A look inside North Korea

[astrocase]

It's a crime to threaten the president of the USA or speak badly about the Thai royal family. Does that mean the North Korea isn't a terrible place?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

I wonder how many of you have actually visited and what you base your opinions on.


how can you judge another country and its culture just because of what some old fart on 60 minutes thinks.

that is so pathetic that I don't even know where to begin.

millions of North Koreans have died in the past few decades. Read what some international aid workers who went there say. This was a planned photo shoot you saw. He didn't go out and explore. Or wasn't allowed to.

North Korea is quite possibly among the worst places to live for the average person. It is a slave state if there ever was one.

So I guess people visiting america get the chance to see all of the homeless ghettos there. All the gang-bangers, and illegal immigrants, all the poverty here.

Just because there might not be as many americans living in terrible conditions as north koreans doesn't mean it can be ignored. Is it that much different? Americans are just living under the assumption that they are free and democracy reigns supreme but that is not the case. You aren't FREE as FREE is defined, you must pay royalties (taxes), you do not OWN land (government seizures of land does happen in america), hell if you wanted to go out and live in the forest and grow your own food and make your own shelter you couldn't. Everything is just nicely disguised here.

Don't be so ignorant as to base opinions on what other people say. Go visit and then tell us what you think or just STFU.

So many people have opinions and have absoloutely no idea what is going on.

You are carrying your BS from P&N to here now?

America does not have concentration camps yet. North Korea has had them for who knows how many years. That is a fact. There are actual eyewitnesses, both North Korean and foreign. There are documents. If you still don't believe that, then what killed the millions of North Koreans over these years? Mal-nutrition? But they have mal-nutrition in Africa, yet millions don't die there.

Those slaves working for the top ranking officials are doing so under brute force.

Many countries have people living in poverty. We are not discussing poverty. We are discussing state sponsored enslavement. The only person ignorant is you who is so short sighted to not see broadly. Your narrow thinking is limiting your viewpoint.

By the way, you don't have to visit a country to tell if its a tyranny or not. You didn't have to go to Russia in the 1940s to find out that it was run by a despotic regime.

We don't go out in the forest to make food because we don't have to. It is a plus. Yes, people need to have more skills, but those skills are not required here since we are a generally open society in which people can pick and choose what they wish to do. Unlike North Korea.

Yes, people have opinions, but yours is the only one here currently that has no good foundation.

I am seeing broadly.. I am basing my opinions on what I know and not what I am told.

So I supposed Iran is just as bad too right, because Wolf Blitzer told you so?

I haven't been to North Korea and don't know anybody that has, but I do know someone who has been to Iran and from what he told me it was absoloutely NOTHING like it is portrayed on television or any "documents".

I don't watch tv news. Iran is a tyranny but they are in a completely different situation. The world takes Iran seriously. Iran has many allies and is a major power in its region. Yes, it is a oppressive state but the situation is not as severe as North Korea. Iran is run by a bunch of tyrants, just like North Korea, but they have not made a mockery of the country on the world stage yet. Their economy is gradually improving but is due to several factors. Having economic ties with the EU, China, Russia, India and many other countries helps. Their population is much more educated than North Korea's.

I don't know what the general take on the documentries on Iran is. I suppose it is very negative? Like showing gays hanging off on poles simply because they are gay? Stuff like that?

That stuff happens in some countries. Sometimes, the media does portray only a side to the story. That is why you must look beyond that. You must look at all sides, factor in everything.

 

[uhohs]

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

I wonder how many of you have actually visited and what you base your opinions on.


how can you judge another country and its culture just because of what some old fart on 60 minutes thinks.

that is so pathetic that I don't even know where to begin.

millions of North Koreans have died in the past few decades. Read what some international aid workers who went there say. This was a planned photo shoot you saw. He didn't go out and explore. Or wasn't allowed to.

North Korea is quite possibly among the worst places to live for the average person. It is a slave state if there ever was one.

So I guess people visiting america get the chance to see all of the homeless ghettos there. All the gang-bangers, and illegal immigrants, all the poverty here.

