A fun game in alternative history: If Arabs won in 1948...

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SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
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The restraint issue is FALSE. Israel went into Gaza becuase over 10 years of rockets, 11 people were killed. The incursion into Gaza cost another 11 lives. Gaza lost over 1400 lives in 3 weeks, not 10 years.

This means for every Israeli life they killed 66 Palestinian lives. This also means every day of the incursion Israel killed 66 Palestinians. Lets not forget Lebanon, where the numbers are similar.

The only problem I have with this is the fact Israel let the situation go on for 10 years before going into Gaza.

let me quote Ariel Sharon, “I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him.”

I wonder where have you taken this quote from. Do you have a link or any reference? Did he bow with his horns when he said that?

The argument of restraint is garbage.

As a well educated Palestinian, tell me, what did King Hussein do in September 1970 when the Palestinians began causing too much hassle?
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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Lets put it this way, when the US decides it needs advice on middle eastern issues, and there is not one voice in the US senate speaking for the arabs but there are many jewish experts that are speaking there is a problem!

There weren't so many Nazi advocates in the senate back in the day, too. It's only logical US would side with Israel, considering their mutual interests - and also considering Israel is the only democracy in the ME. Why wouldn't US support Israel? Is it only to appease Arab dictators?

Surely as a Palestinian who went through a successful immigration you understand the advantages of democracy - or do you oppose it? And if you support it, why do you think US shouldn't side with the democracy in the ME?
 
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SheriffA00

Member
Jul 21, 2009
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Why don't the Palestinians put up their weapons, declare an unconditional surrender and THEN ask the world to enforce negotiations on Israel?



Palestinians aren't protecting themselves, unless you can explain to me how suicide bombings protect the Palestinians, or shooting rockets from the Gaza strip after it was unconditionally transferred to Palestinians hands by the Israelis. Talk about kicking the bucket...
This is typical Palestinian behavior. When the Palestinian had the highest economical growth rate in the world, Arafat feared the public would settle for comfortable life and started the 2nd Intifada.



Israeli public again and again chose on leaders upon their promise of peace. Kadima party was elected with an overwhelming majority just to disengage from the Palestinians. I'd like to see a similar movement among the Palestinians.



Motorola sold a tiny fraction of its activities in Israel, and it had nothing to do with any boycott. Funny Palestinian sites declare it was done two days after the boycott - do you really think Motorola sold the division in two days? :D
So Motorola still has a huge activity in Israel, and so does Freescale (their semiconductor division), and so does Intel (just opened up another fab in Israel), and Google, and Cisco - you name it. US VCs rate Israel as 2nd in investments only to the Silicon Valley. The Israeli economy has never been stronger.
There was once a common notion that the Israeli economy needs peace. Well thanks to the Palestinians peace never came, but the Israeli economy never did better than now.



Yea, like previous Palestinians hoaxes done to make IDF look bad.

What kind of a country will your people set up? Will it be a democracy? Will it be different than any other Arab/Muslim country? Will it be peaceful towards Israel? We all know the answers, don't we.

I'm happy the Israeli public let go of the illusion of peace with the Palestinians, and with regret I'm seeing the Muslim world making sure the West knows their true face. I think the Palestinians are going to have 10 more tough years ahead of them. I wouldn't worry about Israel.

Why should the Palestinians surrender, what else is left for them? They will loose more. Why doesn't Israel say we want to start treating Palestinians as humans? The only reason the Palestinians are not negotiating at the moment is because Israel refuses to stop building settlements on land the world deems as illegal obtained. Obama and the UN has asked Israel to stop, why don't they? I'll tell you why, if you look at a map of Jerusalem most settlements are being built to encircle all of Jerusalem creating a net around what is left of the Palestinians that are living there. How blind do you think we are?

Lets also be clear that Israel broke the ceasefire in Nov of 08. It is also human nature to elect a government that will give you the most. Its unfortunate but true, if you are really blaming the Palestinian's for their voting then why doesn't Israel allow them to be educated and give them schooling so they know what is right and wrong.

