A low cost intel rig?

[perdomot]

A buddy wants to upgrade a 4-5 year old P4 rig and asked my advice about upgrading. His budget is very limited so I suggested an AMD rig with the following parts:

AMD 5000+BE - $70
Gigabyte 780G - $90
Sapphire 3450 - $19
2GB OCZ ram -$19.50

I explained to him that the cpu OCs to 3Ghz easily and the mobo/vga card enables hybrid graphics which is perfect for him as he isn't a gamer but plays a lot of video including HD. Unfortunately, he is used to intel and knows the current generation is faster than AMD. When I explained to him that intel has nothing as a total package for his budget, he didn't believe me. I've looked around but see nothing that offers the performance of the above combo for under $200(his budget). Am I missing something in a particular set which would rival the AMD combo?

 

[Idontcare]

Is the Sapphire 3450 really neceassry with the 780G?

 

[Shortass]

Just looking at cost alone, and 2 of the parts you listed:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116052 - Intel Pentium E2180 Allendale 2.0GHz 1MB L2 Cache $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813138122 - BIOSTAR TForce TP43D2A7 LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $90

Of course performance would be a different story, especially when taking OCing into consideration. Unfortunately I have no experience with either chip, but benchmarks likely exist on the nets.

 

[Denithor]

AMD typically offers better value in the very low cost space. Their processors aren't quite as fast as Intel chips but they're no slouches either. And for HD playback and video work in general the AMD/nVidia integrated graphics are much better (check out the benchmark results here).

My suggestions:
AMD 4850e (2.5GHz, 1MB cache, 45W) $80
Foxconn 780G $67

Pair these up with the memory you found and he's good to go. No need for the separate video card, this motherboard will offload HD decoding from the CPU just fine. Total cost well below the desired $200.

EDIT: And keep in mind the 5000+ BE doesn't include a heatsink/fan so you will have extra expense there.

 

[Extelleron]

$200 Budget..... AMD is the better choice usually in this price range, especially if he isn't overclocking. Overclocking it is arguable, stock settings the AMD CPUs in that range are faster without a doubt. And Intel has nothing that can match the 780G platform.

CPU - AMD X2 5000+ 2.6GHz - $66
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103211
Mobo - Biostar 780G Mobo - $70 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813138105
Memory - Corsair 2GB (1GBx2) DDR2-800 4-4-4-12, $33.00 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145034

Total: $169.00 AR

Can you do better with Intel within that price range? Depends on your priorities.

CPU - Intel E2180 2.0GHz - $69.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116052
Mobo - Gigabyte P35 D3SL - $84.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128337
Memory - Corsair 2GB (1GBx2) DDR2-800 4-4-4-12, $33.00 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145034
GPU - Sapphire HD 2600XT 256MB - $34.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102755

Total: $223.00 AR

Well.... which one is better? Depends on what he plans on doing. At stock settings, a 2.6GHz X2 5000+ is much faster than a 2GHz E2180. Overclocked, they will probably be around the same speed. In terms of graphics, the HD 2600XT is going to blow the 780G IGP out of the water. Actually I like the Intel platform better....as long as you do some light overclocking (with 10x multiplier just go to 2.66GHz, 266x10.... should be an easy and stable OC with stock cooler), and if he ever plays a game it will be 10x better than the IGP. Power consumption is going to be much higher with the 2600XT versus 780G, but if he has a P4 right now I don't think we need to worry about that too much. On the other hand the Intel platform costs $60 more. But it's not that far outside of his $200 budget.

If he's dead set on Intel.... go with the Intel platform I outlined above. If not.... either go with the 780G or purchase an AMD 770 board like the Abit AX78 and purchase that HD 2600XT. If he won't OC, I'd say for sure try to convince him to go with an AMD processor.

 

[RussianSensation]

$50 - BIOSTAR G31-M7 TE LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX (supports 1600FSB)
$70 - 2.0ghz E2180 Allendale
$80 - 8800GS
$20 - OCZ 2GB of DDR2 800 CL4
*All of the above come with Free Shipping.

Total: $220 after MIRs (It's $20 over budget but 8800GS is well worth the $20)

Note: on a tight budget, always save $ on motherboard and ram first.

