a lot of questionable moves by the govt to stimulate the economy IMO

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Maybe the OP posted it here to actually have a reasonable discussion instead of the usual...uh..."stuff" that goes on in the P&N forum?

As for the stimulus, yes, there has been very little of merit to come from it. Huge debts and no/little economy recovery, yet billions and trillions of dollars down the drain. Just a bunch of Democrat pet projects that they could ram through since they have total control right now.

America is drowning in trillions of dollars of debt, in danger of losing it's top credit status, losing it's status as the reserve currency, etc...and why? All because of the monster deficit spending enacted after January 20, 2009. China and Russia, for example, specifically cite the deficit as the major reason why they are leery to buy US bonds and why they support moving the reserve currency from the dollar.

They didn't say this while Bush was in office, nor did we have nearly the level of debt under Bush as we do now...

Not that Bush was a fiscal conservative by any means, but dang...our current president is sure making Bush look like a spendthrift.

we know you are very ignorant, but damn.

Russia isn't even a minor player in the us debt market. The economy is recovering (seriously, do you pay any attention to news?), and the anti-cyclatory effects of much of the stimulus have definitely helped. The united states is far from *swamped* in debt, sure we have too much, but not nearly to the point of being crippling, infact even under the worst case scenarios we won't approach such levels

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
doesn't it seem like what the govt is doing to fix the economy now is what led to its collapse in the first place?

encouraging banks to make loans (hope they are checking the qualifications of the applicants) - isn't that what lead to this mess? easy credit making it too easy to get a loan.

providing benefits such as a tax credit of $8k for first time home buyers - trying to prop up property values by flooding the market with buyers, when homes are still overpriced from the bubble (speaking locally for the NorthEast).

giving handouts to those who can't keep up with mortgage payments. great, lets encourage more irresponsible spending by bailing those who overextended themselves.

basically it seems like they are trying to spend their way out of this mess which is how we got into it originally.
what happened to letting the market correct itself?

When a Moron like Bush has been President for 8 years, and has had an irresponsible, pro-super rich Congress for most of those 8 years, and they have led our financial system to the VERY BRINK of RUIN than extraordinary steps are needed.
An *sshole like you thinks another Great Depression would be fun.
I invite you to move your *ss to Iceland and see how much fun it it is.

Thanks, Obama. For saving the vast majority of Americans from financial ruin.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Maybe the OP posted it here to actually have a reasonable discussion instead of the usual...uh..."stuff" that goes on in the P&N forum?

As for the stimulus, yes, there has been very little of merit to come from it. Huge debts and no/little economy recovery, yet billions and trillions of dollars down the drain. Just a bunch of Democrat pet projects that they could ram through since they have total control right now.

America is drowning in trillions of dollars of debt, in danger of losing it's top credit status, losing it's status as the reserve currency, etc...and why? All because of the monster deficit spending enacted after January 20, 2009. China and Russia, for example, specifically cite the deficit as the major reason why they are leery to buy US bonds and why they support moving the reserve currency from the dollar.

They didn't say this while Bush was in office, nor did we have nearly the level of debt under Bush as we do now...

Not that Bush was a fiscal conservative by any means, but dang...our current president is sure making Bush look like a spendthrift.

we know you are very ignorant, but damn.

Russia isn't even a minor player in the us debt market. The economy is recovering (seriously, do you pay any attention to news?), and the anti-cyclatory effects of much of the stimulus have definitely helped. The united states is far from *swamped* in debt, sure we have too much, but not nearly to the point of being crippling, infact even under the worst case scenarios we won't approach such levels

China sells US bonds to 'show concern'

http://www.breitbart.com/artic...7ec9.31&show_article=1

Russia, China to Promote Ruble, Yuan Use in Trade

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...01087&sid=aSTmuCr.RD88

Dollar drops on reserve currency doubts
http://www.breitbart.com/artic...c48.741&show_article=1

I could go on and on and on...

Your name is very appropriate, mike.

 

[Miramonti]

LOCK :roll:

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

The lefty trolls from P&N have sniffed this topic out...soon enough, Craig234, Phokus, etc. will be here...

Flee this thread...it is finished.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
The lefty trolls from P&N have sniffed this topic out...soon enough, Craig234, Phokus, etc. will be here...

Flee this thread...it is finished.

Fvck, you don't get it. :roll:

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
doesn't it seem like what the govt is doing to fix the economy now is what led to its collapse in the first place?

encouraging banks to make loans (hope they are checking the qualifications of the applicants) - isn't that what lead to this mess? easy credit making it too easy to get a loan.

providing benefits such as a tax credit of $8k for first time home buyers - trying to prop up property values by flooding the market with buyers, when homes are still overpriced from the bubble (speaking locally for the NorthEast).

giving handouts to those who can't keep up with mortgage payments. great, lets encourage more irresponsible spending by bailing those who overextended themselves.

basically it seems like they are trying to spend their way out of this mess which is how we got into it originally.
what happened to letting the market correct itself?

fixing a debt-related problem (massive de-leveraging) by going deeper into debt.

Denninger delivers some good rants about the economy. He has some business experience (started a company and sold it) and also understands all the financial terminology.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/

i wonder how much pressure the US government is putting on the rating agencies not to downgrade their AAA rating.

for more financial pron
http://alfred.stlouisfed.org/category?cid=123

Fed Board of Governors data on money supply creation, loaning to banks, etc.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

and these are the reasons i didn't want it to go to p&n.
it wasn't meant to be a dems vs gop. more of a financial thread than anything else.

