A lot of water got in trunk somehow

[Pacfanweb]

Looking today from outside the car with trunk lid up I spotted 2 more leak points. The water trails come from what appear to be bolt attachment points from the left tail light. They appear to drain into a well behind the left wheel, not where the water pooled under the spare. I suspect that water has been getting through the gasket interface with the trunk lid. Don't know for sure, but there's absolutely evidence that water has gotten on the other side of the gasket (the gasket seat on steel flange is quite wet) and there's telltale track of muddy water on the in-side of the gasket. That doesn't prove that the water got through the gasket seal, might have gotten there some other way, but the gasket seal is suspect.

I figure I'll use clear silicone on the tail light bolts. Don't know how to deal with the gasket other than replacing it. That's what I'd need to do for the gasket, right? I could try Boomerang's idea of vegetable oil on the gasket surface and see if it makes contact all around. Then wipe off the vegetable oil, I suppose, with a rag.

Okay, tail lights are a notorious leak point. If the car has a "foam" type of gasket on the tail light, and if it's not falling to pieces when you remove the light, then you can clean it up good and reseal it with silicone. That should stop it.

I doubt water is coming by the trunk seal itself, unless the car has been tweaked in some way.
If the seal doesn't look bad, get some Sil Glyde from a parts store and lube it. Also, look from inside the trunk while it's closed and see if you see any daylight. If you can, it's likely that something is bent.

 

[Meghan54]

I doubt water is coming by the trunk seal itself, unless the car has been tweaked in some way.
If the seal doesn't look bad, get some Sil Glyde from a parts store and lube it. Also, look from inside the trunk while it's closed and see if you see any daylight. If you can, it's likely that something is bent.

Looks can be deceiving. Have seen more than my share of trunk seals leaking, not from tearing or tweaking, but from the glue giving up, allowing the seal to appear fine but have very small gaps underneath.

But I agree, tail lights are probably the most common entry point.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Looks can be deceiving. Have seen more than my share of trunk seals leaking, not from tearing or tweaking, but from the glue giving up, allowing the seal to appear fine but have very small gaps underneath.

But I agree, tail lights are probably the most common entry point.

If the seal leaks because the glue gave up, that would make the water go underneath it which I described in an earlier post how that happens. In that case you don't need to replace the seal unless the seal is damaged. You just use silicone and seal it back down.

 

[Muse]

In the pic where the arrows are...where the 4 arrows are close together, it's green there. What part of the car is that? Is that the inside of the trunk lid, or the quarter panel?

That's the inside of the trunk lid, left of center viewed from behind the car, right of center viewed from inside the trunk.

 

[Muse]

If the seal leaks because the glue gave up, that would make the water go underneath it which I described in an earlier post how that happens. In that case you don't need to replace the seal unless the seal is damaged. You just use silicone and seal it back down.

I don't understand this reference to glue with respect to the seal. Now by seal I mean the interface between the gasket and the trunk lid. The gasket appears to be one solid piece of black rubber-like material that's basically a big circle which is probably about 10 feet long in circumference. It has a groove in it that fits over a steel flange that sticks up about 1/2 inch all the way around and as far as I can tell there's no glue involved, the gasket can be pried up from the flange easily enough and then shoved back down.

So, where is the glue you guys are talking about? Are you suggesting that the gasket is usually glued to the flange and that water may be passing through the gasket-flange connection?

The gasket it self looks to be in good condition, I don't see any bad spots.

I've been wondering if water is passing between this gasket and the trunk lid, accounting for the buildup of water under the spare. I can go in the car today and see if I can spot light passing through, take a close look. May get some rain Friday, is the forecast.

 

[Pacfanweb]

^Most trunk seals have some sort of glue or gummy stuff that helps hold it down where it's mounted around the opening.

Honestly...it only "helps". No gasket I've ever seen is truly "glued" down. It's there to help hold the gasket in place, and the keep water from going under the gasket then making it "up and over" into the trunk.

 

[Muse]

Yesterday I discovered my silicone had all gone bad. I had an old tube, unopened, but it wouldn't bleed caulk using caulking gun. I went to nearby HW store and bought a 2.8 oz squeeze tube of Silicone II white. Figured it would work as good as clear ( ), and I can use the leftover for my bathroom and kitchen.