You can probably overclock this processor all the way to 3.33ghz+ (at multiplier of 10) on stock cooling. With 1600FSB mobo and DDR2 800 ram, this setup will also be ready for Q6600 at 9x400 without overclocking the ram or the motherboard

2160 @ 3.0ghz keeps up with the big boys

 

[taltamir]

what about the rest of the system?
The 3450 is not needed with a 780G mobo. Unless you want to hybrid CF them... in which case I wouldn't do it, if he plans to game at all then he should get a beefier GPU.

anyways, you want to OC it to 3ghz? mmm... intel OCes better right now. But budget being what it is...

Yea the 4850e is probably a better idea. An advantage of the e series is lower power consumption that decreases cost of operation, it should also OC better.

even on his budget I would get 4GB of ram.

 

[stuff311]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Well.... which one is better? Depends on what he plans on doing. At stock settings, a 2.6GHz X2 5000+ is much faster than a 2GHz E2180.

Not true. Take a look at this article. An intel 2160 darn near matches the 5000 throughout the article. Now, look at the difference between the 2160 and the 2140. Now imagine that same increase between the 2160 and the 2180. The 2180 will either match or outdo the 5000. Then look at the page where they OC it. It kills it. A 2180 at 3330mhz is easy to obtain and will most certainly outperform a 5000, even if the 5000 is running past 3ghz. It will be cooler and consume less power under load as well.

BTW, I own the BIOSTAR board shortass mentions in his post. It's running stable at 355X8 with my 6400, so 333X10 should be a cinch to hit with the 2180. Pair this with those newegg specials for memory and vid card you listed above, and you're at your budget.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
At stock settings, a 2.6GHz X2 5000+ is much faster than a 2GHz E2180. Overclocked, they will probably be around the same speed.

Actually, an X2 5000+ is only 5% faster overall compared to an E2180. Overall, the E2000 chips have a 22 - 23% advantage per clock over a Brisbane X2. Thus I fail to see how the X2 can even come close to keeping up in an overclocked environment, considering both chips are equally likely to overclock to the low 3GHz range on standard air cooling.

Anyway, in reply to the OP, if all your friend wants to do is playback HD video, there is nothing wrong with an AMD setup, any low end X2 with a 780G mobo will do, in fact I'd stay away from the X2 5000+ BE as it doesn't come with a HSF. The HD3450 is also unnecessary since the 780G IGP on its own is sufficient for decoding HD.

Of course if you are looking for an overclocking platform its a different story. Something similar to RussianSensation's suggestion could easily push an E2180 to 3GHz, and you can come well under the $200 budget with a lower end GPU.

Btw, if your friend is really set on an Intel platform, wait a month or so for the E5200 to launch. It will cost $84, but even at stock would perform equivalent to an X2 6400+. Overclocked to near 4GHz it would crush any overclocked X2 (or E2000 for that matter).

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: harpoon84

Originally posted by: Extelleron
At stock settings, a 2.6GHz X2 5000+ is much faster than a 2GHz E2180. Overclocked, they will probably be around the same speed.

Actually, an X2 5000+ is only 5% faster overall compared to an E2180. Overall, the E2000 chips have a 22 - 23% advantage per clock over a Brisbane X2. Thus I fail to see how the X2 can even come close to keeping up in an overclocked environment, considering both chips are equally likely to overclock to the low 3GHz range on standard air cooling.

Anyway, in reply to the OP, if all your friend wants to do is playback HD video, I'd stick with AMD, any low end X2 with a 780G mobo will do, in fact I'd stay away from the X2 5000+ BE as it doesn't come with a HSF. The HD3450 is also unnecessary since the 780G IGP on its own is sufficient for decoding HD.

Of course if you are looking for an overclocking platform its a different story. Something similar to RussianSensation's suggestion could easily push an E2180 to 3GHz, and you can come well under the $200 budget with a lower end GPU.

5% faster is still 5% faster. And that number means little because it is a blanket number and will not necessarily reflect what this guy is going to be doing with his PC. The E2180 we are talking about is nothing more than a stripped down Core 2... it's the same Conroe core you see in something like the E6850. The only difference is cache.... so there will be instances where the E2xxx CPUs perform just as well as even the E6xxx's, barring FSB/clock differences of course. But in other situations the 1MB of shared L2 is just not enough to feed the cores and performance collapses. So performance is more uneven with the E2xxx than the E6xxx which has sufficient cache to feed the cores with data. If you do something like gaming, the difference is 15-20% between the E2180 & X2 5000+. The bottom line is that most of the time the X2 5000+ is faster. In certain situations the difference is small, in others the difference is large.

