Not once did I blame a victim of any crime. I'm saying there are things you can do to minimize the possibility that you will become a victim.
Not once did I blame a victim of any crime. I'm saying there are things you can do to minimize the possibility that you will become a victim.
Those lists are of the top 25 countries... Are you proud that the US is in the company of South Africa and Armenia?
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,767
- 46,572
- 136
Living makes you a possible target for crime. I am not going to hide inside my home like some Transylvanian peasant just because the sun goes down every night.
My idea of self defense is a mag full of hollowpoints and the ability to put them to effective use if need be.
I think it's pretty obvious that I meant to type "one of the highest".
What do you think these top 25 countries have in common? Drugs, guns and gangs.
Most murders are committed by people who know each other, and more frequenly than not, is the result of a dispute over drugs, money, or something gang related.
These crimes are very rarely random, isolated events.
If you let everyone and their mother carry a gun, all you have is more people who will be more tempted to use guns in situations that absolutely don't warrant it, or having a huge increase in accidents.
What do you think these top 25 countries have in common? Drugs, guns and gangs.
Most murders are committed by people who know each other, and more frequenly than not, is the result of a dispute over drugs, money, or something gang related.
These crimes are very rarely random, isolated events.
If you let everyone and their mother carry a gun, all you have is more people who will be more tempted to use guns in situations that absolutely don't warrant it, or having a huge increase in accidents.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,767
- 46,572
- 136
Our drug laws cause the violence problem, not the guns.
Every time that a carry law is considered in a state the anti-gun lobby comes out and touts the exact same "streets run red with the blood of innocents" bs that you just posted. Such a situation never actually materializes when the laws are passed though.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
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Do you have any other arguments besides lies? The majority of those top 25 countries have extremely strict gun control laws. Especially Russia and Mexico.
And your faith in humanity is just wonderful. Basically, your argument is that only laws preventing us from having guns keep us from being cold-blooded murderers. That without gun laws, we would all be killing each other. That might be YOUR moral system, that might be the only thing keeping YOU from being a murder, but that is not the morality of most people. Why don't you just admit that you hate people?
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
In fact, the opposite is true. Everytime a carry law is passed, violent crime goes DOWN. And everytime a gun control law is passed, violent crime goes up. And why not? Laws do not stop criminals, but they do stop law-abiding citizens from being able to defend themselves.
cKGunslinger
Lifer
- Nov 29, 1999
- 16,408
- 57
- 91
Actually ,those list the Top ~64 countries. And look at the robbery one. The US is ranked #24, behind Spain, the UK, and Chili. Does the prevalence of "guns" explain this phenomenon?
FFS, even that ultra-liberal blow-hard, Micheal Moore tried to link guns to crime in the US and couldn't pull if off, no matter how hard he stretched.
These countries may have strict laws, but they are also some of the most corrupt. The governments (or some people in power), are heavily involved with almost all aspects of organized crime.
I think there is a multi-step solution to the violence in the USA. First, I would like to see fire arms to be heavily regulated. Second, I would like many of the drug laws changed. I feel that if the drugs were regulated, you wouldn't have people involved so heavily in gangs. You don't often see people killing each other over beer.
With these relaxed drug laws, there will be increases in accidents that happen, such as intoxicated driving.
To handle offences, I would like to see a very heavily reformed justice system.
In my justice system, punishment is severe. Regulatory offences result in huge fines, and true crimes result in harsh prison sentences. There would be no such thing as early parole, and in addition to jail time, there is a rehabilitive component to the sentence. If you do not participate, or fail to adequately pass this component, you remain in prison indefinitely, until it is completed.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Actually, in more than half of all murders the murderer was under the influence of alcohol at the time the crime was committed.
Your system sounds a lot like totalitarianism. "Do as the Almighty State requires or suffer our wrath!" The "State" in this case being the way you'd like to see things provided you had the power. Thank God you never will.
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
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For a man who's been on here since '99 you should know better.
Any articles copied and pasted also need to have your own input with the post.
Also, this belongs in P&N.
Any articles copied and pasted also need to have your own input with the post.
Also, this belongs in P&N.
cKGunslinger
Lifer
- Nov 29, 1999
- 16,408
- 57
- 91
I say let it stay - it's actually spawned a more mature discussion than could be hoped for back home in P&N.
i didn't read the whole thing (prolly a lil over half)
and i agree with most of it
it seems that these days no one can do anything to defend themselves (at least doing something that would make a difference) with out getting in trouble
i.e. stabbing a guy trying to mug you
ans schools these days are over obsessed wiht harrasment and self-esteem
and i agree with most of it
it seems that these days no one can do anything to defend themselves (at least doing something that would make a difference) with out getting in trouble
i.e. stabbing a guy trying to mug you
ans schools these days are over obsessed wiht harrasment and self-esteem
While I believe in the right to bare arms, and the right to nudity in general, that article was extremely long, meandering, and poorly written.
Exactly what the hell would a rightwinger do if the left suddenly embraced gun ownership? Based on this article I can only assume the shock would cause them to curl into a little ball and suck their thumb while the entire fabric of their reality turns to dust.
Exactly what the hell would a rightwinger do if the left suddenly embraced gun ownership? Based on this article I can only assume the shock would cause them to curl into a little ball and suck their thumb while the entire fabric of their reality turns to dust.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
- 91
go to p&n now. no ones gonna read that. i hate authors who are more concerned with filling pages iwth fluff than actual meaningful content.
and you know what? f*ck the gun nuts. until they start really supporting personal rights in all spheres they are just a bunch of loons cozying up with fundamentalist christians who spend every waking moment trying to oppress the personal freedoms of women and homosexuals.
and you know what? f*ck the gun nuts. until they start really supporting personal rights in all spheres they are just a bunch of loons cozying up with fundamentalist christians who spend every waking moment trying to oppress the personal freedoms of women and homosexuals.
Funny that when someone posts a topic that belongs in P&N in here, you only point out the fact if it's something with which you disagree.
I despise guns, but the author makes a very valid point, even if it could have easily just been made using the last paragraph. Too many people only want the rights THEY cherrish most to be protected; the others be damned. I've seen this from you a lot Proletariat.
I think that guns, and even moreso concealed-carry, are a severe threat to our society... but the fact remains that to own one is a fundamental right whether I like it or not.
I read 65% and then realized, what the hell he just keeps saying the same things over and over again. I get it, if we all had guns it'd be really cool. What we really need is a pre-crime division.
TheAdvocate
Platinum Member
- Mar 7, 2005
- 2,561
- 7
- 81
Two more things:
1) Will the gun nuts please stop arguing this point like it's relevent? The 2nd amendment was designed to ensure the MILITIA (not jim bob cooter & his AK-47) was able to keep and bear arms so a despot leader couldn't use the armed forces to enforce his will on the citizenry, and in effect, become a tyrant. It has nothing to do with "crime" as discussed in millions of these debates, and it most certainly has nothing to do with every redneck owning a small arsenal in his garage for "self defense & deer hunting".
2) P&N. Seriously. NOW. (pls move/lock it mods)
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