A new rig - After 7 years!

[sammyunltd]

Hi! I recently decided that my HP P4 1.7 GHz/512 MB SDRAM computer has run its course. It?s been 6 years full of emotions, of good and bad. Now it?s time to go on something more powerful ? LOL!

So, I?ve got around $1500 CAD (around $1500 USD) and that is without a monitor (I?ve already got my Samsung 225BW). This $1500 includes taxes (which in Canada are 5%) and shipping. So, basically, we?re looking at a $1350 CAD/USD computer (without taxes and all).

As for what I want and what I need, I?ve been lurking around for years. I have some basic knowledge of how this works and what to choose depending of the need(s). This is the year I?m upgrading. I know Nehalem is coming, so is the new generation of GeForce. However, I feel like, even though my stuff is going to be outdated in less than a year, this computer is going to last me awhile just for the fact that I?ll be free to change every single component ? feat that was impossible to do on my HP computer.

As for my needs themselves, well, there?s gaming. I?m not an eye-candy guy (because I?ve never been used to being one) and I?m not the gamer I was. Plus, I?ve got my PS3, so it?s safe to say that my PC will only play games that will not be on PS3 (Splinter Cell Conviction, BioShock, Gears of War, etc.). I?m a gamer, I want good graphics, but doesn?t want to pay $2000 to have SLI and so on.

As for what I do, well, basic applications. Office (Word, Excel, PPT), Firefox/IE7, Bittorrent, Google Talk, Limewire, iTunes, etc. Really mainstream applications. Currently, I?m not able to run all of these simultaneously, but I?ll probably be able to with a newer CPU! I?m going Intel here, without a doubt. As for whether Dual Core or Quad Core, well, suggesting my use, I?d say Dual Core and considering that they are cheaper (E8400 vs Q9xxx). Although, my final decision will be based on what you guys have to say.

As for overclock, well, I have never tried it (except like a 20 MHz overclock on my ATi 9800 PRO). I?m planning to get my E8400 to 3.6 GHz with the stock HSF. Will DDR2-800 be enough? Should I pay the premium (around $50-60 CAD) to get DDR2-1066?

Finally, I have never built a computer. I?ll probably get the help from one of my friends that has already built a couple of them. But, it?s safe to say that I?d like a case that is easy to work with.

So, I?ll stop writing and show you my tentative build: Prices in CAD

Feel free to comment!

Case: Antec P182 $128.66
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 $218.88
Motherboard : Abit IP35-Pro $189.30
RAM: G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-5-5-15 $101.52 **Is this good? What about the timings
Hard Drive: Western Digital SE16 500 GB $105
Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU-620HX $126.20
GPU: eVGA GeForce 8800GT $262.86
DVD-RW: Samsung SH-203B $30
DVD-ROM: LG 16X DVD-Rom $20
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium OEM 64-Bit $107.17
TOTAL : $1289.59 w/o tax/shipping

HSF? Additional fans for the case?

A big THANKS to y?all! Hope to hear from y?all soon!
Regards

 

[sammyunltd]

Come on guys. Please, help me.

 

[myocardia]

It looks fine. And no, you won't need PC8500 RAM, unless you later decide to try to hit 4.5 Ghz, or something. You might want to consider getting the retail version of whatever DVD-RW you decide to buy. That version of Nero that came with your last burner won't work with the new one. And that case doesn't have very good airflow, compared to say, the Antec Nine Hundred.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

drop the DVD-ROm, you don't need it. burn/play from the same DVD burner. its probably faster at reading too.

everything else looks good. did u fully exhaust all your other options?
case: cooling/wire management?
ram: cas 5 isn't cas 4, but shouldn't make any difference in real world apps.
HSF: tuniq tower, or anything big that has the bolt-thru style mounting. not the AF7P without the lga775 bolt thru kit.

 

[Dadofamunky]

I'd go for OCing RAM like this thing here.. Man, you're in the catbird seat - you Canucks finally have a favorable exchange rate! I'm almost jealous but you can have the snow and other brutal weather...