The boycott is working, many companies have openly said they refuse to work with pro Zionist companies. I've read articles upon how Israel is becoming worried. Even jewish people are calling for a boycott
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/10/naomi-klein-boycott-israel

Also thank you for admitting that Israel does not want peace. This is the first step in honesty.

Let me be very honest now, Israel is not going anywhere because of their nuclear weapons. But the backing of apartheid policies are quickly fading internally and externally. Why are so many jewish people sympathizing with the Palestinians? Why did Fatah elect an Jew?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/23/uri-davis-interview-israel-fatah-palestine

That my friend is pure democracy, unlike Israel that continues to create new laws to ensure no arab Israeli ever gets into politics. What kind of democracy exists when a government openly says certain citizens based on racism are not allowed to be in government. Look internally to Israeli policy before you point the blame elsewhere.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Is it so out of the realm of reality that I am Palestinian. Does it hurt to know that Israel let one reach America via full scholarships plus stipends to reach the Phd level, become an American citizen, get invited to Clinton's inauguration, become a very successful real estate developer raise a family in america where the children are in medical school and engineers? How dare you say I'm not Palestinian?

The jews did in fact blow up buses, please read a book called the Israeli Lobby written by, yes you guessed it, a jew. He states that the jews were first acting as terrorist and they still are today. The difference is you call it state terrorism. Please get your facts from places other than Fox News and learn what the truth is.

If Israel did in fact restrain themselves then why did they use cluster bombs in lebanon in civlian areas that have a proven explosion rate of only 60%? That means the 10s of thousands of bombs released on Lebanon are laying around unexploded waiting for children to play with them and kill themselves.

Why did Israel use white phosphorus on the Palestinians? They do not cause any damage to rocket launch sites, but they will burn the flesh of a human right to the bone. If Israel did really show restraint then why is the most moral army in the world being being discussed in the UN for crimes against humanity. If they were truly showing restraint their name would not even be on the agenda?

You arguments are childish and you sound like another poster here named Lemon Law or Kylebisme......
Do you have any idea the restraint Israel has shown down through the years???
One act does not define lack of restraint.

I have read the book The Israeli Lobby. It was a highly controversial book on many points including the authors point of view. No where in that book did the suthor PROVE the Jews were blowing up buses and such.....
The point being there is no proof just conjecture based on one man`s opinion....sort of like reading somebody`s blog.....
You can dredge up the phosphorus argument and the cluster bomb argument yet those do not prove a lack of restraint!
The Palestinian people have over the years been their own worse enemy. They allow Hamas personnel to use homes to launch rockets, then when israel retaliates they claim theIisraeli`s are targeting civilians....
You know the sad fact is your arab bretheren do not give a shit about the Palestinians.
You being Palestinian must be shaking your head at the decisions your own people keep making....bad ones..over and over.

Your definition of Israeli restraint would be--- for the Israeli`s to bed over and grab their ankles and allow the ass raping to begin?????
 
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SheriffA00

Member
Jul 21, 2009
39
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There weren't so many Nazi advocates in the senate back in the day, too. It's only logical US would side with Israel, considering their mutual interests - and also considering Israel is the only democracy in the ME. Why wouldn't US support Israel? Is it only to appease Arab dictators?

Surely as a Palestinian who went through a successful immigration you understand the advantages of democracy - or do you oppose it? And if you support it, why do you think US shouldn't side with the democracy in the ME?

Fatah elected a jewish person! Israel continues to segregate and punish its Arab Israeli citizens. Who is the real democracy?
 

SheriffA00

Member
Jul 21, 2009
39
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You arguments are childish and you sound like another poster here named Lemon Law or Kylebisme......
Do you have any idea the restraint Israel has shown down through the years???
One act does not define lack of restraint.

