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A look at how US crime guns are flooding Toronto.

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Majority of gun crimes in Torona are gang bangs... Unfortunately, the gang bangers are nice enough nowadays to get it "down" in very busy areas once in a while. Most other times, they stick to the hoods.

Domestic incidents are pretty rare, they happen more in small towns between residents and RCMP.
 
All I am looking for is a little personal responsibility. Make gun transaction at least at the level of car transactions. You buy a car you have to register the car to your name. Same for guns. I don't think that is asking all that much is it?

You don't seem to realize how politically incorrect your request is.. For example, lets look at some homicide statistics from my home town, Chicago.

CHI_Murders_by_race.bmp


or
1343254770-homicide_poverty.png


In today's Crain's Chicago Business, Arthur J. Lurigio, professor of criminal justice and psychology at Loyola University, points out that in 2010, 52 percent of murders in Chicago occurred in just six of the city's 25 police districts—areas "plagued by intergenerational poverty, gang infestation, single-parent households, social disorder, and economic blight."
-- From the Chicago Reader

Note that the good professor didn't cite the availability of weapons as a factor.

As I said previously, availability of guns does not correlate with crime. After all, Chicago already has some of the toughest gun laws in the US. But, as you can see, even in Chicago gun crime is not random but correlates with "areas "plagued by intergenerational poverty, gang infestation, single-parent households, social disorder, and economic blight." None of which will be impacted by new gun control legislation.

In the US, gun control is a political panacea. It is a sad "made for TV" spectacle designed to pander to certain special interest groups. No more and no less.

If it is any consolation to you, I agree that the solution involves individuals taking responsibility for their actions. Though, as you can see above, gun control laws haven't made Chicago any safer. Nor, would I expect them to make the nation any safer.

Uno
 
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204 were identified... Obviously there is more than 204 smuggled. Or are you saying our governments know exactly how many smuggled guns there are?

You guys are so fucked up. You don't have a problem registering a car to your name upon purchase, but scream murder when the government ask you to do the same for guns.

OK, let's quadruple the number.

Now we're up to 0.000272%. Yeah, we're so fucked up, all those illegal guns going north. 🙄

Gun licensing and registration will lead to gun bans and confiscation. Everyone uses a car, and no one is afraid of cars in and of themselves. Only half the country owns a gun, and guns innately scare people who have never been exposed to them.

Case in point: No one talks about banning varieties of cars when a drunk driver kills kids, but when a crazed shooter kills kids banning varieties of guns is all you hear about. You think that would change if guns were licensed?
 
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OK, let's quadruple the number.

Now we're up to 0.000272%. Yeah, we're so fucked up, all those illegal guns going north. 🙄

Gun licensing and registration will lead to gun bans and confiscation. Everyone uses a car, and no one is afraid of cars in and of themselves. Only half the country owns a gun, and guns innately scare people who have never been exposed to them.

Case in point: No one talks about banning varieties of cars when a drunk driver kills kids, but when a crazed shooter kills kids banning varieties of guns is all you hear about. You think that would change if guns were licensed?

Why would registration lead to ban? Your 2nd amendment argument will never end. There is no way you guys can get gun ownership banned. And that is what I don't get, the fearmongering when gun registration is mentioned.

I am asking the gun owners to be responsible owners. Drunk drivers shoukd be banned from driving, period. But that is an entirely different matter.
 
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Why would registration lead to ban? Your 2nd amendment argument will never end. There is no way you guys can get gun ownership banned. And that is what I don't get, the fearmongering when gun registration is mentioned.

I am asking the gun owners to be responsible owners. Drunk drivers shoukd be banned from driving, period. But that is an entirely different matter.

You're not thinking like the bureaucrats who run this country. They can ban certain varieties of firearms, or they can ban the magazines. Or set stupid limits. The New York SAFE act is the most recent example of this. In a radio interview released before it passed, Governor Cuomo actually said "confiscation could be an option", with respect to his re-definition of "assault weapon" (which included a lot of regular pistols actually). He's also wants to allow 10 round magazines, but only allow 7 rounds to be loaded at any given time. Thankfully this law is now facing massive popular protest, but he's far from the only one who thinks like this.