I'd also go with a Seagate drive. And a dual-layer SATA DVD burner. I've had nothing but trouble with WD drives. In my experience, the WD aren't as fast as the Seagates.

The OS is perfect. (See my sig.) After seven years you must be jacked to do an upgrade. You are not going to believe your eyes. The new stuff will be probably 20x faster if not more.

Good luck and have fun, eh?

 

[nevbie]

Originally posted by: sammyunltd
I know Nehalem is coming, so is the new generation of GeForce. However, I feel like, even though my stuff is going to be outdated in less than a year, this computer is going to last me awhile just for the fact that I?ll be free to change every single component ? feat that was impossible to do on my HP computer.

Note that you still aren't free to change anything as you wish, at least easily. A motherboard that supports current intel processors won't support Nehalem processors as far as i know, because the processor socket will change. And you cannot put DDR3 memory to DDR2 motherboard or vice versa, unless it is a combo board.

Originally posted by: sammyunltdAs for overclock, well, I have never tried it (except like a 20 MHz overclock on my ATi 9800 PRO). I?m planning to get my E8400 to 3.6 GHz with the stock HSF. Will DDR2-800 be enough? Should I pay the premium (around $50-60 CAD) to get DDR2-1066?

These 45nm processors have 333FSB. E8400 would have a multiplier of 9x. Q9450 would have a multiplier of 8x. FSB*multiplier=processor speed. So if you get DDR2-800 RAM (and it works at it's rated 800 value) it means that if you run a memory divider of 1:1 (a setting in BIOS), you can get FSB up to 800/2=400 without memory limiting it. That would give a speed of 3,6GHz for E8400 and a speed of 3,2GHz for Q9450. With stock cooler only, I'm not sure how far I would go in overclocking.. but you can make an easy choise of picking DDR2-800 instead of DDR2-1066 based on this.
Before overclocking you have to check that certain values in BIOS are not "auto", at least PCIe bus should be set at it's normal value.. otherwise the motherboard may change it as you change the FSB (as far as i know, again).
If I were you, I wouldn't overclock unless you notice slow performance in the operation of the PC.. or I would set a small overclock, without raising any voltages (doing that increases the heat considerably more than just increasing the frequency does).

I'm personally getting the Q9450 quad core, but I have to agree that the choise between it and E8400 is not easy. A major point for the E8400 is that it overclocks better, but if you intend to use the stock cooler only, it's not as clear advantage. If you overclock a dual core, it will be easier to raise the FSB without raising as many voltages as agressively as with a quad core. If you plan to use this upcoming PC for a long time, I'd recommend quad core. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by: sammyunltd
RAM: G.SKILL F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-5-5-15 $101.52 **Is this good? What about the timings

I'm personally aiming for either that kit or Corsair's equivalent memory kit. Kingston RAM is supposed to be quite stable, but costs more for the same performance and may not overclock as well in all cases. I cannot say for sure. About the memory timings, just forget them, all of the other choises affect your performance more than them. Well maybe not the case but who knows..

Originally posted by: sammyunltd
Hard Drive: Western Digital SE16 500 GB $105

I'm getting a samsung spinpoint T166 500gb drive instead, I think. People say good things about the quietness of the samsung drives. Dunno if you care about noise though.

Originally posted by: sammyunltd
DVD-RW: Samsung SH-203B $30
DVD-ROM: LG 16X DVD-Rom $20

I haven't done much research about these.. Isn't the samsung drive enough alone, though?