I have read the book The israeli Lobby and if was a highly controversial book on many points including the authors point of view. No where in that book did the suthor PROVE the Jews were blowing up buses and such.....
The point being there is no proof just conjecture based on one mans opinion....sort of like reading somebody`s blog.....
You can dredge up the phosphorus argument and the cluster bomb argument yet those do not prove a lack of restraint!
The palestinian people have over the years been their own worse enemy. They allow hamas personnel to use homes to launch rockets, then when israel retaliates they claim theIisraeli`s are targeting civilians....
You know the sad fact is your arab bretheren do not give a shit about the Palestinians.
You being Palestinian must be shaking your head at the decisions your own people keep making....bad ones..over and over.

Your definition of Israeli restraint would be--- for the Israeli`s to bed over and grab their ankles and allow the ass raping to begin?????


That book has over 50 pages dedicated to references, look them up! Plane and simply why is there a divide on the jewish side if you are so right? Your backing in terms of numbers is becoming smaller and smaller everyday. I'm not here to call for the destruction of any country or race. I am here to share with everyone the truth. The problem in America is that the truth is not known, that is why every time a Palestinian speaks the lobby tries to shut them down. That is why anyone mentions Palestine in a sympathetic lite they are instantly labeled as anti Semitic. What are the jewish people so worried about if they are right. If the Palestinians are as they are painted to be then they should have no problem letting them speak out. Why was no media allowed in Gaza?

WHY IS ISRAEL AFRAID OF LETTING A PALESTINIAN SPEAK?

There is labeling and then their is the truth. In America I tell people I am palestinian and their faces turn sour because of the labeling. But while i was living in London their faces would be filled with affection and sympathy. The rest of the world knows the truth, now its America's turn to know the truth! If Israel knows they are right, then there should be no problem to letting them speak. Isn't that part of democracy? To hear both sides, to let people speak regardless of faith or political views?
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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Fatah elected a jewish person! Israel continues to segregate and punish its Arab Israeli citizens. Who is the real democracy?

Are you for real? Comparing the token pet Jew Fatah elected to dozens of Arab parliamentarians in Israel? Here's an Arab minister for you, not that it matters much: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3350893,00.html

Are there any Arabs - or Palestinians - anywhere that enjoy greater freedom than in Israel? Maybe in Syira? Maybe in Saudi Arabia?

Arab Israelis get a very fair deal, all considered.
Where would you rather live, under Hamas in Gaza, or under the Israelis?
 

SheriffA00

Member
Jul 21, 2009
39
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Are you for real? Comparing the token pet Jew Fatah elected to dozens of Arab parliamentarians in Israel? Here's an Arab minister for you, not that it matters much: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3350893,00.html

Are there any Arabs - or Palestinians - anywhere that enjoy greater freedom than in Israel? Maybe in Syira? Maybe in Saudi Arabia?

Arab Israelis get a very fair deal, all considered.
Where would you rather live, under Hamas in Gaza, or under the Israelis?

You asked about democracy and I gave you fact. Democracy is free elections. Meaning NO laws or regulations limit who can be elected based on race. Israel limits them, Fatah didn't! FACT!

The only reason I do not live in Palestine is because of the fear of being killed by the IDF for no reason at all other than being Palestinian. My father told me a story when he was in Palestine many years ago. And he was out after curfew because my little brother was sick, he was born premature, and he had to go to the hospital. On his way carrying my 3 year old brother the IDF stopped him and started to beat him with the butts of the M16s and let my brother fall to the dirt. During the beating his UNITED STATES passport fell out. They stopped immediately and took him and my brother to the hospital. That is why I don't live there!
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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You asked about democracy and I gave you fact. Democracy is free elections. Meaning NO laws or regulations limit who can be elected based on race. Israel limits them, Fatah didn't! FACT!

