Well, perhaps you missed the opening post:
This was to be a happy, social time. Some of you had to ruin it by asking pesky questions. Way to spoil a party, dude.
This was to be a happy, social time. Some of you had to ruin it by asking pesky questions. Way to spoil a party, dude.
razel
Platinum Member
- May 14, 2002
- 2,337
- 93
- 101
I pretty much agree. He did state as working for Intel. There is nothing wrong with company employees coming here and starting useful threads especially when they clearly state that they work for the company and wasn't selling anything or knocking other companies down. I was looking forward to him as an Intel employee answering some of our technical questions. He mentioned Intel wanting to be active in the social media. This forum format is useful, but old so he's probably busy in Web 2.0 (blog/twitter) land.
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Obsoleet
Platinum Member
- Oct 2, 2007
- 2,181
- 1
- 0
Give the guy a chance. He comes in here to interact with the community. We all know the questions that everyone wants to ask here like "why no TRIM for my G1 drive" ect ect
You have no TRIM because you bought what was advertised at the time and that's what you get. There are MANY... MANY drives out there that never did, nor never will have TRIM and not just Intel. He doesn't know the answer to that, and you know damn well he won't. He's probably new in his job and doesn't even know who to ask, and most people at Intel couldn't even answer it themselves.
TRIM and RAID are things that no one has, but I'm sure they'd do it tomorrow if it were that easy. Most people are happy with a single SSD's performance though, it's still pretty new technology.
He's in a risky spot as a self identified Intel staff member, and can't say anything that could make the company legally culpable so be patient.
I have an Intel SSD and it's the best one I've ever tested. Everything works properly. There's really not a lot of importance to ask about other than "when do we get the G3s?"
You have no TRIM because you bought what was advertised at the time and that's what you get. There are MANY... MANY drives out there that never did, nor never will have TRIM and not just Intel. He doesn't know the answer to that, and you know damn well he won't. He's probably new in his job and doesn't even know who to ask, and most people at Intel couldn't even answer it themselves.
TRIM and RAID are things that no one has, but I'm sure they'd do it tomorrow if it were that easy. Most people are happy with a single SSD's performance though, it's still pretty new technology.
He's in a risky spot as a self identified Intel staff member, and can't say anything that could make the company legally culpable so be patient.
I have an Intel SSD and it's the best one I've ever tested. Everything works properly. There's really not a lot of importance to ask about other than "when do we get the G3s?"
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Sorry if he comes in here as a rep for intel he has to expect questions like "why no TRIM for G1", especially since pretty much all other manufacturers added TRIM to their drives and continue providing firmware improvements while intel takes a "fvck you, buy the new model instead" attitude. That's an awesome attitude to take if you want to pi$$ off enthusiasts. Seriously - how many people bought a G1 that aren't enthusiasts? And how many would even know how to update it to a TRIM enabled firmware? It would only be the biggest enthusiasts which would probably result in a more favorable reaction to intel's coming to an enthusiast forum like this ...
But with their current attitude, I can only say "fvck intel" and I would recommend buying SSDs from companies like OCZ who take enthusiasts a little more seriously and treat them better.
But with their current attitude, I can only say "fvck intel" and I would recommend buying SSDs from companies like OCZ who take enthusiasts a little more seriously and treat them better.
Obsoleet
Platinum Member
- Oct 2, 2007
- 2,181
- 1
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Yeah, but you'll have a junk drive if you use the OCZ instead of even a G1. I started with Vertex drives, wouldn't go back to the OCZ drives for anything over my Intel. Nor would I choose a Vertex over a G1 between the two choices. A G1 in total degradation is faster than a zeroed out Vertex.
It's a good drive, and like I said, sometimes you get what you knew you were buying at the time. We don't know if the G1 controller can support it or not.
The G1 has garbage collection built in.
I agree with obsoleet. Ti8me to let the Trim thing go. We have alot more to gain by having an Intel guy around than that. That ship has pretty much sailed.
It is for sure not his fault. And why wold he know the answer to that particular question just because he happens to work there? And probably, as said, just started also.
It is for sure not his fault. And why wold he know the answer to that particular question just because he happens to work there? And probably, as said, just started also.
no, no,
we can't just go over it saying, hey what happened has happened,
the buyers got screwed whether they're enthusiasts or not, the company never lost a penny and never either said anything about the issue,
CoolVariable is perfectly right, intel comes out with that attitude saying we can do whatever we want to, we got the market in our hands, there's no obligation to anyone,
the least they could've done is explaining the situation, that is basic customer relationship and not sending a rep to answer questions for people who are probably (and saying probably) are even better familiar with the hardware then him.
at least if they would have sent an engineer working on the product line, that would have been a decent approach, someone who can attend people's questions and not going over to engineers and coming back saying what they told.
so they take a guy who learned literature and is very capable of writing nice blogs, and that's how they treat they're customers, with disrespect, thinking eventually about themselfs,
scott is about marketing intel product so again, this comes back to money and business the company would like to make out of users at the forums,
it's not even like what JF-AMD is doing coming here and posting his views, that is very legitimate, discussing people and pushing AMD from a neutral perspective,
and as far as i know, JF IS an engineer working on the server line for AMD and you can discuss him many aspects and whatever he can say he gladly will.
