A liberals idea of what the tax code should be.

[YellowRose]

Being a gun toting liberal democrat here is my idea for a new tax code.

Ind. Income Taxes

No deductions will be allowed. None. Nada. Zero.

income *********************** taxrate
0-50,000 *********************** 2%
50,001-100,000 ***************** 5%
100,001-225,000 ***************10%
225,001 and above ************* 20%

Business Taxes

No deductions will be allowed. None. Nada. Zero.

gross revenue ************** Tax Rate This also includes any overseas revenue.
0 to 1 million *************** 18%
$1,000,001 and above ******* 35%

 

[Dissipate]

One glaring problem with your tax code. You have fixed the size of government to a percentage of the economy. The cost of government still has no relationship with the amount of revenue it brings in. Furthermore, this tax code would perpetuate the class driven society that we have today, those who are in the 0-$50,000 bracket will pay nothing yet will still be allowed to vote for politicians who increase spending. I cover all of this in my essay: The Case for a Head Tax

 

[Mursilis]

That's nice and all, but pretty low for the sort of social spending most liberals have in mind. And don't gross revenues mean all income before expenses? (It's been years since I took accounting). So if you're taxing gross revenue, you could conceivably be taxing businesses even when they lose money that year. I'm not sure I agree with that.

 

[BugsBunny1078]

If you make $100,000 you pay 5% leaving you with $95,000. But if you make $100,001 you pay 10% leaving you with $90,000.90?

 

[XZeroII]

Why should people who make more have to pay a higher percentage? Please justify your numbers. Why did you choose them and not 5% higher.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
Why should people who make more have to pay a higher percentage? Please justify your numbers. Why did you choose them and not 5% higher.

Futhermore, what right does the government have to know what someone's income is?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: YellowRose
Being a gun toting liberal democrat here is my idea for a new tax code.

Ind. Income Taxes

No deductions will be allowed. None. Nada. Zero.

income *********************** taxrate
0-50,000 *********************** 2%
50,001-100,000 ***************** 5%
100,001-225,000 ***************10%
225,001 and above ************* 20%

Business Taxes

No deductions will be allowed. None. Nada. Zero.

gross revenue ************** Tax Rate This also includes any overseas revenue.
0 to 1 million *************** 18%
$1,000,001 and above ******* 35%

and watch businesses leave the country...

the euros don't tax overseas income, iirc.

and is that even enough to pay for the big ass federal gov't everyone seems to love?

 

[YellowRose]

Don't know if its enough to pay for everything but its a whole lot better then what we have now. At least everyone is paying in. Wachovia paid zero taxes on 4 billion in profits an in fact they got a refund in excess of 100 million dollars to boot. Guess who has to make up for that shortfall. You and me.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: YellowRose
Don't know if its enough to pay for everything but its a whole lot better then what we have now. At least everyone is paying in. Wachovia paid zero taxes on 4 billion in profits an in fact they got a refund in excess of 100 million dollars to boot. Guess who has to make up for that shortfall. You and me.

This Corporate Thievery, Fraud and Deception can be easily corrected without making the U.S. Caste System worse than it already is. You fix the system that Wachovia and the rest are making Swiss Cheese out of instead of trying to put a Band-Aid on it's victims (You and me like you said).

Thanks YellowRose for being another voice that sees the Corporate Thugs for what they are. We have their fellow "Band of Thieves" in here supporting them tooth and nail because they profit from the Thugs profitting at our expense.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: YellowRose
Guess who has to make up for that shortfall. You and me.

You have a lot to learn about how the government works. The government is not on a fixed income that is tied to some fixed cost. The size of government is tied to the size of the economy, by and large. If government did have a fixed cost, then I would agree with your statement.

However, the government basically has taxed as much as it possibly can get away with. Therefore, if someone doesn't pay into the system that doesn't mean that taxpayers have to pay more. For instance, let's say the economy goes into a recession and shrinks, then the size of government will shrink, people will pe paying in less. Under your logic the government would raise taxes, but in fact it won't because it is already at maximum taxation level.

You may wonder, well if people or corporations are paying in more then the government will cut taxes. This is not the case. Even in times of economic growth when the government was pulling in a lot more revenue then before it didn't cut taxes (at least significantly). Evidence of this can be seen during Clinton's administration when "supposedly" we had a tax surplus. Tax revenue as a % of GDP did not go down.

Historically the government has taxed away about 34% of the economy.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: YellowRose
Don't know if its enough to pay for everything but its a whole lot better then what we have now. At least everyone is paying in. Wachovia paid zero taxes on 4 billion in profits an in fact they got a refund in excess of 100 million dollars to boot. Guess who has to make up for that shortfall. You and me.

This Corporate Thievery, Fraud and Deception can be easily corrected without making the U.S. Caste System worse than it already is. You fix the system that Wachovia and the rest are making Swiss Cheese out of instead of trying to put a Band-Aid on it's victims (You and me like you said).