I already said that I would recommend an E2180 over the AMD system if he is willing to OC. Some people value a 100% stable system more than raw performance and that was not made clear in the OP. What might be a good idea is to wait for the E5200 to come out; it will be out this quarter and will be clocked at 2.5GHz with 2MB L2 and priced at $84. Close to 4GHz can be expected with overclocking, and it will likely beat any Athlon X2 at stock 2.5GHz anyway. So that is certainly something to consider.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
5% faster is still 5% faster. And that number means little because it is a blanket number and will not necessarily reflect what this guy is going to be doing with his PC. The E2180 we are talking about is nothing more than a stripped down Core 2... it's the same Conroe core you see in something like the E6850. The only difference is cache.... so there will be instances where the E2xxx CPUs perform just as well as even the E6xxx's, barring FSB/clock differences of course. But in other situations the 1MB of shared L2 is just not enough to feed the cores and performance collapses. So performance is more uneven with the E2xxx than the E6xxx which has sufficient cache to feed the cores with data. If you do something like gaming, the difference is 15-20% between the E2180 & X2 5000+. The bottom line is that most of the time the X2 5000+ is faster. In certain situations the difference is small, in others the difference is large.

I already said that I would recommend an E2180 over the AMD system if he is willing to OC. Some people value a 100% stable system more than raw performance and that was not made clear in the OP. What might be a good idea is to wait for the E5200 to come out; it will be out this quarter and will be clocked at 2.5GHz with 2MB L2 and priced at $84. Close to 4GHz can be expected with overclocking, and it will likely beat any Athlon X2 at stock 2.5GHz anyway. So that is certainly something to consider.

5% is not 'much faster', at least in my books. It may be a 'blanket number' but it sure beats a 'blanket statement' that something is 'much faster' when in reality it isn't. I'd take an objective figure over a subjective claim any day. Apart from gaming, where the E2180 is weakest, the two chips trade blows depending on the app or benchmark. I'm also well aware of the differences between an E2000 and E6000 C2D, but thanks anyway...

On the E5200, I'd agree, in fact I edited my last post whilst you were replying.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: harpoon84

Originally posted by: Extelleron
5% faster is still 5% faster. And that number means little because it is a blanket number and will not necessarily reflect what this guy is going to be doing with his PC. The E2180 we are talking about is nothing more than a stripped down Core 2... it's the same Conroe core you see in something like the E6850. The only difference is cache.... so there will be instances where the E2xxx CPUs perform just as well as even the E6xxx's, barring FSB/clock differences of course. But in other situations the 1MB of shared L2 is just not enough to feed the cores and performance collapses. So performance is more uneven with the E2xxx than the E6xxx which has sufficient cache to feed the cores with data. If you do something like gaming, the difference is 15-20% between the E2180 & X2 5000+. The bottom line is that most of the time the X2 5000+ is faster. In certain situations the difference is small, in others the difference is large.

I already said that I would recommend an E2180 over the AMD system if he is willing to OC. Some people value a 100% stable system more than raw performance and that was not made clear in the OP. What might be a good idea is to wait for the E5200 to come out; it will be out this quarter and will be clocked at 2.5GHz with 2MB L2 and priced at $84. Close to 4GHz can be expected with overclocking, and it will likely beat any Athlon X2 at stock 2.5GHz anyway. So that is certainly something to consider.

5% is not 'much faster', at least in my books. It may be a 'blanket number' but it sure beats a 'blanket statement' that something is 'much faster' when in reality it isn't. I'd take an objective figure over a subjective claim any day. Apart from gaming, where the E2180 is weakest, the two chips trade blows depending on the app or benchmark. I'm also well aware of the differences between an E2000 and E6000 C2D, but thanks anyway...

On the E5200, I'd agree, in fact I edited my last post whilst you were replying.

I don't normally look much beyond the gaming results so for me, the 5000+ is around 15% faster. Explaining the lack of cache that E2xxx CPUs suffer with helps show that in certain situations they will be much slower than E4xxx or E6xxx C2D's and actually not too much faster per clock than the A64; in these situations my statement of "much faster" is 100% accurate. The bottom line is that there are really no situations where the E2180 is faster beyond one or two outliers. So it is not like I was misleading anybody.