I did about 7-8 spots in the trunk where I think water is or might be entering. I hope this gets it but I will not be the least bit surprised if it doesn't, if I've missed something major.

I found a leak on the right side that I think is probably from the antenna. I don't see where I can address the underside of the antenna, so I put a bead of silicone around the top where the mast inserts, from outside the trunk.

I see where there's entry for water in the license plate recess, but my take on that is that the water that enters drains into a long slot that drains into a long slot channel that is outside the gasket and just drains to the ground. I think that's the design. When I pour water into the channel it doesn't get in the car.

I may have missed something, like I say. May get a little rain tomorrow night, maybe nothing at all, is the forecast. I figure come March some real rain will come. Until then, I figure I should leave the carpet-mat in the garage. I'd just hate to have to start from scratch here. Guess I should re-talc the trunk and wait for some real rain. Maybe i should shoot water up the wheel wells with hose, though.

Could maybe take off the tail lights and check their gaskets. But the water that's coming from the tail lights, near as I can tell, enters the car via the bolts and I put beads of caulk around the bolts on the interior where I see trails from the talc.

 

[Muse]

I used GE Silicone II on the 8 or so spots where It looked like some water was penetrating, however slowly. That was a few days ago.

I just washed the car and a little water is still entering at the spot pointed at by the left-most arrows here:

I think the water is getting in through the seal. I don't believe it's getting between the seal and the trunk lid. What I think is happening is that the water's getting over the ~1/2" steel flange that the seal fixes on. The rubber seal pulls right off the flange, all around, and I see a lot of water all in the seal groove. Thus, water's passing over the flange. I see a black adhering substance, it's like a black putty, that's soft. There's also dirt on the flange and in the seal groove.

Once water gets over the flange I don't know how it's getting into the trunk, it's baffling, but I'm thinking that if I can stop water from getting through the seal groove/flange it will stop getting into the trunk.

I'm thinking I either have to buy and install a new seal or reseat the old seal with seal adhesive. The seal looks good, as far as I can tell, but I could be wrong. Anyway, getting the inside of the seal's groove clean and dry looks like not an easy thing to so. I was going to try using silicone but Youtube videos show people using squeeze tube adhesive, e.g. by a company called Steele. Anyone have a take on this?

 

[Pacfanweb]

I used GE Silicone II on the 8 or so spots where It looked like some water was penetrating, however slowly. That was a few days ago.

I just washed the car and a little water is still entering at the spot pointed at by the left-most arrows here:

I think the water is getting in through the seal. I don't believe it's getting between the seal and the trunk lid. What I think is happening is that the water's getting over the ~1/2" steel flange that the seal fixes on. The rubber seal pulls right off the flange, all around, and I see a lot of water all in the seal groove. Thus, water's passing over the flange. I see a black adhering substance, it's like a black putty, that's soft. There's also dirt on the flange and in the seal groove.

Once water gets over the flange I don't know how it's getting into the trunk, it's baffling, but I'm thinking that if I can stop water from getting through the seal groove/flange it will stop getting into the trunk.

I'm thinking I either have to buy and install a new seal or reseat the old seal with seal adhesive. The seal looks good, as far as I can tell, but I could be wrong. Anyway, getting the inside of the seal's groove clean and dry looks like not an easy thing to so. I was going to try using silicone but Youtube videos show people using squeeze tube adhesive, e.g. by a company called Steele. Anyone have a take on this?

Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to describe when I talked about the water going "up and over" underneath the seal earlier.

What I do with these is either get a new seal if the old one is getting iffy, or clean the old one with with a paper towel soaked with brake cleaner. Then take a tube of adhesive silicone and run a bead of it right at the bottom of the "flange", as you described it...right in the curve, about where the bottom of the seal is going to fit when it's installed.

Big bead, too. Then install the seal. Put a rubber/latex glove (I use Diamond Grips) and where the seal squeezed out the silicone, wipe it against the seal to make it "air tight".

Done. If that was your leak, it won't be now.

BTW, I use a caulking tube of silicone, not a squeeze tube. Squeeze tube might not be enough, and the caulking tube is easier to dispense anyway. Remember, ADHESIVE silicone. Not RTV. You can get it at pretty much any parts store.

 

[Z15CAM]

Leaking rear glass seal usually caused this syndrome for me.

 

[sontakke]

Remember, ADHESIVE silicone. Not RTV.

