A message to Born-Again Conservatives

[Dari]

The people that are against the stimulus package argue that it's wasteful and too expensive. These are the same idiots that were cheerleaders of wasteful spending by the previous Bush Administration and state planning by Alan Greenspan when he set the interest rates artificially low in order to generate growth. Well, let's remember that times like these is when government is supposed to step in and spend money, independent of whether or not we have a current account deficit. To make my point even more clear, the recession we're going through now is global and everyone has to spend in order for us to get out of it. Worse, quickly trying to balance the budget in the face of a nasty recession will only make it worse, deepening the deficit and recession. Don't believe me? Just ask the Hashimoto government of 1997.

A new economic order is sorely needed and it will be a global effort. But considering how our central bank has exhausted monetary policy, fiscal policy is all we have left.

 

[dphantom]

You won't find fiscal conservative republicans who were cheerleaders as you put it of Bush's budgets. We don't need to be born again, we've been there all along.

 

[Jaskalas]

One does not need to be a religious nut, as you suggest, to oppose the government and its waste. Spending is not the only way to put money into the hands of people, you fail to understand how taxed we are and how a reduction in taxation is all the money people would need to revive a healthy economy.

Government spending is inherently flawed because you place the market under control of political whim instead of the free market. It is capitalism that drove us to being the greatest nation on earth, and now when it is time to make use of that strength you spit on it.

You are embracing something that will drive us deeper into poverty. Perhaps you do this on purpose.

 

[Genx87]

k

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
One does not need to be a religious nut, as you suggest, to oppose the government and its waste. Spending is not the only way to put money into the hands of people, you fail to understand how taxed we are and how a reduction in taxation is all the money people would need to revive a healthy economy.

Government spending is inherently flawed because you place the market under control of political whim instead of the free market. It is capitalism that drove us to being the greatest nation on earth, and now when it is time to make use of that strength you spit on it.

You are embracing something that will drive us deeper into poverty. Perhaps you do this on purpose.

Your argument is based upon the premise that the freer a market is, the better it is.

 

[StageLeft]

Excess spending got the world into this. It will not solve it, though it can dampen the blow. The fact is, the expansion was a loan to the future and now it's being paid back and if it's delayed it will still be paid back later. All we're trying to do now after drinking so much and knowing a hangover is coming after we go to bed is staying up, but ultimately we have to go to bed and tomorrow we'll spend the day puking up our guts, there's no way around it.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I get it. We got into this mess with Bush spending too much.. but we get out of it by spending more. I get it, thanks for clearing that up. When Bush spends = waste. Obama spends = Stimulus.

 

[OCGuy]

*golf clap*

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Wow...just wow.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: dphantom
You won't find fiscal conservative republicans who were cheerleaders as you put it of Bush's budgets. We don't need to be born again, we've been there all along.

Really? None of your guys were cheerleading the Iraq war?

Really?

or TARP?

Really?

Hmm.....


Here's a short list of some more fakers in Congress, dripping in moral consternation:

? Gov. Tim Pawlenty (R-MN), who complained that the ?federal government is spending money they don?t have,? told Rachel Maddow he would nevertheless accept funds for Minnesota: ?Our view is, if you buy the pizza, it?s OK if you have a slice.?

? Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who also campaigned ardently against the bill, said he would nevertheless gladly accept its funds for his state. ?You don?t want to be crazy here,? he said.

? Rep. John Mica (R-FL) gushed over the bill, which he, too, voted against. ?I applaud President Obama?s recognition that high-speed rail should be part of America?s future,? he said in a press release.

? Rep. Don Young (R-AK) boasted that he ?won a victory for?Alaska small business owners? in the recovery bill he refused to vote for.


Yeah so anyways.....

 

[fisheerman]

Originally posted by: Dari
The people that are against the stimulus package argue that it's wasteful and too expensive. These are the same idiots that were cheerleaders of wasteful spending by the previous Bush Administration and state planning by Alan Greenspan when he set the interest rates artificially low in order to generate growth. Well, let's remember that times like these is when government is supposed to step in and spend money, independent of whether or not we have a current account deficit. To make my point even more clear, the recession we're going through now is global and everyone has to spend in order for us to get out of it. Worse, quickly trying to balance the budget in the face of a nasty recession will only make it worse, deepening the deficit and recession. Don't believe me? Just ask the Hashimoto government of 1997.