If this guy has survived so long on a P4 he probably doesn't do much anything intensive anyway. So he is probably going to be fine no matter what CPU he picks. If all he does is videos he'd probably be fine just sticking in that HD 2600XT or an HD 3450 (depending on how old a P4 though he probably doesn't have a PCI-e slot though).

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
I don't normally look much beyond the gaming results so for me, the 5000+ is around 15% faster. Explaining the lack of cache that E2xxx CPUs suffer with helps show that in certain situations they will be much slower than E4xxx or E6xxx C2D's and actually not too much faster per clock than the A64; in these situations my statement of "much faster" is 100% accurate. The bottom line is that there are really no situations where the E2180 is faster beyond one or two outliers. So it is not like I was misleading anybody.

If this guy has survived so long on a P4 he probably doesn't do much anything intensive anyway. So he is probably going to be fine no matter what CPU he picks. If all he does is videos he'd probably be fine just sticking in that HD 2600XT or an HD 3450 (depending on how old a P4 though he probably doesn't have a PCI-e slot though).

I guessed you missed the part in the OPs post that read:

I explained to him that the cpu OCs to 3Ghz easily and the mobo/vga card enables hybrid graphics which is perfect for him as he isn't a gamer but plays a lot of video including HD.

Gaming performance is not important in this case, and even if it were, you'll be so GPU bottlenecked on a HD3450 or even 2600XT there will be virtually no difference. As I said earlier, apart from gaming, an E2180 is generally very competitive with an X2 5000+.

 

[perdomot]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
Is the Sapphire 3450 really neceassry with the 780G?

Its not necessary but the nice boost the Hybrid video gives you for less than $20 looks good to me. The 780G seems to really shine on video but not so much on games so the extra power would be nice.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: harpoon84

Originally posted by: Extelleron
I don't normally look much beyond the gaming results so for me, the 5000+ is around 15% faster. Explaining the lack of cache that E2xxx CPUs suffer with helps show that in certain situations they will be much slower than E4xxx or E6xxx C2D's and actually not too much faster per clock than the A64; in these situations my statement of "much faster" is 100% accurate. The bottom line is that there are really no situations where the E2180 is faster beyond one or two outliers. So it is not like I was misleading anybody.

If this guy has survived so long on a P4 he probably doesn't do much anything intensive anyway. So he is probably going to be fine no matter what CPU he picks. If all he does is videos he'd probably be fine just sticking in that HD 2600XT or an HD 3450 (depending on how old a P4 though he probably doesn't have a PCI-e slot though).

I guessed you missed the part in the OPs post that read:

I explained to him that the cpu OCs to 3Ghz easily and the mobo/vga card enables hybrid graphics which is perfect for him as he isn't a gamer but plays a lot of video including HD.

Gaming performance is not important in this case, and even if it were, you'll be so GPU bottlenecked on a HD3450 or even 2600XT there will be virtually no difference. As I said earlier, apart from gaming, an E2180 is generally very competitive with an X2 5000+.

No I did not miss that. If you read what I said you will see that I never said or implied that I was reading benchmarks of the X2 5000+ vs E2180 and looking at the gaming results because I thought that the person in question was a big gamer. I don't necessarily look at benches every time I make a statement. Considering that I am most interested in gaming results when looking at a review, when I recall the performance of a CPU that is probably what I will be recalling.

This is starting to turn into a police investigation. I made a statement that the X2 5000+ was faster and in hindsight I exaggerated a bit as to the extent of the difference between the two. And in fact I recommended the Intel build over the AMD anyway. But this discussion is not furthering the topic and certainly not helping the OP. How about we move on.

I'd say that RussianSensation's build is the best right now in terms of performance, as long as the G31 mobo is a good overclocker, which it seems to be. The 8800GS may be excessive though if this guy doesnt' game at all. The HD 2600XT I linked to before is OOS right now..... but if the guy is never going to pick up a game that $20 HD 3450 will be fine. That right there could save $60, bringing the total to $160, well within the budget.

 

[perdomot]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
$200 Budget..... AMD is the better choice usually in this price range, especially if he isn't overclocking. Overclocking it is arguable, stock settings the AMD CPUs in that range are faster without a doubt. And Intel has nothing that can match the 780G platform.

