A note about Communism.

[Borushka]

Ok, I know this thread is going to give me a bad name, and is going to upset alot of people who do not understand me, but here we go anyway. Communism is a good idea gone wrong.

Communism was born out of the hypothetical government called Marxism. I call Marxism hypothetical because everyone who tried to create "true" Marxism was killed(Che Guevera and Leon Trotsky, being most famous). Believe it or not, Russia had the intent on being a Marxist nation, infact they were well on the road to being one until Stalin.

You see, in Marxism, there was a belief that after the former Capitalist government was overthrown, you would need a temporary dictator to make sure everything was in order until the people could once again control themselves. Lenin for the most part was Russia's dictator. But, Lenin died before he could name his successor. This left his position to either Joseph Stalin, or Leon Trotsky. Unfortunately, Stalin left it to himself, to make himself dictator without the intention of ever given the people and had Trotsky assassinated. So Stalin created "his" Russia, and set out to mold the rest of the worlds governments to his desires in which we now call Communism.

I myself do not believe that Marxism would work because...
A.) Power corrupts most
B.) Not everyone is willing to do equal work, so therefore equal work and equal pay would never work out
C.) Man is lazy, ignorant, greedy, and vain

I like the following Marxist aspects...
A.) Everone has a job, no matter how lazy or ignorant a person, there is something they can do to contribute to society
B.) Everyone has health care, just because parents can not provide does not mean their children do not deserve health care, all children deserve health care.

I define myself as a democratic socialist. To me, this means less Capitalism influence and more people. I agree, Capitalism has made alot of the upper class richer and alot of the middle class richer. But, there are alot more jobless, and people in poverty than there are rich. Shouldn't the majority have the control? Oh, and yes I voted for Nader, but I am not a green.

Ok, back to the term paper I should be writing...

 

[Russ]

<< Communism is a good idea gone wrong. >>



Bwuahahahaha!!!! Oh, you were joking, right?

Russ. NCNE

 

[mjquilly]

Like many other government forms, Communism is a good system in theory, it just doesn't work. And no, I don't want to live in a Communistic society (at least none that have ever existed so far in this world).

 

[Windogg]

Aren't school kids cute? Wait'll reality hits and you need to work for a living. Then you realize that some people can barely pick their nose without stabbing themselves in the brain. Then you realize why there are social classes and some people are better off than others.

Windogg

 

[Napalm381]

The Poles, Hungarians, and Czechs would disagree with you.

 

[JenniZ]

All systems are corrupt in one way or another, but I prefer capitalism to any other current systems.


Black Man, White Man....Rip The System
--KMFDM

 

[Isla]

Don't worry. I liked my Sociology classes is college, too. Liked 'em so much I minored in it, and it sure doesn't make me popular around here! Ahh, Utopia.... what a concept. Just don't forget to read Ayn Rand's Anthem for good measure. Gotta stay balanced...

 

[Cretin]

The original idea of Communism was good, but it never worked out, and I don't think it ever could.

The idea was basically, as Isla put it, Utopia. But because of the way people are, this theory can never work. We will never all be in complete agreement and all give/contribute the same all the time. It just doesn't and won't work.

Studying the Russian revolution in grade 11 &quot;world history&quot; right now. I forgot everything we discussed in the last classes, hopefully it'll come back to me in the next class. :Q

Cretin

 

[VladTrishkin]

I am not taking sides here, but for people who thinks it was a dumb idea, talk to some people who have lived in the former USSR (and no, I haven?t) and they will tell you some facts they have experienced. Many say life was great but government was corrupt.

 

[CAK]

Communism today means 5% of the people control 90% of the wealth, feed lies and false promises, and are ruled by bribs, kickbacks and payoffs. Many ohers but thats the jist of it.

 

[fake]

My family escaped Communism for a reason. It doesn't work. Period.

 

[Borushka]

Windogg, on behalf of your statement

Aren't school kids cute? Wait'll reality hits and you need to work for a living. Then you realize that some people can barely pick their nose without stabbing themselves in the brain. Then you realize why there are social classes and some people are better off than others.

Windogg

I would like to know if you are attacking communism, democratic socialism, or me? If it is communism, then I agree it would never work, as I stated in my original post. If it is democratic socialism, then I would like to know why a human, no matter how stupid, does not deserve basic human rights to life such as health care? If you are attacking me as a person, go on right ahead, but you can not take away what I believe to be right. Oh, and if you are attacking me, I just farted so it smells, if you can work something constructive out of that, by all means go for it!

