A Nuclear Middle East

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
I like how this entire pretense of this thread is that arabs are some sort of towel-head-wearing madmen that doesn't believe in MAD.

Why do numbnuts like you always think you know the secret pretense behind everything?

At least there is no pretense or ambiguity to your stupidity... coverting concern over nuclear proliferation in a volatile region to racism is so bush league.

Unleashing a nuclear arms race in the Middle East could bring potentially devastating consequences for global security. Stay in your lane, these matters are for people with brains.

How can this be a matter for people with brains. The people who get the world into these messes are people with brains. Brains are kind of useless when the problem with humanity is that it is emotionally ill. If you can't solve the problem of the human heart and the trans-planet disease that is killing love, you will never be able to solve the problem of violence and nuclear war. It is hubris that is killing humanity, the assumption that each of us knows what is right when in fact we know nothing at all.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
I like how this entire pretense of this thread is that arabs are some sort of towel-head-wearing madmen that doesn't believe in MAD.

I believe that that arab nations have been fighting since the beginning of time effectively. I believe that they have such a deep hatred for "their enemies", be it Jews/Muslims/the US/etc, that they don't always look at the consequences of their actions. I believe that these countries do not have stable governments for the most part, and even less stable military commanders. I believe that they will help terrorists if it benefits their goals (on the whole, that's not all of them by any means).

I believe that nuclear tech has an effect of destabilizing the region/world, and for many years after they are developed they maintain that effect. Take a look at the US/Russia and the Cold War. How many times were we on the brink of using nuclear weapons, where one wrong move would have caused WWIII. Do you believe that more countries having this tech provides stability to the region/globe? I don't, because the odds increase with more nuclear countries that one dictator/mad man/genocidal maniac gain power and use them against their "enemies."

I also don't buy into the "everybody has it, so nobody would use it" logic.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
I like how this entire pretense of this thread is that arabs are some sort of towel-head-wearing madmen that doesn't believe in MAD.

I believe that that arab nations have been fighting since the beginning of time effectively. I believe that they have such a deep hatred for "their enemies", be it Jews/Muslims/the US/etc, that they don't always look at the consequences of their actions. I believe that these countries do not have stable governments for the most part, and even less stable military commanders. I believe that they will help terrorists if it benefits their goals (on the whole, that's not all of them by any means).

I believe that nuclear tech has an effect of destabilizing the region/world, and for many years after they are developed they maintain that effect. Take a look at the US/Russia and the Cold War. How many times were we on the brink of using nuclear weapons, where one wrong move would have caused WWIII. Do you believe that more countries having this tech provides stability to the region/globe? I don't, because the odds increase with more nuclear countries that one dictator/mad man/genocidal maniac gain power and use them against their "enemies."

I also don't buy into the "everybody has it, so nobody would use it" logic.

I believe that if I were an Arab and you were my neighbor I would try to nuke you before you could nuke me. You definitely have the disease.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates are starting an ambitious plan for a joint nuclear energy program (even as the House of Saud is said to be enlisting Pakistani assistance to build atomic weapons). Yemen is eager to join in this effort despite the dubious distinction of being one of the world's poorest countries. Jordan's King Abdullah has signaled his government is committed to a civilian nuclear program and is currently looking for foreign partners to help build one.

Many others are demonstrating interest in attaining nuclear status. Some appear to be searching simply for a new source of energy but there are clear signs that others are doing so out of strategic motivations... efforts to have a counterweight to the emerging Iranian bomb. Nuclear proliferation in general isn't desirable but this could be really bad.

:thumbsup:
None of these guys cared about having their own until we let Iran get away with pursuing them. This proves, above all other things, that Iran is the problem, and not Israel, for having nukes.

 

[Pulsar]

cwjerome - to respond to your orginal post:

I believe they will proliforate and there is no way to stop them. The technology isn't difficult to obtain. The information can be gotten off the web. The expertise can be hired. Once you accept that they will get nukes, you have to ask yourself what you mean to do about it and how you mean to handle it.

I believe we need to do a couple things.

#1 Stop being the primary funder of the UN. The UN has proven to be nearly worthless. Continue to vote and participate in the organization, but explain we will no longer be the check writers, nor the police force. We will no longer commit more manpower than anyone else, nor put our military in harms-way as we have in the past.

#2 Stop being the police force of the world. Our country is nearly bankrupt. Our military is overextended. Finish what we've started and get them home.

#3 Start, as Obama has (and I shudder to say that), extending the olive branch. To every country. Make it clear that we will not support them. We will not trade with despots and tyrants. But we will talk to them.

We need to stop throwing our weight around. Normalize our relationships with many countries that we have alienated. I do not support appeasement or payments of any kind - but we SHOULD be pursuing diplomacy and talking with them.

Once we stop focussing our attention outside the US, maybe we can get around to fixing the inside too.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Once again your concern is to stop our ally instead of our killers.

Why is Israel my ally?

Why is Iran my killer?

This is where there is a fundamental difference between Left and Right in this country.

That you can look at an Islamic extremist state that supports, funds, trains, arms, and hosts terrorist organizations who have blood on their hands, and question whether they are friend or foe. To me there is no question, the answer is clear.

That the answer is not clear to you, makes me question your loyalty. Makes me question whether you support Islamic extremism yourself.

Whenever there is the benefit of the doubt, you side with them instead of with us or with our allies. You would say Israeli nukes must be stopped, Iranian nukes must be encouraged or not prevented. Israel is not nearly as supportive of martyrdom as Islamic extremists are. Which side of this conflict invests in suicide bombers? Which side already has nuclear weapons and which does not?

Your side of this argument is to place nuclear weapons in the hands of suicide bombers and to imagine that they will uphold the security of MAD.