Thanks YellowRose for being another voice that sees the Corporate Thugs for what they are. We have their fellow "Band of Thieves" in here supporting them tooth and nail because they profit from the Thugs profitting at our expense.

we could make our caste system more like what communism does, ruling elite over impoverished lower class(no or very small middle class)

20th century applied socialism- where a dictator/oligarchy rules over a nation with a large lower class and the middle and upper class are all part of the ruling party(almost exactly like communism)

or india where it's 5 tier caste system is religiously oriented.

so which would you prefer? i am talking reality here BTW, not the same tired old 19th century theoretical socialism which has never worked in the many times it has been tried.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: YellowRose
Don't know if its enough to pay for everything but its a whole lot better then what we have now. At least everyone is paying in. Wachovia paid zero taxes on 4 billion in profits an in fact they got a refund in excess of 100 million dollars to boot. Guess who has to make up for that shortfall. You and me.

actually i did not, i got back more money thx to bush's tax cut ,which i then spent along with others and contributed to the economic recovery teh dems try so hard to disguise.

when through taxes or whatever expense it becomes more expensive for a busines/service provider to operate does that mean the business is paying more of it's "fair share"?

if you said "yes" you are wrong. cost of operation/production is ALWAYS passed to the CONSUMER.

for example:

if kerry wins and gets his gas tax increase, who pays it? WE DO but not just at the pump! t creates a chain.

wherever you buy groceries the increased cost of tranpsortation will make goods more expensive for the farmer to produce who offsets the cost by increasing prices which is passed on the wholsaler, who buys and distributes the food who offsets the cost by increasing prices to the grocer to buys the food from the wholsaler who offsets the cost by increasing prices to the CONSUMER...ever the last one in every chain!

when you tax businesses you in reality tax yourself. you just feel better about it!

 

[Siddhartha]

Please change the thread's title to "One Liberal's(me) idea of what the tax code should be".

 

[kylebisme]

i think most middle to lower class people would just be happy with the rich not getting away with paying a smaller % of their income in taxes.

 

[Gravity]

Your focus on the tax system is misguided. The government (state and fed) continues to consider itself to be all things to all people. Government cannot solve the ills of society and when it tries it is ineffecient, ineffective and wasteful. Instead of revamping the tax code, which is a huge undertaking, let's revamp government and end the power driven haze that creates a hunger for our tax dollars.

 

[chess9]

Dissipate:

Class divisions exist because of cultural differences, of which income is only a fractional part. I have friends who are much richer than me and much poorer than me because our friendships are based upon non-economic issues. Class divisions will always exist at some level, regardless of the structure of our tax code. This "class warfare" nonsense is always trotted out by the neocons and Libertarians as some sort of ugly banner against our current tax code. What rubbish.

Anyway, the problem with that tax code is I'd be paying less taxes, which means the government would have a lot less money. People earning above $50,000 per year need to pay a lot more, I'm afraid.
-Robert

 

[Wolfdog]

Then again we could outsource our own governmnet overseas and save ourselves billions of dollars every year. Joking aside I think that cutting down on the amount of times your paycheck gets taxed would be more important than creating new tax brackets. Those of you that actually get a paycheck (rim shot please. ) know this good and well. You get the fedreral,state and FICA raped right out of the check before you even get it. Then you put it in a bank account where I have both a interest checking and savings, but wait you can't make more than $10 before you are then taxed again on the interest that you make. Then when you write a check to buy something you are taxed again at the store for another state tax. So instead of those tax brackets they should say enlarge the dividends cieling to $100 and let the people that don't have 100k+ the ability to receive more dividends aka save more money without having it taxed again. The same thing goes for bonds, etc. The smaller investors are getting raped.

 

[Ornery]

Business Taxes

No deductions will be allowed. None. Nada. Zero.

Typical Democrat here. CLUELESS! I hope to hell you, and people like you, aren't registered. :disgust:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: YellowRose
Don't know if its enough to pay for everything but its a whole lot better then what we have now. At least everyone is paying in. Wachovia paid zero taxes on 4 billion in profits an in fact they got a refund in excess of 100 million dollars to boot. Guess who has to make up for that shortfall. You and me.

This Corporate Thievery, Fraud and Deception can be easily corrected without making the U.S. Caste System worse than it already is. You fix the system that Wachovia and the rest are making Swiss Cheese out of instead of trying to put a Band-Aid on it's victims (You and me like you said).

Thanks YellowRose for being another voice that sees the Corporate Thugs for what they are. We have their fellow "Band of Thieves" in here supporting them tooth and nail because they profit from the Thugs profitting at our expense.

we could make our caste system more like what communism does, ruling elite over impoverished lower class(no or very small middle class)

20th century applied socialism- where a dictator/oligarchy rules over a nation with a large lower class and the middle and upper class are all part of the ruling party(almost exactly like communism)

or india where it's 5 tier caste system is religiously oriented.

so which would you prefer? i am talking reality here BTW, not the same tired old 19th century theoretical socialism which has never worked in the many times it has been tried.

