A Miracle

[Hyperblaze]

Originally posted by: KPSHAH316

Originally posted by: Jero

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: Jero

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Which brings us to the question" Why do you think that a gay couple would be incapable of providing the enviroment capable of producing a loving family?

I'll give my answer to that one: A gay couple is not unable to provide a loving environment - a gay couple is inaqequately prepared for a lot of situations that arise in the raising of children, though: What does a gay male couple do when thier 13 year old daughter gets her first period? They don't know, they've never had to deal withh that. What advice does a gay male couple give thier teenage son when he wants to start dating girls? They can't, they've never tried it. Is a gay male couple even capable of teaching proper hygeine habits to a little girl? Maybe, but how would they know? What about a lesbian couple potty-training thier son? They don't even understand the basics of the difficulty involved in aiming.

Can most of these obstacles be overcome? Yeah, with some effort, but some of them might not be - like the girl getting her first period. Even if her fathers knew how to deal with this, would she come to them about it? I've never heard of a girl going to her father in that situation.

Certainly, a couple of gay parents would be preferrable to a foster home or an orphanage, but I still don't think it's an ideal situation for raising children.

I'm sorry, but if those weak examples are the best summation you can come to, I'd say gay couples don't have much to overcome. Yes, these situations can be difficult and/or akward, ANY well informed parent shouldn't have a problem with them, reguardless of orientation.

umm.....here is where i say...who the heck are you to give such a statement? Have you ever been through it? You can't possibly know unless you've ever been through it.

With the same notion, who are you to give such absurd statements on gay families as you have above?

Talk to any family psychologist. I'm sure it would be a no brainer for them to give you a entire lecture on it.

I'm glad that someone wants the kid, but it would be way too messed up of an enviorment for the kid to handle- there are many normal families that want children anyway.

Try convincing rbloedow

I'm done with arguing with him..it's like talking to a wall.

He says I've proved his point...and I'm like....wtf are you talking about.....

He makes really fvcked up assumptions without any basis of reality.

 

[z0mb13]

is this real??

 

[jagec]

Jero, rbloedow....

Please, for the sake of us all...
read this and this and this.

 

[novasatori]

:heart:

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: Jero

Originally posted by: KPSHAH316

Originally posted by: Jero

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: Jero

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Which brings us to the question" Why do you think that a gay couple would be incapable of providing the enviroment capable of producing a loving family?

I'll give my answer to that one: A gay couple is not unable to provide a loving environment - a gay couple is inaqequately prepared for a lot of situations that arise in the raising of children, though: What does a gay male couple do when thier 13 year old daughter gets her first period? They don't know, they've never had to deal withh that. What advice does a gay male couple give thier teenage son when he wants to start dating girls? They can't, they've never tried it. Is a gay male couple even capable of teaching proper hygeine habits to a little girl? Maybe, but how would they know? What about a lesbian couple potty-training thier son? They don't even understand the basics of the difficulty involved in aiming.

Can most of these obstacles be overcome? Yeah, with some effort, but some of them might not be - like the girl getting her first period. Even if her fathers knew how to deal with this, would she come to them about it? I've never heard of a girl going to her father in that situation.

Certainly, a couple of gay parents would be preferrable to a foster home or an orphanage, but I still don't think it's an ideal situation for raising children.

I'm sorry, but if those weak examples are the best summation you can come to, I'd say gay couples don't have much to overcome. Yes, these situations can be difficult and/or akward, ANY well informed parent shouldn't have a problem with them, reguardless of orientation.

umm.....here is where i say...who the heck are you to give such a statement? Have you ever been through it? You can't possibly know unless you've ever been through it.

With the same notion, who are you to give such absurd statements on gay families as you have above?

Talk to any family psychologist. I'm sure it would be a no brainer for them to give you a entire lecture on it.

I'm glad that someone wants the kid, but it would be way too messed up of an enviorment for the kid to handle- there are many normal families that want children anyway.

Try convincing rbloedow

I'm done with arguing with him..it's like talking to a wall.

He says I've proved his point...and I'm like....wtf are you talking about.....

He makes really fvcked up assumptions without any basis of reality.

Are you kidding? This whole thread you've talked about how gay parents will mess up a child, admitting that you've grown up in a normal mother/father home, then making this statement: "who the heck are you to give such a statement? Have you ever been through it? You can't possibly know unless you've ever been through it."