A new economic order is sorely needed and it will be a global effort. But considering how our central bank has exhausted monetary policy, fiscal policy is all we have left.

^^^^^just for a little history lesson this is the main reason that the repubs were booted out of office. A lot of fiscal conservatives (that were mostly part of the Repub base) were absent at the ballot box this year because of this.

Ill state what most in here already know. The bulk of the nation is squarely in the middle when it come to politics and will sway center left or center right depending on how screwed up the current administrations has got things.

Sadly all you ever see on TV, news, media, P&N is far left and right wingers saying what is wrong with the other party.

Enjoy the ride it will not last long as the middle of the road mass gets feed up.

 

[SAWYER]

Originally posted by: Dari
The people that are against the stimulus package argue that it's wasteful and too expensive. These are the same idiots that were cheerleaders of wasteful spending by the previous Bush Administration and state planning by Alan Greenspan when he set the interest rates artificially low in order to generate growth. Well, let's remember that times like these is when government is supposed to step in and spend money, independent of whether or not we have a current account deficit. To make my point even more clear, the recession we're going through now is global and everyone has to spend in order for us to get out of it. Worse, quickly trying to balance the budget in the face of a nasty recession will only make it worse, deepening the deficit and recession. Don't believe me? Just ask the Hashimoto government of 1997.

A new economic order is sorely needed and it will be a global effort. But considering how our central bank has exhausted monetary policy, fiscal policy is all we have left.

Same could be said for the hypocritical lefties, but yeah both camps are disgustingly hypocritical, what can you do?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
I get it. We got into this mess with Bush spending too much.. but we get out of it by spending more. I get it, thanks for clearing that up. When Bush spends = waste. Obama spends = Stimulus.

:thumbsup:

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
I get it. We got into this mess with Bush spending too much.. but we get out of it by spending more. I get it, thanks for clearing that up. When Bush spends = waste. Obama spends = Stimulus.

:thumbsup:

It's almost like spending money on something bad can be a waste, and spending money on something valuable can be good. When I spend $700 at a strip club and you call it waste, but then spend $700 on rent and you call it responsible, what you're really showing is how hypocritical you are.

 

[bamacre]

Yet another bad effect of the Bush administration and its apologist. When the Democrats screw up, the Republicans don't have any credibility left with which to complain.

The only remaining with any credibility are those who oppose the actions of both parties, and we are horribly outnumbered.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Dari
The people that are against the stimulus package argue that it's wasteful and too expensive. These are the same idiots that were cheerleaders of wasteful spending by the previous Bush Administration and state planning by Alan Greenspan when he set the interest rates artificially low in order to generate growth.

No they're not. You're the idiot, making assumptions with no facts.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Yet another bad effect of the Bush administration and its apologist. When the Democrats screw up, the Republicans don't have any credibility left with which to complain.

The only remaining with any credibility are those who oppose the actions of both parties, and we are horribly outnumbered.

It's never been just the Bush administration. Republican governance hasn't been about fiscal conservatism any time in my lifetime, starting with Reagan.

Like I said before, there simply aren't very many Americans that are actually fiscal conservatives. It's not a popular ideology to actually implement, and that's why nobody does it. This is all fine by me, as I'm not a fiscal conservative.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: dphantom
You won't find fiscal conservative republicans.

Fixed.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
I get it. We got into this mess with Bush spending too much.. but we get out of it by spending more. I get it, thanks for clearing that up. When Bush spends = waste. Obama spends = Stimulus.

:thumbsup:

It's almost like spending money on something bad can be a waste, and spending money on something valuable can be good. When I spend $700 at a strip club and you call it waste, but then spend $700 on rent and you call it responsible, what you're really showing is how hypocritical you are.