Originally posted by: sammyunltd
HSF? Additional fans for the case?[/b]

Getting an aftermarket cooler for the CPU wouldn't be too bad. People get such often for overclocking, and some do for getting a quieter PC. (I'm trying both to some extent myself)

 

[LOUISSSSS]

do u need all the features on that motherboard?
6 sata w/ raid
2 esata
dual lan
2 firewire

ip-35 E difference w/ the Pro in short:
1 lan
4 sata
0 esata
0 firewire

the ip-35 E works for 90% of the people since most only have 1-2 SATA drives and at most 1 SATA Optical drive
firewire is useless and most people use USB for external USB which is almost as fast
2 lan is useless for 99% of people that buy this gaming enthusiast MBs

 

[DerwenArtos12]

The general hardware forum would be a better place for this thread unless you have an specific question about your processor choice or how to overclock it.

IMHO drop the secondary DVD-Rom, you can always rip off images and mount them using a program like acohol120 if you need to have more than one DVD in your system at any given time which, in reality you probably won't. Were it my build I would go for the DFI Blood Iron P35 board, save you a few bucks and probably overclock a little better. Everything else looks good.

Oh, i would set aside an extra $40 or so to replace/ammend the stock fans with the P182. The stock ones are more designed for low soudn than high performance and 4 Scythe Slipstream 1200 or 1600RPM fans would bring temps down a good bit and keep noise reasonably quiet.

 

[Jhatfie]

You have picked out some good components. Like others have said, not sure if you'd need that additional DVD ROM. If you do not need firewire, the MSI Neo2-FR is a great board for around $90 and the Gigabyte DS3L is solid as well if you do not need raid either. But the Abit is a awesome motherboard with lots of features.

I have a Antec P-180 and it is a very sweet case. Heavy though. I added 2 120mm fans to the front that are failry low dba but push decent air. The tri-cools that are included are nice. Get great airflow with all of those. E8400 Oc'd to 4Ghz only get up to 49-51C when running orthos for hours and my 8800GT with a Accelero S1 never breaks mid 40's C when gaming with Crysis or COD4.

I am not sure about 2GB sticks of ram, I am still using 2x1GB myself. But I personally have had my best luck with Gskill and Mushkin. Like nevbie mentioned, If you only plan to get to 3.6Ghz, DDR800 is all you need. That is all I am running with mine at 4.05Ghz. With a 1:1 memory ratio, your memory will be running at exactly DDR-800 at 3.6Ghz (400x9).

For Cooling, I am using a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 and it is superb. Got it for $33, it is super quiet and does a excellent job cooling. I have also tried the CoolerMaster Hyper TX2, which is not bad for $15, better than stock by a large margin, the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 pro for $25-ish, which is a bit better than the TX2 and a Thermalright Ultra 90, which is a bit better than the AC f7 pro if you stick a decent fan on it. If you want even better cooling, of course just get a Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme with a s-flex 120mm fan. But for the $$, the Hyper 212 is my personal choice.

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: myocardia
And that case doesn't have very good airflow, compared to say, the Antec Nine Hundred.

The P180 doesn't have good airflow? Have you ever used one? Did you leave the fans on the lowest-speed setting?

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: myocardia
And that case doesn't have very good airflow, compared to say, the Antec Nine Hundred.

The P180 doesn't have good airflow? Have you ever used one? Did you leave the fans on the lowest-speed setting?

I said it doesn't compare to the cheaper Nine Hundred, as you can see from what you quoted.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: myocardia
And that case doesn't have very good airflow, compared to say, the Antec Nine Hundred.

The P180 doesn't have good airflow? Have you ever used one? Did you leave the fans on the lowest-speed setting?

I said it doesn't compare to the cheaper Nine Hundred, as you can see from what you quoted.

Well I've seen tornadoes with less airflow than the Nine Hundred.

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: myocardia
And that case doesn't have very good airflow, compared to say, the Antec Nine Hundred.

The P180 doesn't have good airflow? Have you ever used one? Did you leave the fans on the lowest-speed setting?

I said it doesn't compare to the cheaper Nine Hundred, as you can see from what you quoted.

Ah. Fair enough, I guess. I buy cases when there are big rebates, so I think my P180 was about $50. Do they do similar rebates for the 900?

