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A liberal's million-dollar condo

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
In the ongoing argument over whether it is "trolling" to ask if the behavior of Christian conservatives is consistent with the behavior of Jesus, a point I have repeatedly made is that asking such questions is valid, and that the same applies to liberals and any other groups. Well, it hasn't taken long for an actual controversy to erupt that allows us to explore one portion of the other side of the coin.

The specific issue is the $1.2 million DC house purchased by liberal blogger Matt Yglesias. It took no time at all for right-wingers to decry this as an example of "limousine liberal" hypocrisy, and then, of course, for liberals to respond saying those criticisms are invalid.

I bring this up both so we can discuss the topic itself, and to demonstrate that such topics are entirely valid here, regardless of whom they criticize.

In terms of "condo-gate" itself (or whatever everyone has decided to call it), I find the arguments from both sides unpersuasive.

Conservatives are jumping to conclusions that Yglesias is a hypocrite solely because he supports liberal causes like income equality but obviously is earning more than an average wage. The implication is somehow that liberals are not allowed to make money, or that if they do, they should give it all to charity or something. It could well be that Yglesias would be fine with his own taxes being substantially higher; he also could give significantly to charity; we don't know. The obvious reference case here is Warren Buffett, a multi-billionaire who is on record as believing his own taxes should be higher.

Furthermore, this brings us back to the other discussion of Republicanism and Christianity. The very same argument being implied against Yglesias here could be applied to Republicans who make lots of money, because Jesus was arguably even less of a fan of the super-rich than liberals are.

As for the response to the conservatives, I've found much of it rather facile. One of the most common replies is typified by that of Paul Krugman:

But second, notice how quickly a staple of right-wing outrage goes out the window if there’s possible political gains to be made by violating a supposed principle. All through the 2012 campaign we were lectured about the evils of “attacking success“, which was defined as any criticism of how a wealthy individual got that way. But as soon as they think they spot an opening, right-wingers go ahead and … attack success. And unlike Romney, who was criticized for his business practices rather than his wealth per se, Yglesias is under attack simply for doing well.

Sorry, but no, he is not being attacked "simply for doing well". He's being attacked for the perception that his spending habits are not consistent with his political views. One can certainly argue against that, as I have above, but dismissing it as "attacking success" is hand-waving.

It's also worth pointing out that just as Krugman thinks it is unreasonable for right-wingers to "attack success" here when they didn't for people like Romney, it is likewise unreasonable if liberals attack Romney over his wealth but not liberals who are also well-to-do.
 
The attack on Yglesias was dumb. He has never advocated against people being wealthy, he has advocated for higher taxes on the wealthy. If he had been deliberately moving his money around to pay an artificially low rate I think that would be hypocritical. The people attacking him for this aren't stupid, I just think they don't care.

I would have to say that liberals attacking Romney would so frequently go out of their way to say they weren't attacking wealthy people in general that it made reading attacks on Romney really tiresome.

Yes though, I agree that Republicans in this case are not attacking success, and that krugman is wrong on that point. I don't think that the equivalences with Romney attacks holds up well though.
 
The problem with your statement, "It could well be that Yglesias would be fine with his own taxes being substantially higher; he also could give significantly to charity; we don't know," is that we very well do know. If one wants to contribute more towards social causes via the government, the IRS will happily accept a personal check for any amount you wish to send them over and above what you owe. The opposite (that is, one who wants to pay fewer taxes) is legally forbidden and punishable by fines and imprisonment. Thus, while there are plenty of hypocrites on all sides, it's factually incorrect to say that there is some hidden variable here preventing him from living out his dream of financial support of liberal causes.
 
The problem with your statement, "It could well be that Yglesias would be fine with his own taxes being substantially higher; he also could give significantly to charity; we don't know," is that we very well do know. If one wants to contribute more towards social causes via the government, the IRS will happily accept a personal check for any amount you wish to send them over and above what you owe. The opposite (that is, one who wants to pay fewer taxes) is legally forbidden and punishable by fines and imprisonment. Thus, while there are plenty of hypocrites on all sides, it's factually incorrect to say that there is some hidden variable here preventing him from living out his dream of financial support of liberal causes.

Of course this is factually false. Yglesias' position is not that selected people should voluntarily pay higher taxes, it is that all wealthy people, of which he is one, should pay higher taxes collectively. You are attempting to attach a position to him that he does snot hold, and I can't help but feel that you know it.

