A good way to get more $ into Social Security

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
How about the government fsck's off, and let's us save our own money? If you're too stupid to save for retirement, you deserve some sh!tty 'golden years'.

For the most part I agree. And for those special circumstances where someone is between a rock and a hard place, there can be other programs in place, not necessarily social security as it exists right now.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
How about the government fsck's off, and let's us save our own money? If you're too stupid to save for retirement, you deserve some sh!tty 'golden years'.

Unfortunately MOST people are too stupid to save for retirement properly. MOST people are not saving enough, and by the time they retire will have to lower their quality of life. Social security is the only thing keeping millions of seniors from starving to death as a result of their own poor planning. Without it they'd be on street corners dying, and we'd have to take care of them anyway, so we might as well grab their money while they're making it.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
How about the government fsck's off, and let's us save our own money? If you're too stupid to save for retirement, you deserve some sh!tty 'golden years'.

That is how SS came to be in the first place; When people came from the farms and into the industrialized cities. They had nothing to fall back on. People on the farms and frontiers had their own family/skills/social structure to fall back on.

 

[Ornery]

Screw that GD abortion of a program! :disgust:

SOCIAL SECURITY CHOICE
It's Your Money, Your Choice, Your Future

The benefits of adopting a private retirement system based on savings, investment, and personal ownership include:

• A substantial increase in retiree incomes as a result of higher returns on payroll taxes.
  The potential to eliminate poverty among retirees.
  Worker empowerment.
  Personal control.
  Greater retirement security.
  Provides a death benefit to loved ones in the event of premature death.
  Gives workers the ability to pass down wealth directly to their children.
  An unprecedented burst of economic growth.

 

[JDub02]

give me my money back, let me invest it the way i see fit, and tell the government to keep their mitts off of my money.

 

[nebula]

Originally posted by: SirWoj
I believe you can go to the social security website and order a report which lists your contributions over the years. They probably have information about how that money is returned to you after retirement. I belive it's http://www.ssa.gov.http://

They actually send me a yearly statement in the mail! I believe it says something like, "based on this information, you'll receive X amount at retirement", and shows how much you've made in the last several years. Kind of interesting but since I'm not close to retirement, it's kind of a waste of money to send it. My wife doesn't get one though.

 

[Rob9874]

I say offer the choice of privatization. Don't privatize all SS. But let us have a choice. I forget the actual figures, but if you invest your SS payments in a modest growth investment, you'd have so much more than what SS pays out. The reason Dems don't like it, it because it individualizes SS, and they like the communal approach. The "greater good" at the cost of what's good for me.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Rob9874
I say offer the choice of privatization. Don't privatize all SS. But let us have a choice. I forget the actual figures, but if you invest your SS payments in a modest growth investment, you'd have so much more than what SS pays out. The reason Dems don't like it, it because it individualizes SS, and they like the communal approach. The "greater good" at the cost of what's good for me.

Right now people paying in are getting about a 5% return (depending on their age). Babies born today are expected to get 2%-3%. No it isn't as good as the stock market (assuming the stock market goes up from now on) but it isn't awful either.

I personally don't like it since it opens the possibility for huge corruption. Suppose the government had forced investment in the stock market. The first question I'd ask is what are we allowed to invest in? Since it is forced investment, it would likely be quite regulated - limiting the stocks we can buy. Ok now who chooses which stocks are allowable? What if a congressman who has tons of stock X slips stock X into the list among other pork barrel items. Now millions of people buy stock X, its price soars, and that congressman sells his/her shares at an enormous profit. Sure it probably wouldn't happen, but the possibility of it occuring is horrifying and there would be nothing stopping it from occuring. Now the government COULD shape our retirement funds in a way to profit the congressmen and senators personally. Scary to think about.

 

[Cerebus451]

Originally posted by: nebula

Originally posted by: SirWoj
I believe you can go to the social security website and order a report which lists your contributions over the years. They probably have information about how that money is returned to you after retirement. I belive it's http://www.ssa.gov.[/q

They actually send me a yearly statement in the mail! I believe it says something like, "based on this information, you'll receive X amount at retirement", and shows how much you've made in the last several years. Kind of interesting but since I'm not close to retirement, it's kind of a waste of money to send it. My wife doesn't get one though.

Once you have paid into SS for 10 years, you start receiving the yearly statements. They tell you how much you have put into SS to date, as well as telling you what your monthly benefits will be if you continue to earn at your current level until you retire at certain ages.

I do agree that sending these statements 30 years before retirement is a bit wasteful.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Rob9874
I say offer the choice of privatization. Don't privatize all SS. But let us have a choice. I forget the actual figures, but if you invest your SS payments in a modest growth investment, you'd have so much more than what SS pays out. The reason Dems don't like it, it because it individualizes SS, and they like the communal approach. The "greater good" at the cost of what's good for me.

Right now people paying in are getting about a 5% return (depending on their age). Babies born today are expected to get 2%-3%. No it isn't as good as the stock market (assuming the stock market goes up from now on) but it isn't awful either.