Just because there might not be as many americans living in terrible conditions as north koreans doesn't mean it can be ignored. Is it that much different? Americans are just living under the assumption that they are free and democracy reigns supreme but that is not the case. You aren't FREE as FREE is defined, you must pay royalties (taxes), you do not OWN land (government seizures of land does happen in america), hell if you wanted to go out and live in the forest and grow your own food and make your own shelter you couldn't. Everything is just nicely disguised here.

Don't be so ignorant as to base opinions on what other people say. Go visit and then tell us what you think or just STFU.

So many people have opinions and have absoloutely no idea what is going on.

You are carrying your BS from P&N to here now?

America does not have concentration camps yet. North Korea has had them for who knows how many years. That is a fact. There are actual eyewitnesses, both North Korean and foreign. There are documents. If you still don't believe that, then what killed the millions of North Koreans over these years? Mal-nutrition? But they have mal-nutrition in Africa, yet millions don't die there.

Those slaves working for the top ranking officials are doing so under brute force.

Many countries have people living in poverty. We are not discussing poverty. We are discussing state sponsored enslavement. The only person ignorant is you who is so short sighted to not see broadly. Your narrow thinking is limiting your viewpoint.

By the way, you don't have to visit a country to tell if its a tyranny or not. You didn't have to go to Russia in the 1940s to find out that it was run by a despotic regime.

We don't go out in the forest to make food because we don't have to. It is a plus. Yes, people need to have more skills, but those skills are not required here since we are a generally open society in which people can pick and choose what they wish to do. Unlike North Korea.

Yes, people have opinions, but yours is the only one here currently that has no good foundation.

I am seeing broadly.. I am basing my opinions on what I know and not what I am told.

So I supposed Iran is just as bad too right, because Wolf Blitzer told you so?

I haven't been to North Korea and don't know anybody that has, but I do know someone who has been to Iran and from what he told me it was absoloutely NOTHING like it is portrayed on television or any "documents".

endthread

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

I wonder how many of you have actually visited and what you base your opinions on.


how can you judge another country and its culture just because of what some old fart on 60 minutes thinks.

that is so pathetic that I don't even know where to begin.

millions of North Koreans have died in the past few decades. Read what some international aid workers who went there say. This was a planned photo shoot you saw. He didn't go out and explore. Or wasn't allowed to.

North Korea is quite possibly among the worst places to live for the average person. It is a slave state if there ever was one.

So I guess people visiting america get the chance to see all of the homeless ghettos there. All the gang-bangers, and illegal immigrants, all the poverty here.

Just because there might not be as many americans living in terrible conditions as north koreans doesn't mean it can be ignored. Is it that much different? Americans are just living under the assumption that they are free and democracy reigns supreme but that is not the case. You aren't FREE as FREE is defined, you must pay royalties (taxes), you do not OWN land (government seizures of land does happen in america), hell if you wanted to go out and live in the forest and grow your own food and make your own shelter you couldn't. Everything is just nicely disguised here.

Don't be so ignorant as to base opinions on what other people say. Go visit and then tell us what you think or just STFU.

So many people have opinions and have absoloutely no idea what is going on.

You are carrying your BS from P&N to here now?

America does not have concentration camps yet. North Korea has had them for who knows how many years. That is a fact. There are actual eyewitnesses, both North Korean and foreign. There are documents. If you still don't believe that, then what killed the millions of North Koreans over these years? Mal-nutrition? But they have mal-nutrition in Africa, yet millions don't die there.

Those slaves working for the top ranking officials are doing so under brute force.

Many countries have people living in poverty. We are not discussing poverty. We are discussing state sponsored enslavement. The only person ignorant is you who is so short sighted to not see broadly. Your narrow thinking is limiting your viewpoint.

By the way, you don't have to visit a country to tell if its a tyranny or not. You didn't have to go to Russia in the 1940s to find out that it was run by a despotic regime.