New Jersey is another example, where there's a mandatory minimum 6-month prison sentence for ANY firearm related crime, whether it be murder or transporting an unloaded firearm without a case. In one case a man got 7 years for "unlawful possession" due to a bias judge, and was only saved by a gubernatorial pardon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Aitken

The 2nd amendment is like having a tenured position. You may not be able to be directly fired, but your life can be made miserable to the point where you wish you were.


If registration is allowed to go ahead, all it will lead to is de-facto bans in many areas. There is a sizable anti-gun movement in the US, and there are numerous examples of elected officials literally not knowing how guns mechanically work. One Colorado assembly-woman recently revealed in a public meeting that she thought magazines were one-time-use and disposable. She thought that if we banned high capacity magazines, eventually they'd all be shot and the supply would disappear!

Bottom line, the government by-and-large cannot be trusted to objectively safeguard gun rights or the 2nd amendment, or most other rights for that matter; and even if licensing were required, you think the criminals are going to get licensed?


I agree that gun owners should be held to a higher level of responsibility, and honestly I wouldn't mind something like a one-time-license good for all guns, where you take, say a 1-week course in general firearms safety/law, with range time, and then you can own whatever you want for life and carry them anywhere. That way the license doesn't stipulate what firearms you own, and it holds people to a higher level of commitment.

I'd also end the drug war and eliminate parole for violent felons, but then again I'm an engineer, not a politician. 😛
 
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No! The champions of the downtrodden inner city won't live in the downtrodden inner city. Most live in Virginia and commute.

Thats what I heard. But I dont see them.
I live in Manassas which is more of a haven for illegals and poorer Virginians. The rich folks either come from their palatial farm estates out west and pass through on the train, or from their 4 story townhouses to the east and we never see them.
 
I find it sad that you have already accepted gun deaths as a matter of fact. We do not want to be like that.

This.

The fact that it happens is bad enough on it's own, the numbers are just technical details. Does not really matter how much it happens based on how much population or w/e stats you want to use, the fact that it happens is the real problem. We are just as responsible though, it's up to our border patrol to check better for these things, but guess if someone hides a gun in some weird spot in the car it's kind of hard to track. Not like you can really use a metal detector when the car itself is metal. But at same time, US people/stores should not be able to sell a gun casually like it was a chocolate bar on the way out of the gas station.

If anything gun ownership/use should at least be as strict as vehicles. You should need to register it in your name, and you should need a license to operate it, and be a certain age, take a course etc...
 
This.

The fact that it happens is bad enough on it's own, the numbers are just technical details. Does not really matter how much it happens based on how much population or w/e stats you want to use, the fact that it happens is the real problem. We are just as responsible though, it's up to our border patrol to check better for these things, but guess if someone hides a gun in some weird spot in the car it's kind of hard to track. Not like you can really use a metal detector when the car itself is metal. But at same time, US people/stores should not be able to sell a gun casually like it was a chocolate bar on the way out of the gas station.

If anything gun ownership/use should at least be as strict as vehicles. You should need to register it in your name, and you should need a license to operate it, and be a certain age, take a course etc...

First of all, they can't. To buy a gun in a store you have to undergo a background check and fill out paperwork, and the store retains its sales records.

Now from one private citizen to another, in most states there is no background requirement, but even if there were, do you think criminals would bother to go through with it? They'll just find a contact who doesn't give a shit, much like they already do.

As for licensing, show me a licensing model that protects gun rights, that won't lead to eventual confiscation or retarded limitations, and I'll be all for it.
 
All I am looking for is a little personal responsibility. Make gun transaction at least at the level of car transactions. You buy a car you have to register the car to your name. Same for guns. I don't think that is asking all that much is it?

When your legislators are on video as having stated the ultimate goal is to create a registry and then confiscate all guns, yeah that's a little too much.
 
We as in Canadians. We are not supposed to lose kids that were in their house and get killed by stray bullet from outside the house. We are not supposed to have an execution style shooting in a fairly upscale mall parking lot in broad daylight.

I undertand it it nothing to you because you just see a number, but we take this seriously.

So I'm not a Canadian then? Why did Canada get rid of the gun registry that you want the USA to emulate?

I understand that the rights of law abiding citizens are nothing to you, but I assure you that we take them seriously.
 
So I'm not a Canadian then? Why did Canada get rid of the gun registry that you want the USA to emulate?

I understand that the rights of law abiding citizens are nothing to you, but I assure you that we take them seriously.

Because Harper is a fucktard. And the Long Gun Registry portfolio was totally butchered. I don't understand how they can fuck up such a simple thing to do.