Similarly, any person who advocates military action against Iran does not need to go personally invade, he is advocating for collective action. Choosing not to take the country down like Rambo in no way makes him a hypocrite. If Yglesias were acting to avoid the same taxes he says he should pay, that would make him a hypocrite. There is no evidence of this.
 
eskimospy gave the response I was going to, and even used the war analogy I was thinking of. 🙂

I'll also add that we don't know how much the man makes nor what his assets are. It could well be that he voluntarily contributes much more than he is required to, probably in the form of charity, and still has enough to buy a house.

It's also worth pointing out that in big cities in the US, $1.2 million doesn't buy what it used to. This is a 3-BR row house, not a mansion. And of course, a higher percentage of conservatives live in less expensive areas than liberals do, which makes this story play better to "the base".
 
This has nothing to do with Christianity. This is a extremely conservative site that in no way, shape, or form represents the collective views of conservatives much less Christians.

But I'm sure it makes perfect sense to you to imply Christians are hypocrites because Breitbart happened to slam Matthew "The Rent Is Too Damn High" Yglesias for espousing socialistic concepts on one hand while reaping the benefits of capitalism on the other while criticizing others for making too much money. I find your thought process to be quite disturbing.
 
This doesn't seem to be a case of someone taking a limo to work for an hour at a soup kitchen (when donating the money would be more effective), or of having a mansion while chiding the rest of us about our carbon footprint.

So, Al Gore is a climate hypocrite. Having a nice condo doesn't make Matt Yglesias a tax policy one.
 
This has nothing to do with Christianity. This is a extremely conservative site that in no way, shape, or form represents the collective views of conservatives much less Christians.

But I'm sure it makes perfect sense to you to imply Christians are hypocrites because Breitbart happened to slam Matthew "The Rent Is Too Damn High" Yglesias for espousing socialistic concepts on one hand while reaping the benefits of capitalism on the other while criticizing others for making too much money. I find your thought process to be quite disturbing.

Maybe you can provide us a kink to Yglesias criticizing others for making too much money?
 
And I find your decision to focus on only one small part of my post disappointing.
What were you thinking that made Christianity even remotely relevant to the Breitbart hit piece? Why would you bring up Christainity at all?

Instead of explaining yourself...you criticize me for bringing light to the incredibly irrelevant portion of what you wrote. /facepalm
 
Oh Jesus. He is making an argument that artificial scarcity and screwed up incentives have led to economic inefficiency and a distorted market. You are trying to argue that one is a hypocrite ff they reap the benefits of capitalism while criticizing the super uncapitalistic and cartel like medical industry?

Now that's rich. Tell us another one.

You asked for a link where Yglesias criticized others for making too much money and I provided it. He said "We pay our doctors way too much."

Now you get you panties in a bunch. There is no pleasing you.

I just hope my daughter in her 3rd year of residency does as well as Yglesias after paying off her $250k in school loans.
 
You asked for a link where Yglesias criticized others for making too much money and I provided it. He said "We pay our doctors way too much."

Now you get you panties in a bunch. There is no pleasing you.

I just hope my daughter in her 3rd year of residency does as well as Yglesias after paying off her $250k in school loans.

Hey, if you need to rely on such dishonest arguments that's your business. You said he was living off the benefits of capitalism while telling others that they made too much money. Oh, you also basically called him a socialist.

When I asked you to back it up, you linked an article where he criticized an extremely uncapitalistic cartel-like industry for artificial shortages and other such abuses. I have to admit it takes some chutzpah to try and attack someone for being against capitalism by citing their attack on cartel behavior, so in that way I respect the effort.
 
Hey, if you need to rely on such dishonest arguments that's your business. You said he was living off the benefits of capitalism while telling others that they made too much money. Oh, you also basically called him a socialist.

When I asked you to back it up, you linked an article where he criticized an extremely uncapitalistic cartel-like industry for artificial shortages and other such abuses. I have to admit it takes some chutzpah to try and attack someone for being against capitalism by citing their attack on cartel behavior, so in that way I respect the effort.
If Yglesias can afford a $1.2mm house...he is reaping the benefits of capitalism. If you read the article, he clearly states we pay our doctors too much. And I'm somehow being dishonest? That's pure bullshit and I don't appreciate your accusation.
 