 

[Pegun]

V~~~~~P&N

 

[SSSnail]

It's not about bailing out, it's about the FEDs acquiring more shits on the cheap. It's about putting competition out of business and rob them of their assets.

Case in point, WAMU was auctioned overnight by the FDIC to Chase for a measly $1.6 Bn when their assets are easily worth north of $4.4 Bn. If you look at the past, history is repeating itself. In the end, everything will end up with the few who started it all, 1929 redux.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
i think i'm actually going to write my congressmen and complain about the ridiculous amount of debt that's been run up. perhaps i will even use math to show just how ridiculous this is getting, seeing as the yearly interest on our debt is current about 10% of the budget.

You'd be doing yourself a disservice. The Deficit is actually too small.

ROFL.

It is true. It should be some $2.4 Trillion.

i thought the total US debt was something like 10 trillion?

11.4T according to http://www.treasurydirect.gov/...PDLogin?application=np

Sandorski fails.

Negative, the US Economy Fails without it. You need to read up on Economics, but from people who know what they're talking about.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
i think i'm actually going to write my congressmen and complain about the ridiculous amount of debt that's been run up. perhaps i will even use math to show just how ridiculous this is getting, seeing as the yearly interest on our debt is current about 10% of the budget.

You'd be doing yourself a disservice. The Deficit is actually too small.

ROFL.

It is true. It should be some $2.4 Trillion.

i thought the total US debt was something like 10 trillion?

11.4T according to http://www.treasurydirect.gov/...PDLogin?application=np

I said "Deficit". Your Debt numbers are correct(ish..don't know actual numbers at this point, but those are definitely the ballpark), but are not the Deficit.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Maybe the OP posted it here to actually have a reasonable discussion instead of the usual...uh..."stuff" that goes on in the P&N forum?

As for the stimulus, yes, there has been very little of merit to come from it. Huge debts and no/little economy recovery, yet billions and trillions of dollars down the drain. Just a bunch of Democrat pet projects that they could ram through since they have total control right now.

America is drowning in trillions of dollars of debt, in danger of losing it's top credit status, losing it's status as the reserve currency, etc...and why? All because of the monster deficit spending enacted after January 20, 2009. China and Russia, for example, specifically cite the deficit as the major reason why they are leery to buy US bonds and why they support moving the reserve currency from the dollar.

They didn't say this while Bush was in office, nor did we have nearly the level of debt under Bush as we do now...

Not that Bush was a fiscal conservative by any means, but dang...our current president is sure making Bush look like a spendthrift.

we know you are very ignorant, but damn.

Russia isn't even a minor player in the us debt market. The economy is recovering (seriously, do you pay any attention to news?), and the anti-cyclatory effects of much of the stimulus have definitely helped. The united states is far from *swamped* in debt, sure we have too much, but not nearly to the point of being crippling, infact even under the worst case scenarios we won't approach such levels

China sells US bonds to 'show concern'

http://www.breitbart.com/artic...7ec9.31&show_article=1

Russia, China to Promote Ruble, Yuan Use in Trade

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...01087&sid=aSTmuCr.RD88

Dollar drops on reserve currency doubts
http://www.breitbart.com/artic...c48.741&show_article=1

I could go on and on and on...

Your name is very appropriate, mike.

you get that china and particularly russia aren't very important, right? china owns what, 7% of us debt, russia owns around 1%? Most of the shit coming out of china and russia and their ilk is that based on politics, not economics.

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
The lefty trolls from P&N have sniffed this topic out...soon enough, Craig234, Phokus, etc. will be here...

Flee this thread...it is finished.

disagreeing with someone spreading fud and horseshit (you) is not trolling.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
It's not about bailing out, it's about the FEDs acquiring more shits on the cheap. It's about putting competition out of business and rob them of their assets.

Case in point, WAMU was auctioned overnight by the FDIC to Chase for a measly $1.6 Bn when their assets are easily worth north of $4.4 Bn. If you look at the past, history is repeating itself. In the end, everything will end up with the few who started it all, 1929 redux.

It's not a Conspiracy about someone buying up things on the Cheap. It is a Economic Disaster that has allowed things to be bought on the Cheap. Just like 1929(what you were correct about).

 

[ScottFern]

Politicians need to feel important and to simply do nothing and let the market correct itself would show them as not being necessary in "fixing" this quagmire. Not to mention they need something to talk about come election season.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: ScottFern
Politicians need to feel important and to simply do nothing and let the market correct itself would show them as not being necessary in "fixing" this quagmire. Not to mention they need something to talk about come election season.

the market woudl fix itself eventually. I just don't feel like wasting 10-15 years doing it.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: ScottFern
Politicians need to feel important and to simply do nothing and let the market correct itself would show them as not being necessary in "fixing" this quagmire. Not to mention they need something to talk about come election season.

the market woudl fix itself eventually. I just don't feel like wasting 10-15 years doing it.

10-15 years just might be what it takes, even with huge Government Deficits. Hopefully it won't need to work out that way, but the US/World Economy has slipped into a '90's Japan situation and Private Business may take years to recover.

 

[alkemyst]

The funniest part is 10 of the largest banks that wanted a bailout are refunding that money because they don't want to share their books.

So I guess they didn't *REALLY* need it.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
The funniest part is 10 of the largest banks that wanted a bailout are refunding that money because they don't want to share their books.

So I guess they didn't *REALLY* need it.

The Economy Needs it. The Banks are just being stupid and will end up sharing their Books anyway.