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A Graphics Card To Buy, FX5900Ultra or 9800 Pro?

I

ICMAN

Member
I'm looking to buy a 256MB Card that is the BEST. What to buy and where from (the cheapest)?

I thought the nvidia is the best hands down. Do you guys know where I can find up-to-date comparason online between the cards? Also, I have an old GeForce2 Ultra, and I need an upgrade to the best around. I usually keep my cards for long, so the best is essential, and I need something that would last for long (in terms playing games in descent quality for long time) what do you guys think?
 
MSI MS-8912 FX5600-VTDR128, where to buy $200 cheaper than the two monsters.....setting back and looking at the prices of those big time cards, i would say screw them.....anythng better for the price?
 
I don't think you going to convince a guy looking at $450 video cards to buy a 5600 Icman, he probably wants to run some high res AA/AF and won't be too happy at 10X7 low detail.
 
Go with the 9700 PRO it's significantly cheaper and it will run HL2, so you will be set until the next cycle of cards come out thus dropping the price of the 5900 Ultra's and 9800 PRO's (cheaper than Ultra). It still has not been determined that a 256 meg card is needed to run today's games but that is subject to change Oct 1, 2003 when Half-Life 2 is on the store shelves.
 
ICMAN-
How did you go from wanting the best, price is no object, to 5600s and 9700s?

Anyway, I just ordered the 9800 Pro 128MB, Sapphire retail. $372 and it comes with RTCW and SOF2 full versions, can't beat that. The 9800Pro has approximately equal performance to the 5900U, and costs $70 less. (can't beat that either)

I had a 9700Pro for 8 months, it was the best video card I ever had.

The only cards I would consider these days are the 9800 Pro, and the 5900s. My .02
 
Originally posted by: Rollo
ICMAN-
How did you go from wanting the best, price is no object, to 5600s and 9700s?

Anyway, I just ordered the 9800 Pro 128MB, Sapphire retail. $372 and it comes with RTCW and SOF2 full versions, can't beat that. The 9800Pro has approximately equal performance to the 5900U, and costs $70 less. (can't beat that either)

I had a 9700Pro for 8 months, it was the best video card I ever had.

The only cards I would consider these days are the 9800 Pro, and the 5900s. My .02
Click to expand...

newegg?
 
Originally posted by: Rollo
ICMAN-
How did you go from wanting the best, price is no object, to 5600s and 9700s?

Anyway, I just ordered the 9800 Pro 128MB, Sapphire retail. $372 and it comes with RTCW and SOF2 full versions, can't beat that. The 9800Pro has approximately equal performance to the 5900U, and costs $70 less. (can't beat that either)

I had a 9700Pro for 8 months, it was the best video card I ever had.

The only cards I would consider these days are the 9800 Pro, and the 5900s. My .02
Click to expand...

I bought a new motherboard, processor, and memory. I just thought that I don't really need that much "processing" in my vedio card and that I can OC a slower one. I really wish to see the difference between 9700pro and 9800pro, see not measure. I'm not sure why you bought the 9800pro, did you really need it or just wanted to get rid of your 9700pro while it still worth something?

 
Rollo is a serious gamer and he obviously wants a card from the niche where money isn't much of an object, much because he coudl be investing another $100 into a 256 9800 Pro or 5900U, apparently it isn't worth it to him as it certainly isn't worth it to the masses (games aren't exactly ready for that much memory). Overclocking can be a risk, and an unecessary one at that. And judging from history, newer products tend to be faster and generally superior than their ancestors, this includes overclocking. The 9800 can be pushed more than the 9700 because ATI has had time to optimize and get better yields, you can defeinately push a 9800 core higher than you could a 9700. So even if you think you're being sly and getting an older card thinking you'll just tweak it to be as fast as the newer and more expensive versions, then you're fooling yourself as those with the newer cards could do the very thing you are and get obtain performance even more superior to what you will get. Sometimes it is nice to have money, and if you can spare it, it certainly doesn't hurt to invest in the more exotic and expensive hardware parts.

If you really want a top of the line card and do not wish to spend top dollar then I'd look into something inbetween the $200 upper midrange to the $400 extreme. Something around $300 such as a 9800 non Pro could suit you well as if you are into the tweeking business chances are you could flash the bios and get it to run like a 9800 Pro with no questions asked and then be able to tweak/oc it from there. Otherwise it looks like Rollo got a good deal on a 9800 Pro as it is, under $400 plus two games that certainly arn't terrible (at least I really like them)
 
I'm not sure why you bought the 9800pro, did you really need it or just wanted to get rid of your 9700pro while it still worth something?
Click to expand...
I sold my 9700 Pro at the beginning of June because I wanted to try a 5800. I've been using that the last 5 weeks and like it, but nVidia's removal of it from their website and telling reviewers it was a "mistake" seriously devalued it. ( I notice they waited to remove it from their website when they had sold them to the vendors, who in turn sold to us at premium prices.
When I emailed Derek Perez and Carrie Cowan of nVidia PR about this situation, they didn't bother to reply, and that was over three weeks ago. That annoyed me as I've purchased a TNT1, TNT2, GF1 SDR, a 64MB GF2, a 64MB GF2 Pro, a GF3 reg, a GF4 Ti4400, a GF4 Ti 4200, GF FX5800 all retail, all new. Not to mention the friends I've convinced to buy nVidia when I thought they were best and the stocks.
So screw them. I put the 5800 up for sale and ordered a 9800Pro. At this point, their "Hahaha we got your money, f*** you attitude" leaves me cold on nVidia. (although I like the 5900 line in general)
 
Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
Go with the 9700 PRO it's significantly cheaper and it will run HL2, so you will be set until the next cycle of cards come out thus dropping the price of the 5900 Ultra's and 9800 PRO's (cheaper than Ultra). It still has not been determined that a 256 meg card is needed to run today's games but that is subject to change Oct 1, 2003 when Half-Life 2 is on the store shelves.
Click to expand...

i think you are confused about the HL2 situation. the nvidia cards will run it fine. problems will only occur when FSAA is enabled. Both nVidia and ATI cards are affected, ATI has not fixed it yet, but wth am i doing. i am now discussing problems that have not been fixed for a game that is not out yet.😕
 
This issue has been rehashed many times so I suggest that a search might be useful. I'll recommend a 9800 Pro for various reasons, as I always do.

Also the HL2 FSAA "issue" isn't really an issue at all. Apparently the whole thing has been blown out of proportion and the problems that are supposed to happen already happen in today's games that use packed lightmaps combined with MSAA.
 
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Rollo is a serious gamer and he obviously wants a card from the niche where money isn't much of an object, much because he coudl be investing another $100 into a 256 9800 Pro or 5900U, apparently it isn't worth it to him as it certainly isn't worth it to the masses (games aren't exactly ready for that much memory). Overclocking can be a risk, and an unecessary one at that. And judging from history, newer products tend to be faster and generally superior than their ancestors, this includes overclocking. The 9800 can be pushed more than the 9700 because ATI has had time to optimize and get better yields, you can defeinately push a 9800 core higher than you could a 9700. So even if you think you're being sly and getting an older card thinking you'll just tweak it to be as fast as the newer and more expensive versions, then you're fooling yourself as those with the newer cards could do the very thing you are and get obtain performance even more superior to what you will get. Sometimes it is nice to have money, and if you can spare it, it certainly doesn't hurt to invest in the more exotic and expensive hardware parts.

If you really want a top of the line card and do not wish to spend top dollar then I'd look into something inbetween the $200 upper midrange to the $400 extreme. Something around $300 such as a 9800 non Pro could suit you well as if you are into the tweeking business chances are you could flash the bios and get it to run like a 9800 Pro with no questions asked and then be able to tweak/oc it from there. Otherwise it looks like Rollo got a good deal on a 9800 Pro as it is, under $400 plus two games that certainly arn't terrible (at least I really like them)
Click to expand...

A serious gamer is a smart gamer. A gamer would not spend the money earlier than it needs to be. 9700 pro would just do EXCELLENT in today's games, and I can bet that the user WILL NOT feel any difference between the two cards in normal resolutions. A true gamer would love the game and not the amount of money has in his box.

Rollo explained the issue already.

Rollo, nVidia is just like any other company, all what they care about is money, screw them all.

I think I'll end up getting the 9800pro or if I need to save some money, I would get the 9700pro.
 
Originally posted by ICMAN: A serious gamer is a smart gamer. A gamer would not spend the money earlier than it needs to be. 9700 pro would just do EXCELLENT in today's games, and I can bet that the user WILL NOT feel any difference between the two cards in normal resolutions. A true gamer would love the game and not the amount of money has in his box.
Click to expand...

Those statements make absolutely no sense. If a gamer is always "waiting for the top of the line" product before purchasing, then they would wait forever. There will never be an "end all and be all" VPU out there, so gamers need to go with what they are comfortable spending. If they have the money, then there is no reason why they couldn't or shouldn't spend it. You can't base buying decisions on games that are at least 3-4 months away (HL2) or a year away (D3).

I disagree. I'd be more than happy to put my Hercules 9800 Pro up against a 9700 Pro. You will see a difference. And one of the major reasons why people do purchase the high-end cards is because we do like to play our games in resolutions higher than 1280X1024. That's why we shell out the big bucks.

I can tell you haven't been playing games for long. A true gamer loves the ammount of money that he/she has put into their box BECAUSE it makes the experience of the game that much more enjoyable.
 
A serious gamer is a smart gamer.
Click to expand...
And smart gamers are serious!

Heh- I couldn't resist.

Good purchase on the Hercules 9800P Boss10L. I agonized over that and the Sapphire, with the RTCW included winning it for the Sapphire. Love Hercules cards though, good stuff, always seem to be made a little better.
 
Originally posted by Rollo:
Good purchase on the Hercules 9800P Boss10L. I agonized over that and the Sapphire, with the RTCW included winning it for the Sapphire. Love Hercules cards though, good stuff, always seem to be made a little better.
Click to expand...