 

[ElFenix]

yet another utopian scheme.

actually, as marx laid out there are no specifics to the tranistion phase, he only said that given how he saw the trends, workers would eventually overthrow the capitalists. lenin realized that this would never happen because capitalists would do things like go half way with workers, export the really bad jobs to other states (russia at the time), and other such stuff. lenin saw that there needed to be a revolutionary party to make the transistion happen, the Communist party. which had internal division but always had a unified exterior. stalin was the guy who figured that there needed to be a dictator to tell the communist party what to think because external unity is really hard when there is internal conflict. that and stalin, one of the most ambitious people to ever live (maybe moreso than pompey and caesar) saw in this last bit the way to achieve domination over the whole state. hell, he may have thought he was acting constitutionally the whole time (the soviet constition gave the gov't extrordinary powers when there was a threat to socialism involved, which stalin may have believed his political enemies to be.)

there is no gov't involved in marxism. none. so there is no hypothetical gov't called marxism. leon trotsky wasn't much of an alternative to stalin. while probably not as psycho as the general secretary, much of the industrialization and collectivization campaigns were his ideas. bukharin was a true alternative. che seemed more interested in killing people, using inflamatory revolutionary rhetoric to justify his violence. no wonder castro sent him on a suicide mission.

the majority shouldn't have control. want to know why? this may shock you or it may not. the majority of people are stupid! whether it be their own fault for not pursuing knowledgable interests or whether it be a time contraint, the majority of people do not have the ability to make informed decisions about the vast majority of topics. not even the richest of the rich. now, there are areas of specialization. many wealthy people have some specialized area that makes them their money, such as doctors, accountants, and lawyers. what you are proposing is that people are not rewarded in accordance with their skill, their risk-taking with their property, or with any luck that happens to follow them. the market rewards people who do such, whereas any form of radical socialism actually discourages those people from using their talents and property to the benefit of themselves, their employees, and their customers.

 

[Borushka]

What I feared most has already happened. Please, read the post, do me some justice, I took time and thought to create that. Do not just read the first few sentances then assume you know what the rest is about. I am not pro-Communist, I saw alot of misinformed posts in the thread dealing with Taiwann, and I saught to inform, while express my own opinions. Do not create an arguement where there is not one to be faught.

Thanks

 

[Borushka]

ElFenix, I do not have the required sources at my hand to do your arguement justice, but thankyou for reading it all, and making a constructive criticism.

Thanks

 

[Double Trouble]

Are you folks smoking crack? A good idea gone bad? I think you've been using some of that California 'medicine' cigarette a bit much

There's NOTHING good about communism, not in it's &quot;purest&quot; form, not in any form. Any system that denies individual freedom to pursue happyness is inherently evil. Period. No ifs, ands or butts. Other systems have downsides, but they at least also have an upside. Communism has NO upside.

 

[Borushka]

Tagej, In true Marxism, the power was to be bestowed upon the people, that just never really happened. So yes Communism bad, democracy good. Please read into the post, before you argue.

 

[jaydee]

Here's the deal:

Theoretically, any ideology would work for government if the right people were in charge. A Monarchy, Oligarchy, Facist(sp?), Democracy, Republic, Totalitarian, Marxism/Communism, what have you, would all work if a flawless person was running it, who was not subject to greed, lust, and the like. But such a person is not around, so we have to pick the government that is least likely to be currupted, and pray that whatever idiot(s) is/are in charge doesn't screw the people over. Every single government imaginable has failed in one place or another. Does that mean they are all bad? No, that means there's some jerk(s) in charge. The least likely government to be mutilated into a blood-bath of citizens, is a Democracy/Republic as far as I and many other people can tell. It's not perfect, but it's the most suitable for most nations. But of course, that can be worse than some Totalitarian if the people in charge are perverts who abuse there power for sex, and the Totalitarian is run by someone who actually cares for the people he has been given control over. It's about the people in charge, not the system they run it. Hope this made sense to some people.

 

[Windogg]

Borushka

I guess a little from columns A, B, and C to make things interesting. I used to be like that but those days have passed. Basically this whole thread is one of your farts in a sealed jar which you have opened to let everyone take a sniff (hey just trying to make intersting conversation).

Windogg

 

[Champo41]

Communism works on paper, but is terrible in society

 

[Borushka]

Jaydee, I agree with you, that is why I think democratic socialism is the best option. The poor are not ignored, and the people still have the same freedoms they have always had, the only ones I could see really suffering, are Corporations, and that would only have a minor effect on them at most.

Windogg, Why give up? I know there is a point where it is best to say, &quot;what is not broke, do not fix&quot;, but I feel we are still quite some distance away from being able to say that. And what is wrong with sharing the smell of your own stench with others, unless there is a 2/3 vote, I am going to keep farting, thanks.

 

[ForeverSilky]

<< A not about Communism >>


It dudn't woik.

 

[jhu]

i prefer totalitarianism with me as the leader.

 

[jaydee]

I don't see how you can have the same observation as me, but come to Socialist-Democracy as a conclusion. It boggles my mind. Socialist-anything leads to a greater chance for corruption then Libertarianism. The only way to lessen government curruption, is to lessen government. If Harry Browne were elected, government would be so small you would barley notice it. If you can barley notice the effects in good times, then under corrupt officials, effects in bad times would barely noticible as well. A Socialist Democracy has just as much chance to screw the poor than to help it, if undesirable circumstances arise (as far as polititians are concerned).

 

[jaydee]

BTW, I see not what your trying to prove with your &quot;communism is good, but it will never work&quot; rhetoric. I can conversely say &quot;I have this awesome cpu that could slaughter a 32.7ghz DDR T-Bird, but... it will never work&quot;. I don't see the point to this thread.