Ah so the magical obama bill = rent, the shitty Bush bill = strip club


:roll:


They are both shit.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
I get it. We got into this mess with Bush spending too much.. but we get out of it by spending more. I get it, thanks for clearing that up. When Bush spends = waste. Obama spends = Stimulus.

:thumbsup:

It's almost like spending money on something bad can be a waste, and spending money on something valuable can be good. When I spend $700 at a strip club and you call it waste, but then spend $700 on rent and you call it responsible, what you're really showing is how hypocritical you are.

Ah so the magical obama bill = rent, the shitty Bush bill = strip club

:roll:

They are both shit.

So what? Fear No Evil was trying to make a statement about some sort of double standard that he thinks poor Bush has fallen victim to. While you're more than welcome to be against both spending provisions, there is no hypocrisy in liking government spending on things you support, and disliking it on things you don't.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Dari
The people that are against the stimulus package argue that it's wasteful and too expensive. These are the same idiots that were cheerleaders of wasteful spending by the previous Bush Administration and state planning by Alan Greenspan when he set the interest rates artificially low in order to generate growth. Well, let's remember that times like these is when government is supposed to step in and spend money, independent of whether or not we have a current account deficit. To make my point even more clear, the recession we're going through now is global and everyone has to spend in order for us to get out of it. Worse, quickly trying to balance the budget in the face of a nasty recession will only make it worse, deepening the deficit and recession. Don't believe me? Just ask the Hashimoto government of 1997.

A new economic order is sorely needed and it will be a global effort. But considering how our central bank has exhausted monetary policy, fiscal policy is all we have left.

You don't actually believe that bill will stimulate the economy do you.
all were doing is prolonging the recovery time sonny.
You cannot spend your way out of a recession anymore then you can spend your way out of financial problems when you get laid off.

 

[Zebo]

Obama is engaged in staving the beast he must have read Norquist.

And no, real conservatives hated Bush and his father both being spendthrifts. Most Republicans are finally starting to understand Bush did more damage to their party than Nixon with running huge deficits, nation building, welfare for the rich and preemption.

I'm with Jaskalas, except on the very top who by in large don't even have w-2 income perse and are not paying their 'fair' share compared to upper middle class who is paying over 50% right now when you add all taxes up. Government produces nothing, can only redistribute what is produced - as you penalize the producers with regulation and/or taxes excessively they will recoil and nothing gets done and taxes collected and will go down further. Obama knows this thus no new taxes. But his problem is he's causing by his huge spending the businessmen to see writing on the wall - they will get taxed - they will be regulated to death which is why layoffs and reduced spending right now is happening on the wink. Call it preemptive war on Obama letting him know just who is boss.

 

[Double Trouble]

OP = stupid. What the hell is a born-again conservative anyway? Are you trying to somehow link in religion? Government spending is at best a necessary evil, at worst a complete fleecing of the country. Both parties have indulged in both. I'm a conservative, and you won't find me arguing that the huge government spending increase under Bush was in any way a good thing. Even so, what happened under Bush is irrelevant in terms of grading the current administration. The current administration is basically saying "I'll see your trillions in waste, and I'll raise it. All-in!".

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
OP = stupid. What the hell is a born-again conservative anyway? Are you trying to somehow link in religion? Government spending is at best a necessary evil, at worst a complete fleecing of the country. Both parties have indulged in both. I'm a conservative, and you won't find me arguing that the huge government spending increase under Bush was in any way a good thing. Even so, what happened under Bush is irrelevant in terms of grading the current administration. The current administration is basically saying "I'll see your trillions in waste, and I'll raise it. All-in!".

Agreed and he's holding a 7-2 representing the way he spent it and Americans capacity to pay it back.

 

[Possessed Freak]

As a die hard capitalist and Republican, I don't have a problem stating that in 2000 I voted for Gore, in '04 I voted Nader and in '08 I voted McCain. I never approved of Bush's execution of the wars or how the Patriot Act came into being. As a capitalist, I do not understand rewarding the stupidity of banks or their customers with offering bad loans and now bailing them out. As a capitalist, I do not understand the concept of too big to fail.

I am not a born again anything. My core beliefs have remained, and I hope new leadership comes in the form of a true fiscal conservative.