CPU - AMD X2 5000+ 2.6GHz - $66
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103211
Mobo - Biostar 780G Mobo - $70 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813138105
Memory - Corsair 2GB (1GBx2) DDR2-800 4-4-4-12, $33.00 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145034

Total: $169.00 AR

Can you do better with Intel within that price range? Depends on your priorities.

CPU - Intel E2180 2.0GHz - $69.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116052
Mobo - Gigabyte P35 D3SL - $84.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128337
Memory - Corsair 2GB (1GBx2) DDR2-800 4-4-4-12, $33.00 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145034
GPU - Sapphire HD 2600XT 256MB - $34.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102755

Total: $223.00 AR

Well.... which one is better? Depends on what he plans on doing. At stock settings, a 2.6GHz X2 5000+ is much faster than a 2GHz E2180. Overclocked, they will probably be around the same speed. In terms of graphics, the HD 2600XT is going to blow the 780G IGP out of the water. Actually I like the Intel platform better....as long as you do some light overclocking (with 10x multiplier just go to 2.66GHz, 266x10.... should be an easy and stable OC with stock cooler), and if he ever plays a game it will be 10x better than the IGP. Power consumption is going to be much higher with the 2600XT versus 780G, but if he has a P4 right now I don't think we need to worry about that too much. On the other hand the Intel platform costs $60 more. But it's not that far outside of his $200 budget.

If he's dead set on Intel.... go with the Intel platform I outlined above. If not.... either go with the 780G or purchase an AMD 770 board like the Abit AX78 and purchase that HD 2600XT. If he won't OC, I'd say for sure try to convince him to go with an AMD processor.

Is the 2600XT faster than the HD3450 + the hybrid video?

 

[harpoon84]

Fair enough, I actually agree with most of your points, but in the context of the OP I didn't deem gaming performance to be of much importance. To avoid derailing this thread, I will just leave things at that.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: perdomot
Is the 2600XT faster than the HD3450 + the hybrid video?

For gaming? Yes.

http://www.tomshardware.com/re...g-chipset,1785-10.html

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: perdomot

Originally posted by: Extelleron
$200 Budget..... AMD is the better choice usually in this price range, especially if he isn't overclocking. Overclocking it is arguable, stock settings the AMD CPUs in that range are faster without a doubt. And Intel has nothing that can match the 780G platform.

CPU - AMD X2 5000+ 2.6GHz - $66
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103211
Mobo - Biostar 780G Mobo - $70 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813138105
Memory - Corsair 2GB (1GBx2) DDR2-800 4-4-4-12, $33.00 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145034

Total: $169.00 AR

Can you do better with Intel within that price range? Depends on your priorities.

CPU - Intel E2180 2.0GHz - $69.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116052
Mobo - Gigabyte P35 D3SL - $84.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128337
Memory - Corsair 2GB (1GBx2) DDR2-800 4-4-4-12, $33.00 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145034
GPU - Sapphire HD 2600XT 256MB - $34.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102755

Total: $223.00 AR

Well.... which one is better? Depends on what he plans on doing. At stock settings, a 2.6GHz X2 5000+ is much faster than a 2GHz E2180. Overclocked, they will probably be around the same speed. In terms of graphics, the HD 2600XT is going to blow the 780G IGP out of the water. Actually I like the Intel platform better....as long as you do some light overclocking (with 10x multiplier just go to 2.66GHz, 266x10.... should be an easy and stable OC with stock cooler), and if he ever plays a game it will be 10x better than the IGP. Power consumption is going to be much higher with the 2600XT versus 780G, but if he has a P4 right now I don't think we need to worry about that too much. On the other hand the Intel platform costs $60 more. But it's not that far outside of his $200 budget.

If he's dead set on Intel.... go with the Intel platform I outlined above. If not.... either go with the 780G or purchase an AMD 770 board like the Abit AX78 and purchase that HD 2600XT. If he won't OC, I'd say for sure try to convince him to go with an AMD processor.

Is the 2600XT faster than the HD3450 + the hybrid video?

Definitely. Hybrid Crossfire doesn't really provide good performance for your money. First of all you are paying a bit extra for the 780G than a decent 770 board or nVidia 500 series board. Then you are paying for the 3450. Meanwhile for $10 more you can have a single HD 2600XT.

