nanny state seems to be a lot of people's dream here. Why? What childlike promises have been made that will satisfy your wants and needs? Who has guaranteed you happiness or a relief from personal struggle? Why, the liberal has. He and she has such hopes and dreams for you! Whether you want them to or not, a touchpoint of totalitarianism, they will force their noble hopes and dreams on you.

Consistency fail.

 

[Siddhartha]

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

 

[Carmen813]

I lean left.

I probably put a little more faith in government than I should. I see government as an entity that should stand up for those who cannot stand up for themselves. As with all human institutions, I am often let down, but I remain hopeful that someday we will get it right.

I personally feel those on the right put a little to much faith in private industry. I do not believe the be all end all judgment of a programs effectiveness should be it's profit margin. Take the military. Tremendously large, tremendously expensive, protects all Americans, ridiculously inefficient. I feel that education and health care should be treated the same way. I don't feel that the automobile industry should.

As I said, I lean left. However I agree with a lot of what libertarians say, just not in regards to fiscal policy or their disdain for *all* government programs. I personally feel at the end of the day an effective government program can be run just as efficiently as a private one, it just takes the right organization and infrastructure.

I've read the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. There is a lot of fantastic information in those documents, but they also reflect the tremendous differences that existed among the founding fathers. They bickered constantly about the role of government. All of us here are just doing the same.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: PJABBER
Taking the last few days off I had more of a chance to check out other parts of this site and was amazed (and amused) at the vitriol of the leftish posters here. I wish I found more cogent argument, but had to be satisfied with a lot of less than creative name calling and me vs you vs the last poster kind of "discourse."

Did you completely miss all the right-wing zealots that chime into any topic with "What did you expect from the libs?" or "Dems won't be happy until the government owns everything" or other such thoughtless tripe?

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: PJABBER
Before more posts are posted here, I sincerely wish everyone would actually read the U.S. Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, the defining documents of this country. They are eye-opening and inspirational to so many around the world. Perhaps they may be to you as well.

Yep they are but the authors of those docs had no fucking idea what this country would become in terms of size, population and diversity. If they had those docs wouldn't have been so simple and vague that they are open to so many different interpretations.

No doubt about it.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: PJABBER
Before more posts are posted here, I sincerely wish everyone would actually read the U.S. Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, the defining documents of this country. They are eye-opening and inspirational to so many around the world. Perhaps they may be to you as well.

Yep they are but the authors of those docs had no fucking idea what this country would become in terms of size, population and diversity. If they had those docs wouldn't have been so simple and vague that they are open to so many different interpretations.

Hehe. Ever seen the sheer size and volume of tax law?

It's still an area of multiple interpretations. Writing ever more detailed rules just seems to raise ever more questions. Never seems to stop. We've been writing more-and-more detailed tax law for about 100 years, still plenty of argument about it and lots and lots of cases in court.

They could've written a detailed 1,000,000 page Constitution and I doubt things would be much different.

Fern

 

[Steeplerot]

Zombie Stalin is coming 4 u right wingers brainz and tax monies!
Didn't you hear? Obama was actually cloned in a super secret genetic lab in Kenya with Stalins toenail clippings.
Omgcommunism run!

 

[Elias824]

I love how the OP never directly said anything against Obama but everyone just assumes. I think he is more against the fact that we seem to be getting away from our roots, and the Constitution is **** on at every opportunity.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Elias824
I love how the OP never directly said anything against Obama but everyone just assumes. I think he is more against the fact that we seem to be getting away from our roots, and the Constitution is **** on at every opportunity.

Oh, they understand perfectly well that any defense of the Constitution is a direct and personal attack against the President.

 

[seemingly random]

I don't know about anyone else, but I for one am glad to finally see a personal opinion stated here. It's so new.

I'm absolutely sure the natural barriers and resources provided by the geography of the u.s. have nothing to do with people doing well here and making it look attractive to others. Nope, this can't play any role when compared to such a complex subject as a nanny state. Laissez-faire was such a better plan. Government regulations are created by the devil.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Elias824
I love how the OP never directly said anything against Obama but everyone just assumes. I think he is more against the fact that we seem to be getting away from our roots, and the Constitution is **** on at every opportunity.