I personally don't like it since it opens the possibility for huge corruption. Suppose the government had forced investment in the stock market. The first question I'd ask is what are we allowed to invest in? Since it is forced investment, it would likely be quite regulated - limiting the stocks we can buy. Ok now who chooses which stocks are allowable? What if a congressman who has tons of stock X slips stock X into the list among other pork barrel items. Now millions of people buy stock X, its price soars, and that congressman sells his/her shares at an enormous profit. Sure it probably wouldn't happen, but the possibility of it occuring is horrifying and there would be nothing stopping it from occuring. Now the government COULD shape our retirement funds in a way to profit the congressmen and senators personally. Scary to think about.

Well, the way to combat corruption is not by limiting the people's choices. "Let's keep them from investing, then we won't have to worry about corruption." what is this, Nazi Germany? USA = FREEDOM

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Rob9874
Well, the way to combat corruption is not by limiting the people's choices. "Let's keep them from investing, then we won't have to worry about corruption." what is this, Nazi Germany? USA = FREEDOM

That would be nice, but you know it would be regulated.

 

[rahvin]

By the time the boomers have retired enmass there will be enough gen-x and gen-y voters to overturn the senior vote and lower benefits. When it comes right down to raising taxes 50% or cutting benefits younger people will vote and boomers will lose. I can guarantee that once Gen-x is in control if the problem isn't fixed, the benefits will be reduced, the age to take benefits increased and the taxes won't go up.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: cliftonite
Is there a way to calculate how much you get back once you retire? How much would someone who has been taxed at 40,000 per year get back as opposed to someone who has made atleast 87k? Does the person who paid 2X the tax get more money? How many years do you have to work to get the full benefit?

No one can receive Social Security who has not paid into it for at least 10 years. After your 10th year, you will begin receiving annual benefit statements, stating how much you have paid in, and how much you will receive depending on at what age you start collecting.

Benefits ARE based off the amount you have paid in, up to a maximum. I disagree with OP's suggestion because (1) it is grossly unfair, and (2) Social Security revenue currently goes into the federal government's general fund and not into the trust fund as it should.

As for privatization, that argument is old and tired. It was a campaign lie for GW, nothing more. "Your" SS money only exists on paper. SS is a Ponzi scheme. The money you are paying into it right now goes directly to pay the people who are receiving benefits right now. It is not your 401(k), mutual fund, or IRA and never will be. There is no fund or monies for you to manage.

 

[nebula]

Originally posted by: Vic
The money you are paying into it right now goes directly to pay the people who are receiving benefits right now. It is not your 401(k), mutual fund, or IRA and never will be. There is no fund or monies for you to manage.

I've heard that too. But it isn't totally a hand to mouth deal is it?

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: Vic

As for privatization, that argument is old and tired. It was a campaign lie for GW, nothing more. "Your" SS money only exists on paper. SS is a Ponzi scheme. The money you are paying into it right now goes directly to pay the people who are receiving benefits right now. It is not your 401(k), mutual fund, or IRA and never will be. There is no fund or monies for you to manage.

I realize that, which is why I support privitization, which would individualize SS funds. My money would be just that, my money.

Here's a decent read Americans Have no Right to Social Security Benefits

Social Security privatization is the exit from this morass. Allowing Americans to invest their FICA taxes in personal retirement accounts would let them own their pension assets. What America needs is a retirement system based on property rights rather than promises.

 

[Ornery]

Making Social Security a Money Machine
Steve Forbes, 10.13.03

• "Saving social security" will be a sizzling campaign issue next year. Instead of trying to preserve FDR's brainchild, why not transform it into something that enriches the economy and significantly expands retirement benefits? The Bush Administration will probably propose, as it has in the past, allowing workers to allocate a small portion of their Social Security tax to their own personal savings accounts. Democrats will bellow that this will destroy the program, and they will advocate more taxes on the "rich."
  
  Since Republicans are going to get hammered for even considering changing the current on-its-way-to-going-broke system, they might as well be bold instead of tentative. They should advocate an exciting, whole-hog alternative to today's system, thereby making the reform effort worth the political heat...

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Social Security

• What is Social Security Choice?
  
• Why does Social Security need reform?
  
• What is the Social Security Trust Fund?
  
• What are the benefits of private retirement accounts?
  
• I don't know how to invest. How would I manage under a system of individual accounts?
  
• I have been paying Social Security taxes for years. Would I get anything back out of that?
  
• Social Security provides disability and survivors benefits. What would happen to them under a reformed system?
  
• What are the alternatives to individual accounts?
  
• Isn't the stock market too risky?
  
• Could the government invest the money instead?
  
• What would happen to me if the money in my account isn't enough to provide for my retirement?
  
• How would individual accounts affect women?
  
• I'm a full-time homemaker, what will happen to me at retirement? What would happen if I divorced?
  
• How would voluntary retirement accounts affect the middle class?
  
• I'm a low-wage worker. How would individual accounts affect me?
  
• I've heard that individual accounts would help minorities. Is that true?
  
• How would Social Security reform affect the economy?