Intel is kind of like sending a troyan horse in, JF is doing something natural and respective.
that's my pov at least.
we can't just go over it saying, hey what happened has happened,
the buyers got screwed whether they're enthusiasts or not, the company never lost a penny and never either said anything about the issue,
CoolVariable is perfectly right, intel comes out with that attitude saying we can do whatever we want to, we got the market in our hands, there's no obligation to anyone,
the least they could've done is explaining the situation, that is basic customer relationship and not sending a rep to answer questions for people who are probably (and saying probably) are even better familiar with the hardware then him.
at least if they would have sent an engineer working on the product line, that would have been a decent approach, someone who can attend people's questions and not going over to engineers and coming back saying what they told.
so they take a guy who learned literature and is very capable of writing nice blogs, and that's how they treat they're customers, with disrespect, thinking eventually about themselfs,
scott is about marketing intel product so again, this comes back to money and business the company would like to make out of users at the forums,
it's not even like what JF-AMD is doing coming here and posting his views, that is very legitimate, discussing people and pushing AMD from a neutral perspective,
and as far as i know, JF IS an engineer working on the server line for AMD and you can discuss him many aspects and whatever he can say he gladly will.
Intel is kind of like sending a troyan horse in, JF is doing something natural and respective.
that's my pov at least.
@The Intel guy
The G3 will be using 25nm NAND, would you happen to know how many P/E cycles this NAND has?
The G3 will be using 25nm NAND, would you happen to know how many P/E cycles this NAND has?
Early Adopters are risk takers. Intel is generally a good company that takes care of things. This time they did not do so good.
I still use their CPU's
I still use their CPU's
Gillbot
Lifer
- Jan 11, 2001
- 28,830
- 17
- 81
Alright. First of all thank you for dropping in these forums.
Let me ask you this: you're probably aware that performance on SSDs can scale very well because it's capable of doing true parallel I/O, as opposed to HDDs which are fundamentally serial based since they can only do I/O at one location at a time. Even with multiple heads the actuator still is locked to one position; thus HDDs are serial operation devices by nature.
Now the real question: what difficulties do you encounter when trying to scale performance? Couldn't you just release a 256-channel controller for example and push speeds into 1GB/s+ range? As long as you can predict the I/O pattern (sequential pattern; backwards or forwards of logical LBA), you should not have issues with insufficient queue depth. Upon two contiguous I/O requests you could assume the pattern is sequential and thus apply internal read-ahead to make sure all channels are busy.
So in my mind, i cannot see the reason Intel isn't pushing speeds against the interface limits. The Intel controller with SRAM cache (i believe 256KiB?) in X25-M does a very impressive job at latency and i still think its the best controller around these days even though SandForce and Micron are serious rivals when looking at both sequential and IOps performance.
Would Intel be looking more at PCI-express as interface instead? Why doesn't Intel build a platform on PCI-express where Intel delivers the PCI-express card with Intel native PCI-e to NAND-controller to the customer, and the customer can insert NAND to the PCIe controller much like SO-DIMM. So you could start with 2x 64GiB NAND and the controller will be able to do I/O faster when you add more NAND modules to the PCIe card.
If someone is capable of building such a platform, it would be Intel. High-performance storage would always be in demand, and Intel already has a head-start as it can build good native controller chips of its own.
Last question: ever considered integrating HPA mapping tables stored in DRAM memory chip to on-die SRAM in the controller-chip itself? Howmuch space would be needed and how big would the impact be on random I/O workloads?
That's all i can think of right now.
Thanks for your time! I highly appreciate and commend your efforts of posting on these forums.
Sub.mesa,
Sorry it took me a bit to get to this question! I've been busy...
Anyway, with regards to your question about architecture and a 256 channel controller, just keep in mind that that many channels would take up valuable real estate and cost money.
As for your question about pushing I/O interface limits, we are in fact doing that. Our drives are getting around 250MB/s read times against the ~300MB/s limit (with some overhead).
With regards to the PCIe comment...
http://storage-news.com/2009/09/27/idf-intel-shows-pci-express-ssd-solution-reaching-1-million-iops/
Hope some of this is helpful! Sorry I can't get into more specifics about drive architecture (I'm sure you understand
)-Scott, Intel Corporation
Sub.mesa,
Sorry it took me a bit to get to this question! I've been busy...
Anyway, with regards to your question about architecture and a 256 channel controller, just keep in mind that that many channels would take up valuable real estate and cost money.
As for your question about pushing I/O interface limits, we are in fact doing that. Our drives are getting around 250MB/s read times against the ~300MB/s limit (with some overhead).
With regards to the PCIe comment...
http://storage-news.com/2009/09/27/idf-intel-shows-pci-express-ssd-solution-reaching-1-million-iops/
Hope some of this is helpful! Sorry I can't get into more specifics about drive architecture (I'm sure you understand
-Scott, Intel Corporation
Nice - observe how he avoids all the questions that were not so "convenient" for the company. E.g. lacking TRIM for first gen drives.
I have an 80GB G1 sitting around... it is actually a fine drive with some extra space as dedicated free space and the fact it is used on a system with very little writing. All user files get written to the network so the only writes are program installation (once every three months), update installation (often but usually not huge), and the random OS/ program writing that happens. Still, when launching programs and booting I get great speed. At 80GB storing user files on the network is almost a requirement so it works out.
Just a thought.
Totally agree.
Even agree that in normal usage it is less affected by being a "used" drive.
BUT there is a speed difference between a "used" drive and a "new" drive that TRIM was later introduced to fix ... and there is no fix for the G1 intel, even if it needs it LESS than other drives.
The G1 was much more expensive than the G2 and intel is effectively telling all G1 buyers to fvck themselves.
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