Did I say take away American citizen's right to own guns? No. I just want responsible gun ownership. Or are you saying the complete disregard for gun safety exhibited by the architect in the article is perfecty fine? Or that Bob should be allowed to sell guns to random stranger with no paper trail?

Oh you are Canadian? I did not know that. D:
 
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When your legislators are on video as having stated the ultimate goal is to create a registry and then confiscate all guns, yeah that's a little too much.

Well, unmake them as legislators. The political system is so fucked up in the US it is not funny. Not that ours is great or anything.
 
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Well, unmake them as legislators. The political system is so fucked up in the US it is not funny. Not that ours is great or anything.
Thats the big problem which is never going to be fixed.

Both sides have done an excellent job at convincing America that the other one is going to destroy them, and you need to elect us so we can minimize the damage the other guy is going to do to you.

And they get in office and fuck America.
It will never get fixed.
 
Can a Canadian answer this question?
Generally speaking, what is the "demographic" of the perpetrator in gun crimes?

Male, 20-40 years of age, and a criminal. If you're looking for an answer about race, I would say there isn't one, it's pretty diverse. Toronto has a fairly large African immigrant community and they do have some disproportionate amounts of gun crime in the areas that they tend to live in, but it's hardly an epidemic. If you follow the shootings and shooting deaths the overwhelming commonality is that perpetrator and victim were both lowlife criminals.

Discharging a firearm in the course of another crime is relatively rare. (By this I mean crimes that are not targeted at other criminals.) Even in a "bad" neighbourhood you're extremely unlikely to be the target of a gun crime.
 
Thats the big problem which is never going to be fixed.

Both sides have done an excellent job at convincing America that the other one is going to destroy them, and you need to elect us so we can minimize the damage the other guy is going to do to you.

And they get in office and fuck America.
It will never get fixed.

I never understood the two party system. Seems such a fix to me.
 
Because Harper is a fucktard. And the Long Gun Registry portfolio was totally butchered. I don't understand how they can fuck up such a simple thing to do.

Did I say take away American citizen's right to own guns? No. I just want responsible gun ownership. Or are you saying the complete disregard for gun safety exhibited by the architect in the article is perfecty fine? Or that Bob should be allowed to sell guns to random stranger with no paper trail?

Oh you are Canadian? I did not know that. D:

Because Harper... lol.

Or maybe because we spent somewhere between 1 and 2 billion dollars to create a deeply flawed registry that did virtually nothing to prevent crime?

It was fucked up because it's NOT a simple thing to do. We have MILLIONS of guns in Canada, probably a bit less than half the per capita amount that are in the USA. There was massive non-compliance in Canada (especially among criminals, what a surprise that they didn't rush to get licensed and registered!) so we can only imagine what the compliance would be like in the USA. The registry was also used to confiscate property without compensation (which of course they promised us that they would never do.)

I don't disagree with licensing to a very basic standard such as CCW licensing but registration is just an astounding waste of money that does almost nothing... other than give the govt a nice list of what to confiscate when they decide they want to.
 
Because Harper is a fucktard. And the Long Gun Registry portfolio was totally butchered. I don't understand how they can fuck up such a simple thing to do.

Did I say take away American citizen's right to own guns? No. I just want responsible gun ownership. Or are you saying the complete disregard for gun safety exhibited by the architect in the article is perfecty fine? Or that Bob should be allowed to sell guns to random stranger with no paper trail?

Oh you are Canadian? I did not know that. D:

A registry doesn't get crime guns on the list - criminals ignore it, as does the majority of the populace who either don't know or don't care. Furthermore, as shown in Australia, England, and Canada, a registry is a nice "confiscate-me-later" list which has been used to deprive good citizens of property without due process and without compensation.

Responsible gun ownership is exercised by 99.999% of gun owners in America every day. The other 0.001% unfortunately feed the media sensationalism.

For perspective, remember that all the nice things affirmed in the American Bill of Rights are also in the Chinese constitution - except the right to bear arms. So all the other "guarantees" are worth less than the paper they are printed on, because the citizenry have no means to challenge or counterbalance their government. The intent of the 2nd amendment is to provide that final counterbalance against an overreaching government. If you don't think America is well down that path already, I've got Patriot Act I & II, NDAA, and a dozen other shameful pieces of legislation to show you.
 
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