Noobtastic
Banned
And look at Lemon Law, to think by virtue of being a Jew somehow makes criticisms of Jews more legitimate.
I think you spilled some antisemitism in that post. Better clean it up.
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And look at Lemon Law, to think by virtue of being a Jew somehow makes criticisms of Jews more legitimate.
I think you spilled some antisemitism in that post. Better clean it up.
Lemon law
Lifer
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Its not surprising to see IHV try to play the antisemitism card at random moments, in a flail out try anything. But there is no antisemitism in pointing out Israel is not totally united in though, nor is there any in holding all groups in the mid-east to the same standards of Behavior.
And I should note there is no antisemitism in challenging the myth that because some of Obama top advisers are Jewish, that they will be Jews first and Americans second. Precisely the same religious bigotry JFK had to fight 50 years ago.
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Noobtastic
Banned
Just because a Jew is the judge of Israel doesn't somehow make criticism more legitimate or reilable.
This is what you inferred, and this is blatant antisemitism.
Saudi Arabia and Pakistan (the nominators) of Goldstone had this in mine. The Soviet Union deliberately selected Jews to run their anti-Zionist propaganda institutes so just they could pre-emptively silence any criticism of antisemitism.
Half the communist revolutionaries were Jews, yet they did nothing during the revolution when 300,000 were massacred by Leftist-inspired pogroms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Anti-Zionism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionist_committee_of_the_Soviet_public
These programs were specifically designed to discredit Jews trying to emigrate out of Russia as "traitors" (as Zionism was painted as pro-imperialist and anti-communist) while placating the Arab demographic.
The idea the Jews are moral loyal to Israel than to their native state of invented by communist russia, and used as a pretext to oppress them. Arab states also used that as a pretext to expel their Jewish population.
There is a strong difference between the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion. A token Jews elected to be the judges of all Jews means absolutely nothing Lemon Law.
Lemon law
Lifer
If my case were based on one Token Jew, IHV, I might agree with your contention that, "There is a strong difference between the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion. A token Jews elected to be the judges of all Jews means absolutely nothing Lemon Law."
However there are millions of non-elected Jews inside of Israel who do not agree with Netanyuhu policy, and that hardly makes them tokens.
Nor do I think there is anything in the Jewish religion to that causes Israelis to seek advantages over weaker groups, its simply human nature, the problem is, its now counterproductive to any Israeli future.
However there are millions of non-elected Jews inside of Israel who do not agree with Netanyuhu policy, and that hardly makes them tokens.
Nor do I think there is anything in the Jewish religion to that causes Israelis to seek advantages over weaker groups, its simply human nature, the problem is, its now counterproductive to any Israeli future.
Noobtastic
Banned
What?
Tell me of these millions? Netanyuhu has wide-support among the Israeli people. And what I am saying is not unique to Netanyuhu. What I am saying is consistent with the whole Israeli political spectrum, from Meretz to Shas.
You said GOLDSTONE's CRITICISMS was LEGITIMATE AND FAIR because he is a JEW, thus he is incapable of being antisemitic.
This is what you said. This is wrong.
Leftist Jews in Russia sold out their Jewish brothers in favor of Leftist causes. Feel free to respond to that, or just deflect with another factual inaccuracy.
Lemon law
Lifer
Once again IHV distorts what I said, by saying, "You said GOLDSTONE's CRITICISMS was LEGITIMATE AND FAIR because he is a JEW, thus he is incapable of being antisemitic."
When what I said is that Jews are equally capable of being intellectually honest, and its only you that implies that Goldstone was not intellectually honest, and was instead some sort of a tool. Doing someone else bidding, and therefore was made artificially more credible as a tool simply because he was a Jew
But cheer up, many other groups with no political or religious axes to grind, reviewed the same evidence, and came to exactly the same conclusion Goldstone did.
When what I said is that Jews are equally capable of being intellectually honest, and its only you that implies that Goldstone was not intellectually honest, and was instead some sort of a tool. Doing someone else bidding, and therefore was made artificially more credible as a tool simply because he was a Jew
But cheer up, many other groups with no political or religious axes to grind, reviewed the same evidence, and came to exactly the same conclusion Goldstone did.