We don't go out in the forest to make food because we don't have to. It is a plus. Yes, people need to have more skills, but those skills are not required here since we are a generally open society in which people can pick and choose what they wish to do. Unlike North Korea.

Yes, people have opinions, but yours is the only one here currently that has no good foundation.

I am seeing broadly.. I am basing my opinions on what I know and not what I am told.

So I supposed Iran is just as bad too right, because Wolf Blitzer told you so?

I haven't been to North Korea and don't know anybody that has, but I do know someone who has been to Iran and from what he told me it was absoloutely NOTHING like it is portrayed on television or any "documents".

Guess what? I DO

 

[envy me]

No.. but it makes 0roo0roo's post invalid. There are many restrictions put in place in the US as well. Some maybe not as extreme. I just don't understand how people can come off as experts in the field when they haven't even stepped foot in the same continent. I am not denying the allegations but come on, in a country with principles based on Innocent until proven guilty, at least don't come off as you everything about the country.

I'm sure it has its bad parts, bad laws... every country does. But formulate your own opinions based on knowledge/experience. Like I said, I haven't been there so I cannot say how bad it is because I watched a documentary. Everyone watches documentaries.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: astrocase
Did you see this??

http://www.rotten.com/library/history/c...korea/north_korea_nighttime_shrunk.jpg

Yeah, that's just striking.

It's amazing to me that people can look at that map and tell me that North Korea is fine. Christ, look at South Korea and look at North Korea, they've both had the same amount of time to recover from the war. North Korea is a hell hole.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: envy me

No.. but it makes 0roo0roo's post invalid. There are many restrictions put in place in the US as well. Some maybe not as extreme. I just don't understand how people can come off as experts in the field when they haven't even stepped foot in the same continent. I am not denying the allegations but come on, in a country with principles based on Innocent until proven guilty, at least don't come off as you everything about the country.

I'm sure it has its bad parts, bad laws... every country does. But formulate your own opinions based on knowledge/experience. Like I said, I haven't been there so I cannot say how bad it is because I watched a documentary. Everyone watches documentaries.

So you judge a country like you would judge a person? What if a country is ruled by a few evil men? Innocent until proven guilty? So Kim Jung is innocent until he is proven guilty? The North Korean tyrants who have killed millions are innovent until they are proven guilty? And which court will decide their fate? The UN? The EU? The Hague? The 9th district?

Don't compare North Korea with every country. Every country does not have the vast abuses that it has. Name me other countries with mass enslavement. Where everything is controlled by the central government. Even the black markets are fearful. I doubt people who are saying this about North Korea are saying so simply based off on one documentary.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: envy me

No.. but it makes 0roo0roo's post invalid. There are many restrictions put in place in the US as well. Some maybe not as extreme. I just don't understand how people can come off as experts in the field when they haven't even stepped foot in the same continent. I am not denying the allegations but come on, in a country with principles based on Innocent until proven guilty, at least don't come off as you everything about the country.

I'm sure it has its bad parts, bad laws... every country does. But formulate your own opinions based on knowledge/experience. Like I said, I haven't been there so I cannot say how bad it is because I watched a documentary. Everyone watches documentaries.

ah, so you've stepped down from your high horse of pretentiousness to a sh!thole of pretentiousness. :roll:

so basically what you're saying is that any sort of law is bad because it curbs your freedom to do what you want to do. There IS PROOF that North Korea is a sh!thole, so please, stop talking out of your ass

 

[aswedc]

Iran is paradise compared to North Korea. Any NK refugee can confim mass starvation. There goes your argument that there is no evidence.

 

[envy me]

because they don't have lights on? Because they might have less energy reserves than the south. Ok so by your analogy you live in a hell hole because you don't drive a hummer and live in a 10 bedroom mansion right?

And what about North of north korea? I don't see any lights on in china? are they a hell hole too?

 

[envy me]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

No.. but it makes 0roo0roo's post invalid. There are many restrictions put in place in the US as well. Some maybe not as extreme. I just don't understand how people can come off as experts in the field when they haven't even stepped foot in the same continent. I am not denying the allegations but come on, in a country with principles based on Innocent until proven guilty, at least don't come off as you everything about the country.