Pssst.
This isn't about Obama.
This is about some random guy on the internet complaining about "Liberals".
He made is ideology (and his complete idiocy) known the moment he started posting in P&N.
BTW: Reading comprehension works wonders. Try it some time.

 

[Moonbeam]

"One of the advantages of being a bit older, a bit less bitter, a bit better traveled, a bit more introspective and a possibly a bit better read is that I kind of see things with a different perspective. Not necessarily a better perspective, just a different one."

Gee, what I learned from introspection was that I didn't know anything and that my perspective was toilet paper.

What I learned was to detach from all belief whereas you seem to have become quite enamored of yours.

 

[DealMonkey]

What kinda stupid ego maniacal crap is this?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Yes, everyone is fleeing the totalitarian states of Canada, France, Germany, etc to come to the US.

To a statistically significant degree they are; many magnitudes more Canadians move to the US than vice versa.

 

[PJABBER]

Originally posted by: Elias824
I think he is more against the fact that we seem to be getting away from our roots, and the Constitution is **** on at every opportunity.

Mostly this.

But also, quite a bit of this:

and being an idiot and arguing about the price of ham.

So kindly shut up and post elsewhere.

Put it in your blog, rightie.

He made is ideology (and his complete idiocy) known the moment he started posting in P&N.

What kinda stupid ego maniacal crap is this?

What I learned was to detach from all belief whereas you seem to have become quite enamored of yours.

I am guessing that these types of comments pass for critical thinking somewhere.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: PJABBER

Originally posted by: Elias824
I think he is more against the fact that we seem to be getting away from our roots, and the Constitution is **** on at every opportunity.

Mostly this.

But also, quite a bit of this:

and being an idiot and arguing about the price of ham.

So kindly shut up and post elsewhere.

Put it in your blog, rightie.

He made is ideology (and his complete idiocy) known the moment he started posting in P&N.

What kinda stupid ego maniacal crap is this?

What I learned was to detach from all belief whereas you seem to have become quite enamored of yours.

I am guessing that these types of comments pass for critical thinking somewhere.

Why give you any kind of reaction, you are just troll, troll, trolling your boat.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: senseamp
Yes, everyone is fleeing the totalitarian states of Canada, France, Germany, etc to come to the US.

To a statistically significant degree they are; many magnitudes more Canadians move to the US than vice versa.

"Many magnitudes"? Approx 3-1, 30ish thousand going South, 10ish thousand North.

 

[alchemize]

Been a while since I read this. Left in an interesting quote I don't recall reading!

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: PJABBER

Originally posted by: Elias824
I think he is more against the fact that we seem to be getting away from our roots, and the Constitution is **** on at every opportunity.

Mostly this.

But also, quite a bit of this:

and being an idiot and arguing about the price of ham.

So kindly shut up and post elsewhere.

Put it in your blog, rightie.

He made is ideology (and his complete idiocy) known the moment he started posting in P&N.

What kinda stupid ego maniacal crap is this?

What I learned was to detach from all belief whereas you seem to have become quite enamored of yours.

I am guessing that these types of comments pass for critical thinking somewhere.

What are you talking about. I told you what I know. It is not a matter of critical thinking. It is the result of the realization that what you call critical thinking and what I used to call it are just egotistical garbage. When you realize the empty nature of all the garbage you believe you will start to have some understanding. I don't really care how old you are, you have the mentality of a bigot, a fool full of his self important opinion.

 

[PJABBER]

What are you talking about. I told you what I know. It is not a matter of critical thinking. It is the result of the realization that what you call critical thinking and what I used to call it are just egotistical garbage. When you realize the empty nature of all the garbage you believe you will start to have some understanding. I don't really care how old you are, you have the mentality of a bigot, a fool full of his self important opinion.

I would have to guess that you believe you are enlightened.