Can you link to these products? From limited google check, it seems that those terms are used interchangeably.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Can you link to these products? From limited google check, it seems that those terms are used interchangeably.

Okay, disregard the "not RTV" part. As many years as I've used this stuff, I never noticed it was also considered "RTV".

Just make sure it's the Adhesive silicone. Permatex is what I use.

Actually, I usually use the Carquest brand because it's the exact same thing, is made by Permatex, and is cheaper.

 

[Muse]

Okay, disregard the "not RTV" part. As many years as I've used this stuff, I never noticed it was also considered "RTV".

Just make sure it's the Adhesive silicone. Permatex is what I use.

Actually, I usually use the Carquest brand because it's the exact same thing, is made by Permatex, and is cheaper.

Thanks for that clarification, I was wondering. I'm going to print out this stuff for when I go into O'Reilly (likely) later today (it's 1AM now!), and pick up sealant. I was wondering about using brake cleaner to clean the gasket too. I could buy that, I guess, wonder if it's really the best thing to use. I had decided to watch some more Youtube videos for pointers on how to clean the gasket. There's gunk on it, kind of like black putty, also a lot of mud, it's wet in the crease and there are little pebbles in the crease too. I figured I'd use a screwdriver blade to pluck out any pebbles I see. I wonder about drying that very narrow crease out with a paper towel, if it's really possible. I figure just sitting out in the open on a warm day (it should be in the 70's here today), will help it dry out. Wonder how important it is for that crease to dry out too.

My impression is that some of the former sealant was on the flange, within the crease.

I'm going to get a caulking gun tube of sealant this time, as you recommend, Pacfanweb.

Some rain may happen soon. Looks like it's going to start raining Thursday (in 2 days) and then continue for a few days, so I hope to get the gasket seated (and cured) by then.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Thanks for that clarification, I was wondering. I'm going to print out this stuff for when I go into O'Reilly (likely) later today (it's 1AM now!), and pick up sealant. I was wondering about using brake cleaner to clean the gasket too. I could buy that, I guess, wonder if it's really the best thing to use. I had decided to watch some more Youtube videos for pointers on how to clean the gasket. There's gunk on it, kind of like black putty, also a lot of mud, it's wet in the crease and there are little pebbles in the crease too. I figured I'd use a screwdriver blade to pluck out any pebbles I see. I wonder about drying that very narrow crease out with a paper towel, if it's really possible. I figure just sitting out in the open on a warm day (it should be in the 70's here today), will help it dry out. Wonder how important it is for that crease to dry out too.

My impression is that some of the former sealant was on the flange, within the crease.

I'm going to get a caulking gun tube of sealant this time, as you recommend, Pacfanweb.

Some rain may happen soon. Looks like it's going to start raining Thursday (in 2 days) and then continue for a few days, so I hope to get the gasket seated (and cured) by then.

If the old sealer is kind of chunky looking inside the gasket, I take a screwdriver and run it down the gasket and scoop the chunks out. Then soak a paper towel with brake clean, jam it inside the gasket and take the same screwdriver that I have cleaned off by now and run the soap paper towel through there to clean it. Then goob the inside of it with the silicone and reinstall.
It does not have to be perfectly clean with no trace of the old sealer in there.

 

[Muse]

If the old sealer is kind of chunky looking inside the gasket, I take a screwdriver and run it down the gasket and scoop the chunks out. Then soak a paper towel with brake clean, jam it inside the gasket and take the same screwdriver that I have cleaned off by now and run the soap paper towel through there to clean it. Then goob the inside of it with the silicone and reinstall.
It does not have to be perfectly clean with no trace of the old sealer in there.

OK, you run a soapy paper towel in the gasket groove after having cleaned it out with paper towel soaked with brake clean and screwdriver? Any soap, like a solution of dish soap (Dawn?), or ivory bar soap? I'll be doing this in a few hours. I'm off on a junket right now and will get the caulk and brake clean. But I'll check the thread before rolling up and sleeves and getting to work. Thanks again for the help!

 

[LTC8K6]

OK, you run a soapy paper towel in the gasket groove after having cleaned it out with paper towel soaked with brake clean and screwdriver? Any soap, like a solution of dish soap (Dawn?), or ivory bar soap? I'll be doing this in a few hours. I'm off on a junket right now and will get the caulk and brake clean. But I'll check the thread before rolling up and sleeves and getting to work. Thanks again for the help!