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Lemon law
Lifer
And then IHV goes off the real deep end with, " Leftist Jews in Russia sold out their Jewish brothers in favor of Leftist causes. Feel free to respond to that, or just deflect with another factual inaccuracy."
No I will not bite by trying to defend a long and rich Russian anti-Semitic history. But why blame just Russian communistic leftists when tsarist cossacks made Jewish programs into a national blood sport. And a question may exist, who killed more Jews, and totally innocent people, Hitler or Stalin. They were both first class equal opportunity killer in their own right. And Russia has now done everything to disavow Stalin and Germany has done everything to repudiate Hitler.
And what does that have to do with a just mid-east peace now, IHV?
No I will not bite by trying to defend a long and rich Russian anti-Semitic history. But why blame just Russian communistic leftists when tsarist cossacks made Jewish programs into a national blood sport. And a question may exist, who killed more Jews, and totally innocent people, Hitler or Stalin. They were both first class equal opportunity killer in their own right. And Russia has now done everything to disavow Stalin and Germany has done everything to repudiate Hitler.
And what does that have to do with a just mid-east peace now, IHV?
Noobtastic
Banned
Stalin is still popular in Russia and antisemitism is sky-rocketing in Germany.
Next.
Lemon law
Lifer
All IHV proves by saying " Stalin is still popular in Russia and antisemitism is sky-rocketing in Germany", is that there is always a lunatic fringe everywhere. And for that matter, why should not world wide anti Semitic grow given Israeli behavior? For what its worth, some of the Russian Jews Israel has imported have children have that formed a pro-nazi skin head movement inside of Israel, all that proves is piggish human nature when some group does not become automatically and immediately entitled.
And for what its worth, the one nation inside of the mid-east that did not expel its Jews is Iran, and many Iranian Jews that immigrated to Israel have returned to Iran by choice.
But on a deeper analysis, the IHV argument boils down to that past European injustices
make Jews entitled to visit similar Nazi tactics on Palestinians, and there is not a dimes worth of difference between Israeli tactic and Nazi tactic, but there may be a nickels worth. Instead of being full Nazi, who confiscate Jewish property by reason of religion, and then ship their victims off to concentration camps, and them them gas them to death, a more compassionate Israel confiscates Palestinian property, ships them off to concentration camps, denies them any hope of employment or economic opportunity, barely feeds them, and then pretends Israel is then amazed when some Palestinians terrorists protest. But The nickels worth of difference lies in Israelis that are still too squeamish to gas them to death. Why then are Palestinians not similarly entitled? As Israel busily pretends that the 3 million Palestinians, 99% of whom are not terrorist, will simply grow gills and swim away.
And for what its worth, the one nation inside of the mid-east that did not expel its Jews is Iran, and many Iranian Jews that immigrated to Israel have returned to Iran by choice.
But on a deeper analysis, the IHV argument boils down to that past European injustices
make Jews entitled to visit similar Nazi tactics on Palestinians, and there is not a dimes worth of difference between Israeli tactic and Nazi tactic, but there may be a nickels worth. Instead of being full Nazi, who confiscate Jewish property by reason of religion, and then ship their victims off to concentration camps, and them them gas them to death, a more compassionate Israel confiscates Palestinian property, ships them off to concentration camps, denies them any hope of employment or economic opportunity, barely feeds them, and then pretends Israel is then amazed when some Palestinians terrorists protest. But The nickels worth of difference lies in Israelis that are still too squeamish to gas them to death. Why then are Palestinians not similarly entitled? As Israel busily pretends that the 3 million Palestinians, 99% of whom are not terrorist, will simply grow gills and swim away.
Noobtastic
Banned
Wow LL. Comparing Jews to Nazis again, even after we had this same discussion where I literally had to define Nazi Germany and Israel?
How low can you go.
Lemon law
Lifer
IHV asks, "How low can you go."