What were you thinking that made Christianity even remotely relevant to the Breitbart hit piece? Why would you bring up Christainity at all?

Instead of explaining yourself...you criticize me for bringing light to the incredibly irrelevant portion of what you wrote. /facepalm

I brought up Christianity only to point out that saying "liberals say we should help the poor so they should never have a million dollar house" is just as invalid as saying "Christians say we should help the poor so they should never have a million dollar house".

You ignored most of what I said and homed in on what is obviously a sore spot for you, but I thought the OP was rather clear that the mention of Christianity was incidental.
 
I brought up Christianity only to point out that saying "liberals say we should help the poor so they should never have a million dollar house" is just as invalid as saying "Christians say we should help the poor so they should never have a million dollar house".

You ignored most of what I said and homed in on what is obviously a sore spot for you, but I thought the OP was rather clear that the mention of Christianity was incidental.
Do Christians living in million dollar houses criticize others for making too much money? Therein lies the rub.
 
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Righties are consistent on this - they don't understand the liberal's position, so they argue against a straw man, and then call them hypocritical based on the false position.

You know, people opposing gun restrictions want people to get killed to control the population. Yet they let people have all the kids they want, so they're hypocrites!
 
No, they just claim to follow a savior who disdained wealth and greed, while supporting a political party that worships them.
You've completely ignored my point and twisted it into a 'Christians are hypocrites' mini-rant. You've essentially gone from defending Yglesias and his 1.2mm house to calling Christians hypocrites in just a handful of posts. Good job.

Note to self: I'm really not sure if I can do this kind of "discussion" much more.
 
eskimospy gave the response I was going to, and even used the war analogy I was thinking of. 🙂

I'll also add that we don't know how much the man makes nor what his assets are. It could well be that he voluntarily contributes much more than he is required to, probably in the form of charity, and still has enough to buy a house.

It's also worth pointing out that in big cities in the US, $1.2 million doesn't buy what it used to. This is a 3-BR row house, not a mansion. And of course, a higher percentage of conservatives live in less expensive areas than liberals do, which makes this story play better to "the base".
And here we run into a much bigger problem: that of coerced collective action superseding individual liberty. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. However, if what's good for the gander isn't good for the goose, the goose is cooked simply because the gander will hold his webbed feet to the fire until they extract whatever they're after.
 
You've completely ignored my point and twisted it into a 'Christians are hypocrites' mini-rant. You've essentially gone from defending Yglesias and his 1.2mm house to calling Christians hypocrites in just a handful of posts. Good job.

My original post partially defended Yglesias and also criticized some on the left who criticized his critics.

The point about Christians was, as I said, incidental. You chose to cherry-pick it out of my post and make a big fuss about it, not me.

For the third time, I only mentioned the Christian hypocrisy issue to highlight the parallel between conservatives and liberals each tut-tutting the other side's rich members -- it's invalid to say "liberals want to help the poor so why do they have expensive houses" for the same reason it's invalid to say "conservatives claim to follow Jesus so why do they have expensive houses".

Cyclowizard, sorry I'm not sure what you're analogizing there with all the waterfowl. 🙂
 
For the third time, I only mentioned the Christian hypocrisy issue to highlight the parallel between conservatives and liberals each tut-tutting the other side's rich members -- it's invalid to say "liberals want to help the poor so why do they have expensive houses" for the same reason it's invalid to say "conservatives claim to follow Jesus so why do they have expensive houses".
Question: If Christians living in million dollar houses criticized others for making too much money would it be reasonable to call them hypocrites for doing so?
 
Question: If Christians living in million dollar houses criticized others for making too much money would it be reasonable to call them hypocrites for doing so?

If all I know about them is that they are Christian and they live in a nice house? Certainly not. (For the record, I don't think it's reasonable to flatly declare that anyone "makes too much money".)
 
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If all I know about them is that they are Christian and they live in a nice house? Certainly not. (For the record, I don't think it's reasonable to flatly declare that anyone "makes too much money".
My question goes beyond just living in a nice house...the question is about hypocrisy...please try to focus. These "Christians" have a nice job and happen to live in a $1.2mm house and they've been very vocal about others making too much money. Would it be reasonable to call them hypocrites for doing so?
 
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