I was going to go with a regular ATI retail card from newegg, but I saw a review for the Hercules, and I love the fact that they did it on blue circuit board and put a LED blue fan on it. I had been a long-time Nvidia devotee, but the whole FX5800 thing was a real kick in the pants (no I didn't buy one, but I feel for those that did buy). That and the Radeon chipset has been mopping the floor with anything Nvidia has. Sure, the FX5900 is king of the hill right now, but it isn't by much, and its a full $100 more. I'm not opposed to spending the extra cash (as long as I don't tell the wife 😀 ), but not on a basically inferior product.

*on edit - I too looked at the Sapphire, but I already have RTCW. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: BOSS10L
Originally posted by ICMAN: A serious gamer is a smart gamer. A gamer would not spend the money earlier than it needs to be. 9700 pro would just do EXCELLENT in today's games, and I can bet that the user WILL NOT feel any difference between the two cards in normal resolutions. A true gamer would love the game and not the amount of money has in his box.
Click to expand...

Those statements make absolutely no sense. If a gamer is always "waiting for the top of the line" product before purchasing, then they would wait forever. There will never be an "end all and be all" VPU out there, so gamers need to go with what they are comfortable spending. If they have the money, then there is no reason why they couldn't or shouldn't spend it. You can't base buying decisions on games that are at least 3-4 months away (HL2) or a year away (D3).

I disagree. I'd be more than happy to put my Hercules 9800 Pro up against a 9700 Pro. You will see a difference. And one of the major reasons why people do purchase the high-end cards is because we do like to play our games in resolutions higher than 1280X1024. That's why we shell out the big bucks.

I can tell you haven't been playing games for long. A true gamer loves the ammount of money that he/she has put into their box BECAUSE it makes the experience of the game that much more enjoyable.
Click to expand...


Just because there are "better" boards out there it doesn't mean you will actually enjoy yourself more if you spend the money and buy it. You still don't need the 9800pro just yet, and you can't argue that with me. Even the 9800pro would suffer at >1280x1024 resolutions in extreme cases. You waste money by buying every new card that comes out. You should at least skip one card and then get the one after that so you actually see/feel a real difference. If a person has that much money to waste and enjoy wasting money, then may God help him.

And "serious" is NOT "more spending for nothing" really.

GIVE ME ONE SERIOUS DIFFERENCE IN THE INTEGRATED CIRCUIT OF THE 9700PRO AND THE 9800PRO.
 
GIVE ME ONE SERIOUS DIFFERENCE IN THE INTEGRATED CIRCUIT OF THE 9700PRO AND THE 9800PRO.
Click to expand...

Here's a few ICMAN:
Difference in 9800 and 9700

SMARTSHADER 2.1 ? Which gives the 9800 Pro beyond DX9 specs which ATI is calling DX9++. An F-Buffer has been introduced in the R350 core which allows long shader programs to be run much faster then previously and also gives unlimited pixel shader support allowing for a true OpenGL 2.0 compliant VPU.
SMOOTHVISION 2.1 ? Which is the AA/AF component of the 9800 Pro. This newer version has hardware enhancement of the memory controller for improved AA/AF performance at higher resolutions.
HyperZ III+ - Which is their Z-Culling technique. The Z-Cache has been enhanced to better handle stencil buffer data for features like shadow volumes.
The core has been tweaked to allow for higher stable clock speeds.
Click to expand...

If a person has that much money to waste and enjoy wasting money, then may God help him.
Click to expand...
If the person earned the money, what do you care how they spend it and who are you to judge what's a waste? I'd say video gaming on computers in general is a "waste"- my XBox runs all games smooth on a 32" tv in my den and the whole rig costs much less than my computer.



 
Here's a few ICMAN:
Click to expand...

Cool, I'm getting one.

If the person earned the money, what do you care how they spend it and who are you to judge what's a waste? I'd say video gaming on computers in general is a "waste"- my XBox runs all games smooth on a 32" tv in my den and the whole rig costs much less than my computer.
Click to expand...

I'm not judging, from your words I concluded that you were really happy with the 9700pro and I thought you bought the 9800Pro just because it is out there. And yes gaming is a big waste in itself. And the XBox games are not the same as the PC games, PC games enables a lot more features and the graphics looks alot better when you have an up-to-date hardware, don't you think?

I looked at the picture of the card you bought, it looks like the heatsink on it is a little bit smaller that the others (and frankly than what I expected to be), Am I not seeing this correctly or is it actually small and this thing doesn't need that much cooling, what is your input on this?

And I'm sorry for pushing my personal opnion, hell it is not business where other people spend their money🙂

I'm getting a 9800pro, it is a matter of wich board to buy.
 
But, to me, you just don't get the same games and control (strategy and fps) on consoles. For just gaming, I suppose consoles are a better value, but that doesn't make computer gaming a waste, IMO.
 
I don't think of computer gaming as a "waste", my point was you can't say one card is the right amount to spend and another isn't when you could get an XBox to play games with for less than the cost of either card. (i.e. all computer gaming is very expensive) I prefer to game on a computer.

As far as Sapphire's heatsink goes, it doesn't matter too much to me, I have a Zalman fan that mounts next to my video card and keeps the air moving around it. I think all the 9800 Pro fans look pretty wimpy personally, but think Hercules has the best.
 
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