IHV, What you call low is simply the painfull truth part of a a post 1948 Israeli history. Worse yet, Israeli, using slightly more subtle means, continues displacing Palestinians and Arabs, from disputed land they do not own, and replaces them with Jewish only residents.
But still, Israel is by no means as bad as Nazi Germany, nor are the Palestinians without sin, but if you want to rebut that Israel does and did not use unfair land confiscation, confront the issue honestly and factually and prove the right to return is a non existent issue, rather than puff up in indignation and expect that to fool anyone.
But for what its worth, I will give you this link to the history and the resultant propaganda.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ref-qumsiyeh.html
IHV, What you call low is simply the painfull truth part of a a post 1948 Israeli history. Worse yet, Israeli, using slightly more subtle means, continues displacing Palestinians and Arabs, from disputed land they do not own, and replaces them with Jewish only residents.
But still, Israel is by no means as bad as Nazi Germany, nor are the Palestinians without sin, but if you want to rebut that Israel does and did not use unfair land confiscation, confront the issue honestly and factually and prove the right to return is a non existent issue, rather than puff up in indignation and expect that to fool anyone.
But for what its worth, I will give you this link to the history and the resultant propaganda.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ref-qumsiyeh.html
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Lemon law
Lifer
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No, Jaskalas, I want a just mid-east peace, before it spills into a total bloodbath of violence
with the likely outcome that the more numerous Arabs will win militarily in the end.
And no it will not bring Israel to its knees economically, even though Israel will have to sacrifice many ill gotten gains. Sharing is not per say losing. When the USA emancipated its slaves, the greater nation of the USA lost nothing, even though certain groups within the USA lost and other groups won.
That is somewhat the Israeli dilemma, will a just peace consist of a Palestinian and Israeli State, when past and current Israeli settlement policy may have already left too disputed little to form a Palestinian State, or will the end just peace consist of Israel having to assimilate Palestinians with full legal and voting rights, radically changing Israel away from a Jewish dominated State?
Inside of Israel, the intellectually honest knew those were the end choices, but people like Netanyuhu and settler parties think the merry go round will never stop.
Noobtastic
Banned
Geez LL, we've had the same conversation over and over again. Every time I respond to your bullshit, you simply ignore the conversation - typically relying on the quote-mine technique - then repeat the drivel 5 pages letter hoping I don't remember.
Israel is not displacing Palestinians and Arabs. Arabs can live anywhere they want in Israel. Unlike Jews, who were displaced and ultimately cleansed from the Arab world Lemon Law.
Israel is displacing its own Jewish residents.
Again your use of holocaust inversion to smeer Israelis as Nazis is the kind of partisan name calling that adds no credibility to the discussion.
Are you capable of discussing the land title issues withotu referring to Israelis as Nazis or are you so bias and emotionally vested in your positions now you can't speak without insulting people?
There are Israelis who believe they have a religious or political or legal right to unfettered ownership of certain land in Jerusalem. Simply labelling them all Nazis is the kind of negative stereotyping that leads to you being called anti-semitic, or anti-Jewish.
The fact is some of the land Palestinians claim in East Jerusalem as part of their sovereign nation if it comes to pass were actually Jewish lands taken by Palestinians just as there is land in West Jerusalem that now belongs to Jews that were taken from Palestinians.
More to the point there are Palestinians who are not willing to negotiate on on the status of Jerusalem, settlements, terrorism, and Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. It doesn't make Israelis or Palestinians Nazis.
ifamericanknew is a pro-Arab propaganda site (founded by Qatari mouthpiece, premier sponsor of Al-Qaeda) that is far from scholarly.
Your post has been demolished, once again.
there is nothing israel can do to win the affection of the Arabs outside of mass-suicide. Palestinians want Israel destroyed, the Arabs want Israel destroyed. Economic incentives have failed miserably. The billions sunk into the "Palestine question" have been wasted and siphoned by the leadership.
Stop hiding behind peace buzzwords to justify Palestinian rejectionism. They are the problem. There is a reason why Israel is a pro-Western, pro-Democracy progressive state that doesn't kill its own citizens or sabotage their economy in pointless aggression and terrorism.