 

[darckhart]

just fyi if you do end up going with the ip35-pro and a large blocky heatsink, if you don't have slender fingers, mounting that heatsink is gonna be a pita; the fins sprouting off their otes system really make life difficult.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: CTho9305
Ah. Fair enough, I guess. I buy cases when there are big rebates, so I think my P180 was about $50. Do they do similar rebates for the 900?

Hey, I'd buy two P180's at that price, and I've never seen a Nine Hundred at less than $100. Also, I realized that I forgot to answer your question in my last post. No, I don't own either, but I've built systems for people with both. The P180 has decent enough airflow, roughly equivalent to my two Antec SLK-3700's, but they don't have the airflow that a Nine Hundred has. That's actually not a knock against the P180, but more of an endorsement for the Nine Hundred's excellent airflow.

 

[Peelback79]

+1 for the Antec 900 case. I love it, not too loud with all fans set on medium and it keeps everything cool. But invest in some canned air because this thing is a room filter. Once a week cleaning minimum....unless you're not that anal like I am.

 

[Denithor]

@Sammy:

Nice rig. Enjoy the build!

 

[The-Noid]

I would agree that the 900 provides better airflow.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: sammyunltd
It?s been 6 years full of emotions, of good and bad. Now it?s time to go on something more powerful ? LOL!

I?m planning to get my E8400 to 3.6 GHz with the stock HSF.

If you are going to keep your computer for as long as you kept your last one, it makes a lot of sense to go with Q6600 for $70 more. Also, Q9300 is just around the corner. Those 2 will overclock to 3.4-3.5+ghz (esp the latter). E8400 goes beyond 3.6 btw

I am not sure why you want 2 DVD rom drives, just get a DVD-RW. Not sure where you buying your parts from but there are some good deals if you look around like 8800GT 512 for $200

Are you sticking with the stock cooler?

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
I'd go for OCing RAM like this thing here.. Man, you're in the catbird seat - you Canucks finally have a favorable exchange rate! I'm almost jealous but you can have the snow and other brutal weather...

I'd also go with a Seagate drive. And a dual-layer SATA DVD burner. I've had nothing but trouble with WD drives. In my experience, the WD aren't as fast as the Seagates.

The OS is perfect. (See my sig.) After seven years you must be jacked to do an upgrade. You are not going to believe your eyes. The new stuff will be probably 20x faster if not more.

Good luck and have fun, eh?

No need to spend extra for the G.SKILL 1000...

My 800 runs 1000 on the same 2.0V - 2.1V as the 1000 kit.

Save some money and get the 800 kit...:thumbsup:

 

[sammyunltd]

Hi!

I really thank you guys for your replies. I have some updates here.

1) You are probably right about the DVD-ROM. It's useless. It's just because I've been used to it.. there's one in my current HP computer.

2) As for the lifetime of this rig, well, I think it'll last me for at least a year/18 months. I'll probably keep the same case (if that is possible) and the same components and just change CPU/MoBo/RAM (for Nehalem ). The reason is that I'll have the financial resources to make that change... faster.

Also, that's a reason why I want to buy the E8400. It's fast, cheap and for my projected lifetime, enough. What do you think of the upcoming Quad Penryns? Are they REALLY worth it? I heard a lot of negative comments on these. That's why I'm staying away from it!

3) As for the overclock, well, I'm a n00b. I don't really know how to do it, but I'll be glad to try and push towards 4.0 GHz. Thus, is it more logical to buy DDR2-1066 instead of DDR2-800?

Take a look here! (G.Skill 2x1GB)

4) As for the place I'll buy those parts, it'll probably be only on DirectCanada (great prices, owned by NCIX) and NCIX. The reason I want to buy from NCIX is because of the Step-Up Program offered by eVGA (only offered @ NCIX). If I buy my 8800GT in 2 weeks, I'll probably have until May to change it, which gives me enough time to find a decent replacement (if needed).

5) So, I should really buy an aftermarket cooler? I've heard a lot of good comments on the Tuniq Tower 120? Is that really good?