I'm sure it has its bad parts, bad laws... every country does. But formulate your own opinions based on knowledge/experience. Like I said, I haven't been there so I cannot say how bad it is because I watched a documentary. Everyone watches documentaries.

So you judge a country like you would judge a person? What if a country is ruled by a few evil men? Innocent until proven guilty? So Kim Jung is innocent until he is proven guilty? The North Korean tyrants who have killed millions are innovent until they are proven guilty? And which court will decide their fate? The UN? The EU? The Hague? The 9th district?

Don't compare North Korea with every country. Every country does not have the vast abuses that it has. Name me other countries with mass enslavement. Where everything is controlled by the central government. Even the black markets are fearful. I doubt people who are saying this about North Korea are saying so simply based off on one documentary.

Name me a country, the ONLY country to ever use a nuclear bomb (TWICE) to kill massive amounts of civilians?

Name me a country which detains, interrogates, and tortures people without trials?

Name me a country which invades 2 countries, based on false information causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in the process?

Name me a country whos leader has never been punished for any of the above crimes?

 

[raildogg]

People are selling their skin for money in North Korea. Some foreign doctors actually went there to donate some of their skin so people can use it.

This link is NSFW due to graphic images:

link

 

[aswedc]

Originally posted by: envy me

because they don't have lights on? Because they might have less energy reserves than the south. Ok so by your analogy you live in a hell hole because you don't drive a hummer and live in a 10 bedroom mansion right?

And what about North of north korea? I don't see any lights on in china? are they a hell hole too?

:roll:

Do you even know anything about North Korea? No one owns a car but government and military officials. There aren't ANY traffic lights in the capital city. See for yourself in those pictures.

 

[astrocase]

Envy let me just say that taking the position that you have you're giving the benefit of the doubt to NK. That's always nice to do.

However, after seeing the Nazi death camps and the aftermath of the war in Yugoslavia I just don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt. If the world claims (not just the US) that North Korea has concentration camps and is persecuting it's citizens then it should be taken seriously. I'd say the burden is on them to convince the international community that they are not violating the most basic of human rights. They are afterall a closed society so the burden must be on them.

It's not practical to give them the benefit of the doubt. Not in my opinion at least. Should we give the Sudanese government the benefit of the doubt despite the claims by others (since neither of us have been there) that hundreds of thousands have been killed and millions displaced, raped, maimed, and tortured?

 

[buzzsaw13]

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

No.. but it makes 0roo0roo's post invalid. There are many restrictions put in place in the US as well. Some maybe not as extreme. I just don't understand how people can come off as experts in the field when they haven't even stepped foot in the same continent. I am not denying the allegations but come on, in a country with principles based on Innocent until proven guilty, at least don't come off as you everything about the country.

I'm sure it has its bad parts, bad laws... every country does. But formulate your own opinions based on knowledge/experience. Like I said, I haven't been there so I cannot say how bad it is because I watched a documentary. Everyone watches documentaries.

So you judge a country like you would judge a person? What if a country is ruled by a few evil men? Innocent until proven guilty? So Kim Jung is innocent until he is proven guilty? The North Korean tyrants who have killed millions are innovent until they are proven guilty? And which court will decide their fate? The UN? The EU? The Hague? The 9th district?

Don't compare North Korea with every country. Every country does not have the vast abuses that it has. Name me other countries with mass enslavement. Where everything is controlled by the central government. Even the black markets are fearful. I doubt people who are saying this about North Korea are saying so simply based off on one documentary.

Name me a country, the ONLY country to ever use a nuclear bomb (TWICE) to kill massive amounts of civilians?

Name me a country which detains, interrogates, and tortures people without trials?

Name me a country which invades 2 countries, based on false information causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in the process?

Name me a country whos leader has never been punished for any of the above crimes?