I think "soap paper towel" should be "soaked paper towel", as in the towel soaked with brake cleaner.

No soap involved.

 

[Muse]

I think "soap paper towel" should be "soaked paper towel", as in the towel soaked with brake cleaner.

No soap involved.

Aha! Got it.

I just got back, wound up buying a 5oz tube of Permatex Super weather-strip Adhesive. They didn't have caulking tubes at O'Reilly. They did have black RTV Silicone but the dame said it wasn't the right stuff for this. They had 3M stuff, also 5oz squeeze tube and at $13 was $5 more than what I paid for the Permatex.

Now the Permatex instructions are to apply to both surfaces, wait 10 minutes and then join. I also went to Carquest where they didn't have Carquest adhesive but did have the 3M and the guy said he'd squeeze that into the stripping crevice all the way around after cleaning everything up and then shove it on the flange and done, should cure like that water tight. But doing this with Permatex, I don't know, I don't think I would want to wait 10 minutes or I might not be able to get the strip on the flange, assuming the solvents would evaporate as the instructions say. I think I may squeeze it into the crevice, seat the strip all around and hope/assume it will set up like that, applying any extra around the outside of the flange for additional adherence.

I'm going to start now by cleaning up the flange and strip, including the slot (crevice).

 

[Muse]

I think "soap paper towel" should be "soaked paper towel", as in the towel soaked with brake cleaner.

No soap involved.

At the Carquest wholesale outlet I went to today the guy said he was concerned about using brake cleaner on the trunk weather strip. He advised using Goo Gone, so I got a little bottle of that and have been using it to clean the gunk off of really the bottom/outside of the weather strip, where it will contact the painted metal surface just beyond the 1/2" flange.

I could use that on the inside of the crease, not sure. There's stuff in there, it's mostly if not entirely dry of water at this point (wasn't a couple of hours ago). After finishing with the Goo Gone where I'm using it I'm going to address the crease again. I'm hoping that the Permatex will make a seal in the crease as well as where the weather strip contacts the metal after shoving it on the flange. Don't know if I'm going to apply today, may wait for tomorrow. It's supposed to rain tomorrow night, there's only ~2.5 hours of light left this afternoon. Nice day, though, and I have the open trunk of the car in the sun, facing the sun.

 

[Muse]

Well, I applied the (Permatex #81731), but I'm very unsure about this. From the descriptions in this thread I thought it was a silicone, or very like a silicone, but this stuff is nothing like silicone. It's a gooey glue. The link is to a black tube, but mine is colored orange, but it's also #81731, so I suppose it's basically the same stuff. It comes out a slightly orange yellow and is glue-like. I applied it to the weather strip crease all around, then the outside bottom of the flange and then a little bead all around the top of the flange and then shoved the weather strip down on the flange, wiped things up some (did all this with latex gloves on) and then shut the trunk to make sure the strip sits down where it needs to be.

Hopefully, overnight it will be settled and not move when I open the trunk but I have my doubts. For one thing, the instructions say to apply and allow ten minutes for the solvents to evaporate. So, I have to wonder if they'll evaporate sitting under the strip. I suppose eventually. I hope the solvents don't play havoc with the strip material.

I wonder how good a seal I'm going to get. I'm thinking seriously of getting a 2.8oz tube of clear GE Silicone II tomorrow to apply all around the outside perimeter of the weather strip for additional assurance that moisture won't wick up through it!

 

[Muse]

I wonder how good a seal I'm going to get. I'm thinking seriously of getting a 2.8oz tube of clear GE Silicone II tomorrow to apply all around the outside perimeter of the weather strip for additional assurance that moisture won't wick up through it!

No replies?

I think I'm going to get a full caulking tube of that GE Silicone II Clear this morning. It's only a couple bucks more than the 2.8oz squeeze tube and who knows? In the week ahead it looks like there will be more than the maybe spotty showers they were expecting. So, I'll have a test, hopefully. I'll leave the matting in the garage for now and if there are still problems, I'll have the leftover from that silicone to deal with them.

 

[LTC8K6]

The Permatex should do the job. The trunk seal is weatherstripping and the Permatex is made for just such seals.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71fvGC9Oo2S.pdf

 

[Muse]

The Permatex should do the job. The trunk seal is weatherstripping and the Permatex is made for just such seals.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71fvGC9Oo2S.pdf

Thanks for that, I just printed it out.