Here are some performance benches, including 780G + 3450 versus HD 2600XT: http://www.tomshardware.com/re...g-chipset,1785-11.html

 

[taltamir]

plus you are dealing with more bugs, more driver issues, scaling problems, and micro stutter.
Overall I would not use it.

 

[perdomot]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
$50 - BIOSTAR G31-M7 TE LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX (supports 1600FSB)
$70 - 2.0ghz E2180 Allendale
$80 - 8800GS
$20 - OCZ 2GB of DDR2 800 CL4
*All of the above come with Free Shipping.

Total: $220 after MIRs (It's $20 over budget but 8800GS is well worth the $20)

Note: on a tight budget, always save $ on motherboard and ram first.

You can probably overclock this processor all the way to 3.33ghz+ (at multiplier of 10) on stock cooling. With 1600FSB mobo and DDR2 800 ram, this setup will also be ready for Q6600 at 9x400 without overclocking the ram or the motherboard

2160 @ 3.0ghz keeps up with the big boys

I like this combo but have to say that the mobo is quite underwhelming. No gigabit ehternet, esata, firewire, DVI, HDMI or HD audio on the back like the AMD 780G mobo from Gigabyte has. My buddy isn't a gamer so I don't think the vid card will make as much of a difference as the mobo options.

 

[perdomot]

Originally posted by: harpoon84

Originally posted by: Extelleron
At stock settings, a 2.6GHz X2 5000+ is much faster than a 2GHz E2180. Overclocked, they will probably be around the same speed.

Actually, an X2 5000+ is only 5% faster overall compared to an E2180. Overall, the E2000 chips have a 22 - 23% advantage per clock over a Brisbane X2. Thus I fail to see how the X2 can even come close to keeping up in an overclocked environment, considering both chips are equally likely to overclock to the low 3GHz range on standard air cooling.

Anyway, in reply to the OP, if all your friend wants to do is playback HD video, there is nothing wrong with an AMD setup, any low end X2 with a 780G mobo will do, in fact I'd stay away from the X2 5000+ BE as it doesn't come with a HSF. The HD3450 is also unnecessary since the 780G IGP on its own is sufficient for decoding HD.

Of course if you are looking for an overclocking platform its a different story. Something similar to RussianSensation's suggestion could easily push an E2180 to 3GHz, and you can come well under the $200 budget with a lower end GPU.

Btw, if your friend is really set on an Intel platform, wait a month or so for the E5200 to launch. It will cost $84, but even at stock would perform equivalent to an X2 6400+. Overclocked to near 4GHz it would crush any overclocked X2 (or E2000 for that matter).

My buddy is very leery of any OCing. The 5000+BE appeals a little because all you have to do is change the multi to get to right around 3Ghz and no voltage adjustments are needed up to that point. I suggested the HD3450 just because the price is so low and it would give a nice boost. Hadn't heard about the 5200 but that sounds pretty promising so far.

 

[perdomot]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: harpoon84

Originally posted by: Extelleron
At stock settings, a 2.6GHz X2 5000+ is much faster than a 2GHz E2180. Overclocked, they will probably be around the same speed.

Actually, an X2 5000+ is only 5% faster overall compared to an E2180. Overall, the E2000 chips have a 22 - 23% advantage per clock over a Brisbane X2. Thus I fail to see how the X2 can even come close to keeping up in an overclocked environment, considering both chips are equally likely to overclock to the low 3GHz range on standard air cooling.

Anyway, in reply to the OP, if all your friend wants to do is playback HD video, I'd stick with AMD, any low end X2 with a 780G mobo will do, in fact I'd stay away from the X2 5000+ BE as it doesn't come with a HSF. The HD3450 is also unnecessary since the 780G IGP on its own is sufficient for decoding HD.

Of course if you are looking for an overclocking platform its a different story. Something similar to RussianSensation's suggestion could easily push an E2180 to 3GHz, and you can come well under the $200 budget with a lower end GPU.