Way to derail the thread and turn it into something you'd find in P&N

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

I wonder how many of you have actually visited and what you base your opinions on.


how can you judge another country and its culture just because of what some old fart on 60 minutes thinks.

that is so pathetic that I don't even know where to begin.

millions of North Koreans have died in the past few decades. Read what some international aid workers who went there say. This was a planned photo shoot you saw. He didn't go out and explore. Or wasn't allowed to.

North Korea is quite possibly among the worst places to live for the average person. It is a slave state if there ever was one.

So I guess people visiting america get the chance to see all of the homeless ghettos there. All the gang-bangers, and illegal immigrants, all the poverty here.

Just because there might not be as many americans living in terrible conditions as north koreans doesn't mean it can be ignored. Is it that much different? Americans are just living under the assumption that they are free and democracy reigns supreme but that is not the case. You aren't FREE as FREE is defined, you must pay royalties (taxes), you do not OWN land (government seizures of land does happen in america), hell if you wanted to go out and live in the forest and grow your own food and make your own shelter you couldn't. Everything is just nicely disguised here.

Don't be so ignorant as to base opinions on what other people say. Go visit and then tell us what you think or just STFU.

So many people have opinions and have absoloutely no idea what is going on.

You are carrying your BS from P&N to here now?

America does not have concentration camps yet. North Korea has had them for who knows how many years. That is a fact. There are actual eyewitnesses, both North Korean and foreign. There are documents. If you still don't believe that, then what killed the millions of North Koreans over these years? Mal-nutrition? But they have mal-nutrition in Africa, yet millions don't die there.

Those slaves working for the top ranking officials are doing so under brute force.

Many countries have people living in poverty. We are not discussing poverty. We are discussing state sponsored enslavement. The only person ignorant is you who is so short sighted to not see broadly. Your narrow thinking is limiting your viewpoint.

By the way, you don't have to visit a country to tell if its a tyranny or not. You didn't have to go to Russia in the 1940s to find out that it was run by a despotic regime. Going there helps, but most people don't really want to go to these places.

We don't go out in the forest to make food because we don't have to. It is a plus. Yes, people need to have more skills, but those skills are not required here since we are a generally open society in which people can pick and choose what they wish to do. Unlike North Korea.

Yes, people have opinions, but yours is the only one here currently that has no good foundation.

"But they have mal-nutrition in Africa, yet millions don't die there."

Ahahahahaha, that has got to be the stupidest thing i've ever heard on ATOT!
I've read through that several times and i still cannot understand if you ment it truly. Because that statement is so ignorant that you must've been thinking about something else, or i am miunderstanding it.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

No.. but it makes 0roo0roo's post invalid. There are many restrictions put in place in the US as well. Some maybe not as extreme. I just don't understand how people can come off as experts in the field when they haven't even stepped foot in the same continent. I am not denying the allegations but come on, in a country with principles based on Innocent until proven guilty, at least don't come off as you everything about the country.

I'm sure it has its bad parts, bad laws... every country does. But formulate your own opinions based on knowledge/experience. Like I said, I haven't been there so I cannot say how bad it is because I watched a documentary. Everyone watches documentaries.

So you judge a country like you would judge a person? What if a country is ruled by a few evil men? Innocent until proven guilty? So Kim Jung is innocent until he is proven guilty? The North Korean tyrants who have killed millions are innovent until they are proven guilty? And which court will decide their fate? The UN? The EU? The Hague? The 9th district?

Don't compare North Korea with every country. Every country does not have the vast abuses that it has. Name me other countries with mass enslavement. Where everything is controlled by the central government. Even the black markets are fearful. I doubt people who are saying this about North Korea are saying so simply based off on one documentary.

Name me a country, the ONLY country to ever use a nuclear bomb (TWICE) to kill massive amounts of civilians?

Name me a country which detains, interrogates, and tortures people without trials?

Name me a country which invades 2 countries, based on false information causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in the process?

Name me a country whos leader has never been punished for any of the above crimes?

That is one bad argument. I want to be nice, but really, you can do much better than that. Why just pick and choose random stuff? Why not go back to our founding? When we committed genocide on the various Native American tribes?