6) About the case fans, is it OK if I only add 1 or 2 fans (or replace them, I don't know if it's easy or not to do so)? Which brand? Antec TriCool? Scythe? What would you recommend?

7) About the Hard Drive, well, I've heard the new WD are pretty good compared to the Seagates - they crash less often.

A dumb question regarding storage. Let's say I buy this rig and I fill completely my HD with content (music, documents). Then, I buy a totally brand new computer. How am I supposed to bring that content onto my new computer? Can I just transfer the HD from one computer to the other? Do I have to burn like 200 DVDs of backup?

8) As for the motherboard, well, I just want something that is stable, that is easy to use and that has several ports. RAID? I've heard of it, but don't know how to use/apply it. If it's not too complicated, I might be tempted to try this but....

Also, what "Dual-Lan" means? eSATA?

Hey, thank you a LOT!

You're really nice to help me!

Regards

 

[BlueAcolyte]

1) ok.
2) ok.
3) No, you will need about 450FSB to hit 4GHz. Good DDR2-800 RAM should do this easily.
4)ok.
5) If you want to overclock that much, yea... Something good would be the Xigamatek 1283 or CM 212... There are a lot of good ones: Zerotherm Nirvana, Tuniq Tower, TR Ultima 120 (need to lap it) or any other 120mm tower-type cooler
6) Case fans doesn't really matter unless you are really picky, but go ahead and add some. Look at the CFM (airflow) vs dB (noise) ratings.
7) Just clean all your drivers off and put the hard drive into the next computer, yes.
8) The IP-35PRO is fine but I don't know if it is the best for the price point... Look into getting a cheap X38 board like a gigabyte X38-DQ4.

 

[MetaDFF]

Originally posted by: sammyunltd
Also, what "Dual-Lan" means? eSATA?

Dual-Lan means there are two networking controllers on your motherboard. Pretty useless in most situations since you'll likely be only connecting to a single network.

eSATA is external SATA. Basically for external hard drive enclosures that support it. Instead of connecting an external HDD via pokey slow USB 2.0 (480 Mbps), you can use the eSATA connector so the hard drive connects at (3 Gbps/1.5 Gbps depending on the drive inside). eSATA is good for people that need to move huge amounts of data on a portable drive, such as editing video files off an external drive.

 

[nyker96]

I have three comments:
1. You need to get a Tuniq 120 or something that level to support any overclocking here. That gives you more room to do it. As for memory get the Gskill DDR-1000. This combo will allow you to go 4Ghz easily, effortlessly and safely. That chip will do 4Ghz+ so no need to be contend with just 3.6Ghz.
2. You probably don't need IP35-pro's bells and whistles, if not check out IP35 or IP35-E will save you some money that way.
3. You can get a cheaper 880GT, I have seen it go under $200AR here in US. leave the rest cash for 120mm fans, Arctic Silver 5 compound etc.

Rest of parts are excellent choices. Funny, I recently recommended a friend almost exact same component list of addition of Gskill-1000 and Tuniq. He easily clocked it to 4Ghz, no sweat and is exceedingly happy with the entire setup.

 

[quadomatic]

I think you could probably cut the cost by a looot on this rig. (I'm basing this on USD pricing, but the CAD is roughly the same value as USD now so it won't matter much I guess)

CPU: There are places that sell the E8400 for $189

Mobo: IP35-Pro is good, but the IP35-E is probably good enough. You could probably pick up the IP35-Pro for cheaper than that I would think...

Hard Drive: I personally don't like Western Digital hard drives. I think most people would recommend Segate drives...

Video Card: 8800GTs definetly go for cheaper than $288. There are usually deals where you can get one for less than $200. I suggest you don't pick up an 8800GT though, since the GeForce 9 series is literally just around the corner.

HSF: You MUST buy an aftermarket HSF if you want to overclock. I've also heard good things about the Tuniq 120, but the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro is good too, though the Tuniq 120 is probably better, but the Freezer 7 Pro is roughly $20 cheaper.