5% faster is still 5% faster. And that number means little because it is a blanket number and will not necessarily reflect what this guy is going to be doing with his PC. The E2180 we are talking about is nothing more than a stripped down Core 2... it's the same Conroe core you see in something like the E6850. The only difference is cache.... so there will be instances where the E2xxx CPUs perform just as well as even the E6xxx's, barring FSB/clock differences of course. But in other situations the 1MB of shared L2 is just not enough to feed the cores and performance collapses. So performance is more uneven with the E2xxx than the E6xxx which has sufficient cache to feed the cores with data. If you do something like gaming, the difference is 15-20% between the E2180 & X2 5000+. The bottom line is that most of the time the X2 5000+ is faster. In certain situations the difference is small, in others the difference is large.

I already said that I would recommend an E2180 over the AMD system if he is willing to OC. Some people value a 100% stable system more than raw performance and that was not made clear in the OP. What might be a good idea is to wait for the E5200 to come out; it will be out this quarter and will be clocked at 2.5GHz with 2MB L2 and priced at $84. Close to 4GHz can be expected with overclocking, and it will likely beat any Athlon X2 at stock 2.5GHz anyway. So that is certainly something to consider.

A 100% stable system is critical to my buddy who dreads OCing. Only a BE cpu where you just change the multi is acceptable to him and barely that.

 

[perdomot]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: perdomot

Originally posted by: Extelleron
$200 Budget..... AMD is the better choice usually in this price range, especially if he isn't overclocking. Overclocking it is arguable, stock settings the AMD CPUs in that range are faster without a doubt. And Intel has nothing that can match the 780G platform.

CPU - AMD X2 5000+ 2.6GHz - $66
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103211
Mobo - Biostar 780G Mobo - $70 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813138105
Memory - Corsair 2GB (1GBx2) DDR2-800 4-4-4-12, $33.00 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145034

Total: $169.00 AR

Can you do better with Intel within that price range? Depends on your priorities.

CPU - Intel E2180 2.0GHz - $69.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116052
Mobo - Gigabyte P35 D3SL - $84.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128337
Memory - Corsair 2GB (1GBx2) DDR2-800 4-4-4-12, $33.00 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820145034
GPU - Sapphire HD 2600XT 256MB - $34.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102755

Total: $223.00 AR

Well.... which one is better? Depends on what he plans on doing. At stock settings, a 2.6GHz X2 5000+ is much faster than a 2GHz E2180. Overclocked, they will probably be around the same speed. In terms of graphics, the HD 2600XT is going to blow the 780G IGP out of the water. Actually I like the Intel platform better....as long as you do some light overclocking (with 10x multiplier just go to 2.66GHz, 266x10.... should be an easy and stable OC with stock cooler), and if he ever plays a game it will be 10x better than the IGP. Power consumption is going to be much higher with the 2600XT versus 780G, but if he has a P4 right now I don't think we need to worry about that too much. On the other hand the Intel platform costs $60 more. But it's not that far outside of his $200 budget.

If he's dead set on Intel.... go with the Intel platform I outlined above. If not.... either go with the 780G or purchase an AMD 770 board like the Abit AX78 and purchase that HD 2600XT. If he won't OC, I'd say for sure try to convince him to go with an AMD processor.

Is the 2600XT faster than the HD3450 + the hybrid video?

Definitely. Hybrid Crossfire doesn't really provide good performance for your money. First of all you are paying a bit extra for the 780G than a decent 770 board or nVidia 500 series board. Then you are paying for the 3450. Meanwhile for $10 more you can have a single HD 2600XT.

Here are some performance benches, including 780G + 3450 versus HD 2600XT: http://www.tomshardware.com/re...g-chipset,1785-11.html

Thanks to you and Harpoon above for the 2600XT info. Cheapest card I can find is around $60 at Newegg so its a bit much for a budget build like his since he's not a gamer.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: perdomot
A 100% stable system is critical to my buddy who dreads OCing. Only a BE cpu where you just change the multi is acceptable to him and barely that.

The easiest way to O/C an E2180 would be simply changing the FSB from 200MHz to the factory preset 266MHz or 333MHz options in the BIOS and you end up with a 2.66GHz or 3.33GHz chip. The 333FSB option may need a little more tinkering with voltages and maybe better cooling, but 266FSB should be stable on stock cooling and voltages.

I don't see how pushing the FSB from 200 -> 266 is any more 'daunting' than say increasing the multiplier up a few notches. Both need about the same amount of time and effort in the BIOS, about 30 seconds.