Why just go back to WW2?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: envy me

because they don't have lights on? Because they might have less energy reserves than the south. Ok so by your analogy you live in a hell hole because you don't drive a hummer and live in a 10 bedroom mansion right?

And what about North of north korea? I don't see any lights on in china? are they a hell hole too?

Are you really so stupid? Look at any single industrialized nation in the world and you'll see a grid of lights just like in South Korea. Big lights at major cities, connected by the lighting of the major highways. North Korea doesn't have that. They don't have anything real.

They have no infrastructure, they have no economy. Their biggest export is opium, which they're forced to grow by the government on all the best farmland while the people starve. When the changeover took place, farmers who were caught growing food were killed. The foreign aid food is distributed to the military.

I've seen a few of the dark and ugly parts of North Korea. There are concentration camps made just for children. There are concentration camps for political prisoners, of which North Korea has more than anyone else in the world. But nearly as telling is the facade of the major cities, they're a total fraud, and any visitor can tell you that.

I realize that you're arguing just for the sake of arguing (behavior which should be confined to P&N) but you're arguing against overwhelming PROOF. It's not a matter of opinion.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: envy me

No.. but it makes 0roo0roo's post invalid. There are many restrictions put in place in the US as well. Some maybe not as extreme. I just don't understand how people can come off as experts in the field when they haven't even stepped foot in the same continent. I am not denying the allegations but come on, in a country with principles based on Innocent until proven guilty, at least don't come off as you everything about the country.

I'm sure it has its bad parts, bad laws... every country does. But formulate your own opinions based on knowledge/experience. Like I said, I haven't been there so I cannot say how bad it is because I watched a documentary. Everyone watches documentaries.

ah, so you've stepped down from your high horse of pretentiousness to a sh!thole of pretentiousness. :roll:

so basically what you're saying is that any sort of law is bad because it curbs your freedom to do what you want to do. There IS PROOF that North Korea is a sh!thole, so please, stop talking out of your ass

basically what he's saying is that if your free speech in the us is limited by not being able do things like scream fire in a crowded theater, thats exactly like having death camps in nazi germany. there are no distinctions.

 

[envy me]

Originally posted by: astrocase
Envy let me just say that taking the position that you have you're giving the benefit of the doubt to NK. That's always nice to do.

However, after seeing the Nazi death camps and the aftermath of the war in Yugoslavia I just don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt. If the world claims (not just the US) that North Korea has concentration camps and is persecuting it's citizens then it should be taken seriously. I'd say the burden is on them to convince the international community that they are not violating the most basic of human rights. They are afterall a closed society so the burden must be on them.

It's not practical to give them the benefit of the doubt. Not in my opinion at least. Should we give the Sudanese government the benefit of the doubt despite the claims by others (since neither of us have been there) that hundreds of thousands have been killed and millions displaced, raped, maimed, and tortured?

So the world claimed that Saddam was a threat and possesed WMD's, look where it got us. The US has allies and a lot of money and can convince people with embargos and sanctions as they please. Even now, they are attempting to convince you of how bad Iran is.

If the US was soo concerned about this type of living environment, then why aren't they in Africa, which appears to have FAR worse living conditions than North Korea?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: envy me

I wonder how many of you have actually visited and what you base your opinions on.


how can you judge another country and its culture just because of what some old fart on 60 minutes thinks.

that is so pathetic that I don't even know where to begin.

millions of North Koreans have died in the past few decades. Read what some international aid workers who went there say. This was a planned photo shoot you saw. He didn't go out and explore. Or wasn't allowed to.

North Korea is quite possibly among the worst places to live for the average person. It is a slave state if there ever was one.

So I guess people visiting america get the chance to see all of the homeless ghettos there. All the gang-bangers, and illegal immigrants, all the poverty here.

Just because there might not be as many americans living in terrible conditions as north koreans doesn't mean it can be ignored. Is it that much different? Americans are just living under the assumption that they are free and democracy reigns supreme but that is not the case. You aren't FREE as FREE is defined, you must pay royalties (taxes), you do not OWN land (government seizures of land does happen in america), hell if you wanted to go out and live in the forest and grow your own food and make your own shelter you couldn't. Everything is just nicely disguised here.