It's clearly the Corporate Rich Boy Club Elite taking over and running the U.S. Government:

Amy Weiss
March 25, 2004
Jonathan Lamy
Amanda Collins
202-775-0101

RIAA Applauds Leahy-Hatch Bill Empowering Justice Department
To Bring Civil Copyright Infringement Cases

[U.S. Sens. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) and Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), the Ranking
Member and Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee respectively, this
afternoon introduced legislation that would allow the U.S. Department of
Justice (DOJ) to bring civil copyright infringement cases. Under current
law, the Justice Department can only bring criminal copyright cases, which
necessarily includes criminal penalties such as fines and prison time and a
criminal record. The Leahy-Hatch proposal would allow for federal civil
claims with damages and restitution as the penalty without a criminal
penalty or record. The introduction of this legislation follows the recent
announcement by the FBI and the RIAA of a new voluntary,
government-sanctioned anti-piracy seal and warning that can be included on
various types of copyrighted music.]

Comment of Mitch Bainwol, Chairman and CEO, RIAA
On the Leahy-Hatch legislation:

?I commend Senators Leahy and Hatch for this common sense proposal. The
music community appreciates their tremendous leadership.

?As the recent announcement of the FBI?s new anti-piracy warning attests,
copyright infringement is a serious crime damaging the thousands of
hardworking artists, songwriters and everyone else who help bring music to
the public. This legislation provides federal prosecutors with the
flexibility and discretion to bring copyright infringement cases that best
correspond to the nature of the crime.

?Despite some encouraging signs, piracy continues to plague the music
community. There?s an essential role for education, enforcement by
copyright owners, and federal prosecutions of the worst offenders.?

 

[Ornery]

Hell yeah, we ought to write some kind of amendment to defend our God given right to pirate other's work, damn it! :|

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: YellowRose
Don't know if its enough to pay for everything but its a whole lot better then what we have now. At least everyone is paying in. Wachovia paid zero taxes on 4 billion in profits an in fact they got a refund in excess of 100 million dollars to boot. Guess who has to make up for that shortfall. You and me.

actually i did not, i got back more money thx to bush's tax cut ,which i then spent along with others and contributed to the economic recovery teh dems try so hard to disguise.

Actually, you did, or rather you will. That $100 million refund was added to the deficit along with the hundreds of millions more Wachovia did not pay on its profits. While you did not pay for 2003 corporate welfare yet, part of the income tax you did pay was applied to past years' corporate welfare and the interest it adds to the national debt.

When someone doesn't pay their share of taxes, other taxpayers pick up the slack. That's just the way it is.

when through taxes or whatever expense it becomes more expensive for a busines/service provider to operate does that mean the business is paying more of it's "fair share"?

if you said "yes" you are wrong. cost of operation/production is ALWAYS passed to the CONSUMER.

Income taxes are NOT a cost of operation or production. They are a tax on PROFITS. You continue to misunderstand this critical difference.

Profits are returned to a company's owners/investors. Income taxes reduce the amount of profits returned. In a free market, business income taxes do NOT affect the price of goods.

Prudent business owners always price their wares to return the greatest profit for the business. Owners may choose to raise prices so they can draw more profits. They have to do so carefully, however, because this can make their product prices uncompetitive. Owners may choose to lower prices to increase sales, believing they will profit more by selling more widgets at a lower, per-widget profit. Either way, the selling price is set to maximize profits. Income tax comes after the fact.

Businesses will always set their prices as high as necessary to generate the greatest profit. This is true whether their income tax rate is 0% or 10% or 90%. Income tax doesn't affect product prices. It only affects how much profit the investors receive.

[ ... ]when you tax businesses you in reality tax yourself. you just feel better about it!

Not necessarily. When you assess income taxes on a business, you tax its owners.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Business Taxes

No deductions will be allowed. None. Nada. Zero.

Typical Democrat here. CLUELESS! I hope to hell you, and people like you, aren't registered. :disgust:

Don't be such a partisan jerk. This isn't a Dems vs. Reps problem. When it comes to business and taxes, there are plenty of people on both sides who don't understand how things work. This includes you and me, at least to some extent.

 

[Ornery]

The bulk of the Democrat's base IS just like this nitwit. All they know is that, business is evil, the man is keeping me down, and the rich don't need all that money. Maybe these things ought to be touched on in public school, eh?

 

[biostud]

Our income taxation looks like this:

0-6000$ 0%
6001-35000$ ~38%
35001-50000$ ~44%
50001$-> ~59%

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Ornery
The bulk of the Democrat's base IS just like this nitwit. All they know is that, business is evil, the man is keeping me down, and the rich don't need all that money. Maybe these things ought to be touched on in public school, eh?

No, "nitwit", they are not. Your claims are standard ignorant, empty right-wing attacks, a dishonest straw man intended to preempt meaningful discussion about equitable tax policies.