I still have a mind to get that caulking tube of clear GE Silicone II and apply all around the outside of the strip as insurance this morning. I've put a lot into this, additional assurance that there are no leaks in that long long loop of a weather-strip seal will make me feel better. I'm going to have a look at the job right now then likely zip over to the local contractor friendly hardware store to get that tube. It's approaching 65 degrees, the minimum recommended temperature for application of that silicone. Big time rain 10 day window approaching starting in ~15 hours.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Well, I applied the (Permatex #81731), but I'm very unsure about this. From the descriptions in this thread I thought it was a silicone, or very like a silicone, but this stuff is nothing like silicone. It's a gooey glue. The link is to a black tube, but mine is colored orange, but it's also #81731, so I suppose it's basically the same stuff. It comes out a slightly orange yellow and is glue-like. I applied it to the weather strip crease all around, then the outside bottom of the flange and then a little bead all around the top of the flange and then shoved the weather strip down on the flange, wiped things up some (did all this with latex gloves on) and then shut the trunk to make sure the strip sits down where it needs to be.

Hopefully, overnight it will be settled and not move when I open the trunk but I have my doubts. For one thing, the instructions say to apply and allow ten minutes for the solvents to evaporate. So, I have to wonder if they'll evaporate sitting under the strip. I suppose eventually. I hope the solvents don't play havoc with the strip material.

I wonder how good a seal I'm going to get. I'm thinking seriously of getting a 2.8oz tube of clear GE Silicone II tomorrow to apply all around the outside perimeter of the weather strip for additional assurance that moisture won't wick up through it!

That's weatherstrip adhesive. It'll stick the rubber on there, but it's not great at sealing.

You wanted Adhesive Silicone. You can still use that around the outside of the rubber if you already have it installed, down where the gasket "ends".

And tell the guy at the parts store to stuff it, lol. I use brake cleaner on rubber seals nearly every day. Doesn't hurt a thing.

Sorry about the soap thing...talk to text and I didn't catch it. It typed "soak" the first time, but went with "soap" the second.

 

[Muse]

That's weatherstrip adhesive. It'll stick the rubber on there, but it's not great at sealing.

You wanted Adhesive Silicone. You can still use that around the outside of the rubber if you already have it installed, down where the gasket "ends".

And tell the guy at the parts store to stuff it, lol. I use brake cleaner on rubber seals nearly every day. Doesn't hurt a thing.

Sorry about the soap thing...talk to text and I didn't catch it. It typed "soak" the first time, but went with "soap" the second.

I've never used dictation software but there's a blind girl that posts to a listserve I use and her posts have those kinds of errors.

Well, I didn't see any "adhesive silicone" when I went shopping yesterday, so I got the Permatex because you'd mentioned that. I tried to get the Carquest, but O'Reilly didn't have it. They told me where a Carquest store was and I went there but they didn't have Carquest seal stuff, so I want back to O'Reilly and got the Permatex.

Well, the Goo Gone worked but I have to say it was slow going. It took me probably over two hours to clean the gunk off the weatherstripping. Even so it wasn't perfect but I figured it was clean enough. The crease, well, there was still stuff in it but it appeared dry and I figured if sealant got inside there it would make a good seal. However, the Permatex squeeze tube's nozzle was TOO WIDE to get the stuff in the crease. Instead, I laid a bead on the crease opening, another necessarily small bead on top of the flange and a big bead on the outside bottom of the flange and then shoved the strip down on the flange.

Now, I surmised what you said and figured that the Permatex may not make a good seal against water penetration, at least not in all places what with the way I used it. So today I bought a caulking tube of GE Silicone II Black and ran it all around the gutter, up against the weatherstripping. As long as it's intact it should prevent water from getting up into the crease.

I'm fairly confident that there won't be water getting through the weatherstripping system, at least in the near term. Now, with the abundant rain we should be getting over the next 10-14 days, I should have some idea of whether what I've done has solved the problem. If water is still getting in, particularly if substantial water is getting in, I will have to figure out how the heck it's getting in.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Well, at least you'll know it's not getting in under the seal.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner.

Had to put my dog to sleep on Monday and my daughter had surgery on her Achilles' tendon yesterday. Been a tough few days.

All is well now, though.