The Arab world is a cesspool, but of course LL doesn't expect the Arabs to lift a fuckin finger for the Jews. Israel hasn't done enough.
How about Israel start treating the Palestinians like the Arabs do. I don't see you critical of the Arab policies (which truly border on racist) towards their Palestinian population.
Look at Lebanon for instance. Just 2 days ago half a dozen Palestinians were killed in inter-fighting...no outrage from the Lemon Law. Guess when you can't blame Israel, you say nothing.
You don't give a flying FUCK about the Palestinians.
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Lemon law
Lifer
Well, IHV, maybe you will accept the wiki version even though it says much the same thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return
And for what its worth, IHV, your position seems to be a one sided pro Israeli fan clubber, but that requires totally saying Palestinians, also the inhabitants of the former British mandate that became Israel in 1948, have no rights at all.
And my position is that a just mid-east peace must take an equal view of the rights of Israeli Jews, Palestinians, and indigenous Arabs.
Israel, after its formation in 1948 could have granted equal rights to all of the residents of the former British mandate, and sadly decided to grant rights only Jews, and will never know peace until those mistakes are corrected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return
And for what its worth, IHV, your position seems to be a one sided pro Israeli fan clubber, but that requires totally saying Palestinians, also the inhabitants of the former British mandate that became Israel in 1948, have no rights at all.
And my position is that a just mid-east peace must take an equal view of the rights of Israeli Jews, Palestinians, and indigenous Arabs.
Israel, after its formation in 1948 could have granted equal rights to all of the residents of the former British mandate, and sadly decided to grant rights only Jews, and will never know peace until those mistakes are corrected.
Noobtastic
Banned
says what?
whatever my side is, you are incapable of debating it.
"indigenous arabs." more buzzwords?
what. arabs have full rights in israel, whereas 1,000,000 jews were expelled from the arab world.
of course, it is israel that is condemned.
why dont u just vacate your property and give it back to the natives. go back to BRITAIN settler.
Noobtastic
Banned
Individuality does not exist in the ME outside of Israel.
Islamic world is purely a mono-culture.
Noobtastic
Banned
Feel free to point them out.
I'm sure there are "individuals", but most are executed or branded as "collaborators" before expressing any individuality.
In a typical muslim family with 5 children, all will be the same.
Diversity is non-existence in the Islamic world. Explains why they fail at everything and competition is hardly exists.
Lemon law
Lifer
Gotta be some what puzzled with the IHV statement of, "whatever my side is, you are incapable of debating it."
As if asserting a right to make a very dubious IHV statement and then having a right to assume the merely you saying is makes it then true. Bullshit, pure plain and simple.
But to go back to the original point, I asked you to respond to a wiki link, and all you come up with is a total smokescreen instead.
It seems, IHV, that its you that are incapable of debating. And then seek every last refuge of scoundrels deflections to disguise your inability to honestly respond.
As if asserting a right to make a very dubious IHV statement and then having a right to assume the merely you saying is makes it then true. Bullshit, pure plain and simple.
But to go back to the original point, I asked you to respond to a wiki link, and all you come up with is a total smokescreen instead.
It seems, IHV, that its you that are incapable of debating. And then seek every last refuge of scoundrels deflections to disguise your inability to honestly respond.
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Zorkorist
Diamond Member
Tank boy in China. The guy at tiamen square, stopped the tanks.
If THAT is not an individual, defieng the state, nothing is.
And everyhthing is... so you need to adjust your thoughts and KNOW there are individuals against the government.
-John
Noobtastic
Banned
Compare my posts to your responses. I am very explicit and precise. I provide facts, and sometimes even links.
You, on the other hand, rarely respond to my post directly, and instead reply with another paragraph that largely consists of points irrelevant to my original post.
It is YOU that is incapable of debating a SINGLE point I have made. I totally DEMOLISHED your false and offensive analogies of Jews and Nazis. And not surprisingly, you didn't respond. You didn't admit defeat.
Simply ignored the post, moved on to another rant, rinse and repeat.
Please don't waste my time.
Noobtastic
Banned
China is not the Muslim world.
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