You invalidated yourself! As far as making assumption, I'll back up my ideas with fact, from your very own government: http://naic.acf.hhs.gov/pubs/f_gay/f_gayb.cfm

"Children will develop problems growing up in an 'unnatural' lifestyle."

Courts have expressed concern that children raised by gay and lesbian parents may have difficulties with their personal and psychological development, self-esteem, and social and peer relationships. Because of this concern, researchers have focused on children's development in gay and lesbian families.

The studies conclude that children of gay or lesbian parents are no different than their counterparts raised by heterosexual parents. In "Children of Lesbian and Gay Parents," a 1992 article in Child Development, Charlotte Patterson states, "Despite dire predictions about children based on well-known theories of psychosocial development, and despite the accumulation of a substantial body of research investigating these issues, not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents."

Psychiatrist Laurintine Fromm, of the Institute of Pennsylvania Hospital, agrees with that finding. "[The] literature...does not indicate that these children fare any worse [than those of heterosexual parents] in any area of psychological development or sexual identity formation. A parent's capacity to be respectful and supportive of the child's autonomy and to maintain her own intimate attachments, far outweighs the influence of the parent's sexual orientation alone."

Who is making ASSumptions now? :roll:

 

[Ryan]

And even more p0wn3age:

American Psychological Association: http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html

So, Jero, who is the one that lives in reality?

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: rbloedow
And even more p0wn3age:

American Psychological Association: http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html

So, Jero, who is the one that lives in reality?

From that article:

It should be acknowledged that research on lesbian and gay parents and their children is still very new and relatively scarce. Less is known about children of gay fathers than about children of lesbian mothers. Little is known about development of the offspring of gay or lesbian parents during adolescence or adulthood. Sources of heterogeneity have yet to be systematically investigated. Longitudinal studies that follow lesbian and gay families over time are badly needed.

The article admits that studies done in this area are lacking in a lot of ways. It starts out with 4 paragraphs about the limitations and criticisms of the studies involved, and then primarily compares single lesbian mothers to single hetero mothers - a comparison that has no bearing on this discussion about 2-parent households.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: rbloedow
And even more p0wn3age:

American Psychological Association: http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html

So, Jero, who is the one that lives in reality?

From that article:

It should be acknowledged that research on lesbian and gay parents and their children is still very new and relatively scarce. Less is known about children of gay fathers than about children of lesbian mothers. Little is known about development of the offspring of gay or lesbian parents during adolescence or adulthood. Sources of heterogeneity have yet to be systematically investigated. Longitudinal studies that follow lesbian and gay families over time are badly needed.

The article admits that studies done in this area are lacking in a lot of ways. It starts out with 4 paragraphs about the limitations and criticisms of the studies involved, and then primarily compares single lesbian mothers to single hetero mothers - a comparison that has no bearing on this discussion about 2-parent households.

Certainly that paragraph could show doubt, but the paragraph prior to it summarizes my point perfectly:

"In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of gay men or lesbians is compromised in any respect relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth. "

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Certainly that paragraph could show doubt, but the paragraph prior to it summarizes my point perfectly:

"In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of gay men or lesbians is compromised in any respect relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth. "

Yeah, there's no evidence thus far, in a fairly limited amount of study. Like they said, there's a lot of studying left to do, who knows what they'll find. There have been plenty of things that seemed ok at first, but turned out later on to be bad ideas.

You've got thousands of years of evidence behind one family system, and a few incomplete studies dating all the way back to 1993 that support this other family system as "about the same".

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Certainly that paragraph could show doubt, but the paragraph prior to it summarizes my point perfectly:

"In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of gay men or lesbians is compromised in any respect relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth. "

Yeah, there's no evidence thus far, in a fairly limited amount of study. Like they said, there's a lot of studying left to do, who knows what they'll find. There have been plenty of things that seemed ok at first, but turned out later on to be bad ideas.

You've got thousands of years of evidence behind one family system, and a few incomplete studies dating all the way back to 1993 that support this other family system as "about the same".