Don't be so ignorant as to base opinions on what other people say. Go visit and then tell us what you think or just STFU.

So many people have opinions and have absoloutely no idea what is going on.

You are carrying your BS from P&N to here now?

America does not have concentration camps yet. North Korea has had them for who knows how many years. That is a fact. There are actual eyewitnesses, both North Korean and foreign. There are documents. If you still don't believe that, then what killed the millions of North Koreans over these years? Mal-nutrition? But they have mal-nutrition in Africa, yet millions don't die there.

Those slaves working for the top ranking officials are doing so under brute force.

Many countries have people living in poverty. We are not discussing poverty. We are discussing state sponsored enslavement. The only person ignorant is you who is so short sighted to not see broadly. Your narrow thinking is limiting your viewpoint.

By the way, you don't have to visit a country to tell if its a tyranny or not. You didn't have to go to Russia in the 1940s to find out that it was run by a despotic regime. Going there helps, but most people don't really want to go to these places.

We don't go out in the forest to make food because we don't have to. It is a plus. Yes, people need to have more skills, but those skills are not required here since we are a generally open society in which people can pick and choose what they wish to do. Unlike North Korea.

Yes, people have opinions, but yours is the only one here currently that has no good foundation.

"But they have mal-nutrition in Africa, yet millions don't die there."

Ahahahahaha, that has got to be the stupidest thing i've ever heard on ATOT!
I've read through that several times and i still cannot understand if you ment it truly. Because that statement is so ignorant that you must've been thinking about something else, or i am miunderstanding it.

Yes, not the best choice of words, but I'm not debating someone who is serious about a debate. Or is actually presenting something worthwhile. What I meant was that mal-nutrition does not kill millions of people in a short period of time. Concentration camps, slave labor does.

 

[raildogg]

A thread about North Korea is turning into how US is evil and how the Iraq war was bad.

I think that is it for me. Good night.

 

[astrocase]

Originally posted by: envy me

because they don't have lights on? Because they might have less energy reserves than the south. Ok so by your analogy you live in a hell hole because you don't drive a hummer and live in a 10 bedroom mansion right?

And what about North of north korea? I don't see any lights on in china? are they a hell hole too?

http://www.cotf.edu/ete/images/modules/korea/klightscoast.jpg

There are a few Chinese cities north of the border. Notice the lights? 24 million people in NK and no lights.

 

[aswedc]

. The US has allies and a lot of money and can convince people with embargos and sanctions as they please. Even now, they are attempting to convince you of how bad Iran is.

If the US was soo concerned about this type of living environment, then why aren't they in Africa, which appears to have FAR worse living conditions than North Korea?

WTF are you talking about. We're trying to discuss the conditions in North Korea. Not what the government should or shouldn't do about it.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: astrocase
Envy let me just say that taking the position that you have you're giving the benefit of the doubt to NK. That's always nice to do.

However, after seeing the Nazi death camps and the aftermath of the war in Yugoslavia I just don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt. If the world claims (not just the US) that North Korea has concentration camps and is persecuting it's citizens then it should be taken seriously. I'd say the burden is on them to convince the international community that they are not violating the most basic of human rights. They are afterall a closed society so the burden must be on them.

It's not practical to give them the benefit of the doubt. Not in my opinion at least. Should we give the Sudanese government the benefit of the doubt despite the claims by others (since neither of us have been there) that hundreds of thousands have been killed and millions displaced, raped, maimed, and tortured?

So the world claimed that Saddam was a threat and possesed WMD's, look where it got us. The US has allies and a lot of money and can convince people with embargos and sanctions as they please. Even now, they are attempting to convince you of how bad Iran is.

If the US was soo concerned about this type of living environment, then why aren't they in Africa, which appears to have FAR worse living conditions than North Korea?

because it's well established that the US is after the oil. Stop bringing in other random P+N crap to try and scrap together any sort of defense