The evidence dates back to the mid-70's, as noted in the link. Not only that, NOTHING supports your assumption that gay people would be unfit to raise children, nor that the children are effected negatively. All of the evidence THUS FAR shows no negative side effects. You have NOTHING to support your viewpoint.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Certainly that paragraph could show doubt, but the paragraph prior to it summarizes my point perfectly:

"In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of gay men or lesbians is compromised in any respect relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth. "

Yeah, there's no evidence thus far, in a fairly limited amount of study. Like they said, there's a lot of studying left to do, who knows what they'll find. There have been plenty of things that seemed ok at first, but turned out later on to be bad ideas.

You've got thousands of years of evidence behind one family system, and a few incomplete studies dating all the way back to 1993 that support this other family system as "about the same".

The evidence dates back to the mid-70's, as noted in the link. Not only that, NOTHING supports your assumption that gay people would be unfit to raise children, nor that the children are effected negatively. All of the evidence THUS FAR shows no negative side effects. You have NOTHING to support your viewpoint.

You're right, I don't really have any scientific evidence to back up my viewpoint. You have a little bit, but not much, and most of it is based on studies of single parents, which doesn't really matter for what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying that someone is a bad parent because he or she is gay, I'm saying that a family that lacks a maternal or paternal parental figure is at a disadvantage to one that has both influences. Basically - I'm saying a gay couple is in a lot of ways comparable to a single father (or mother). You have studies that largely compare single parent gay to straight households, which is irrelevant to me. I'd expect children from those types of households to come out about similar. You have very little evidence on anything about children that grow up with two gay parents. So, basically, we're each going on what intuition tells us for the most part. You're saying that you don't think the gender of the parents matters, that two male influences are jsut as good as two female influences, or one influence of each. I'm saying that I think a child is raised the best with the influence of both genders.

This isn't really about homosexuality at all, I'd say the same thing about two straight men who lived in the same house and wanted to raise a child: that that child would be better off with a mother and a father.

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Certainly that paragraph could show doubt, but the paragraph prior to it summarizes my point perfectly:

"In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of gay men or lesbians is compromised in any respect relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth. "

Yeah, there's no evidence thus far, in a fairly limited amount of study. Like they said, there's a lot of studying left to do, who knows what they'll find. There have been plenty of things that seemed ok at first, but turned out later on to be bad ideas.

You've got thousands of years of evidence behind one family system, and a few incomplete studies dating all the way back to 1993 that support this other family system as "about the same".

The evidence dates back to the mid-70's, as noted in the link. Not only that, NOTHING supports your assumption that gay people would be unfit to raise children, nor that the children are effected negatively. All of the evidence THUS FAR shows no negative side effects. You have NOTHING to support your viewpoint.

You're right, I don't really have any scientific evidence to back up my viewpoint. You have a little bit, but not much, and most of it is based on studies of single parents, which doesn't really matter for what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying that someone is a bad parent because he or she is gay, I'm saying that a family that lacks a maternal or paternal parental figure is at a disadvantage to one that has both influences. Basically - I'm saying a gay couple is in a lot of ways comparable to a single father (or mother). You have studies that largely compare single parent gay to straight households, which is irrelevant to me. I'd expect children from those types of households to come out about similar. You have very little evidence on anything about children that grow up with two gay parents. So, basically, we're each going on what intuition tells us for the most part. You're saying that you don't think the gender of the parents matters, that two male influences are jsut as good as two female influences, or one influence of each. I'm saying that I think a child is raised the best with the influence of both genders.

This isn't really about homosexuality at all, I'd say the same thing about two straight men who lived in the same house and wanted to raise a child: that that child would be better off with a mother and a father.

I may have started this by my poor jest. Let me say that I disagree with Notfred. Any child that a homosexual couple could rear, would be better off with the homosexual couple than in an institution.

There are a lot of children that need homes of dedicated loving parents. There are not enough straight parents willing to accept these children. These children are better off in the home of a loving gay couple than they are in an orphanage or foster home.

 

[Ryan]

Holy crap - talk about resurrecting a thread

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Kasper4christ
Ferengi
star trek,
turn in your anandtech/geek/nerd card

nice story

heh, even I GOT that reference lol... and I'm not a Trekkie by any stretch of logic

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Holy crap - talk about resurrecting a thread

I regularly go through posts authored by me. It's a habit.

It's after 8 o'clock (see sig.) I might have paged in a bit to far.

:wine:

 

[imported_FishTaco]

All this fuss over an urban legend? Snopes

 

[BespinReactorShaft]

Meh..