Pray tell, what regulations are you referring to?
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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Israel's own politicians admit it. That is an Israeli newspaper.
http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=35991

You were talking of laws and regulations, and implied you had facts. This is not a fact, nor does it speak of any laws or regulations. It's a piece about some politician in a radical left website. Where are those regulations and laws? Or is it the magnificent Eastern Imagination that strikes again here?

Come on, I believe you. Lay on the facts.
 

SheriffA00

Member
Jul 21, 2009
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SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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Yes, parties of extremists calling for Israel's destruction. Aren't parties outlawed in enlightened Europe, for example? I believe these parties appealed, and won (as far as I know).

Parliament spokesman Giora Pordes said the election committee voted overwhelmingly in favor of the motion, accusing the country's Arab parties of incitement, supporting terrorist groups and refusing to recognize Israel's right to exist. Arab lawmakers have traveled to some of Israel's staunchest enemies, including Lebanon and Syria.

Need I remind you that Arab Knesset members frequently travel to states that are on Israel's enemy list. Can you see a Syrian parliament member visiting Israel, taking pictures with the Jewish leadership and calling for the destruction of Syria? Because thats what Arab Knesset members did. This is democracy, for you. Albeit self destructive, but democracy nevertheless.

I was thinking you might have some really juicy official racist regulations. You don't. All you have are a bunch of Hizbullah supports that were dancing on roofs while Israel was bombarded with rockets and then tried to run for parliament.

And we haven't even talked about how well your democracy worked in Gaza. Or is it not Palestinian now.
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Funny, one would think after all the oppression Jews suffered under Hitler, they would gain an appreciation of universal Human rights for everyone. Instead, when it comes to the treatment of Palestinians, they act exactly like the Nazi party with the only exception that they don't actually gas them to death. But they sure confiscate their property and herd them into concentration camps.
 

SheriffA00

Member
Jul 21, 2009
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Yes, parties of extremists calling for Israel's destruction. Aren't parties outlawed in enlightened Europe, for example? I believe these parties appealed, and won (as far as I know).



Need I remind you that Arab Knesset members frequently travel to states that are on Israel's enemy list. Can you see a Syrian parliament member visiting Israel, taking pictures with the Jewish leadership and calling for the destruction of Syria? Because thats what Arab Knesset members did. This is democracy, for you. Albeit self destructive, but democracy nevertheless.

I was thinking you might have some really juicy official racist regulations. You don't. All you have are a bunch of Hizbullah supports that were dancing on roofs while Israel was bombarded with rockets and then tried to run for parliament.

And we haven't even talked about how well your democracy worked in Gaza. Or is it not Palestinian now.

You asked for proof and I gave it to you.

Every time proof is given Israel simply paints the enemy as a terrorist or anti Semite. Well i'm not afraid of your labels. At this point i'm sure those Israeli citizens are afraid either. That argument has been used so much it is diluting. Those people are Israeli citizens. In a democracy every vote is equal! Your argument is about democracy. Those are Israeli citizens and they are being discriminated.

In terms of traveling please tell me why certain Israeli officials are scared to travel freely? Let me help you out, there are arrest warrants that have been issued for crimes against humanity and ethnic cleansing. Lets not forget Sharon massacred about 2000 Palestinians in Jenin.

If you do not want to realize the reality of the proof then you are incapable of reason. This alone is proof of how Israel refuses to do anything but repeat history over and over and over again. Clearly it has not worked. Negotiation and compromise means both sides have to give something up, both sides. What else is left for the Palestinians to give up? Every move Israel makes is just another land grab attempt, for example the wall that was built deep into Palestinian land and the map of the settlements circling Jerusalem.

Now lets flip the story. When the twin towers went down their were Israeli's dancing in the streets excited that the US is going to side with them more often. When a pregnant Palestinian woman was killed by a sniper, they printed t-shirts. When you go through parts of Palestine you can see, "Arabs to the gas chambers" painted on buildings.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qUFDMUpk9jE/SaDOCCZXNeI/AAAAAAAAPr8/vLvsQ_71tyQ/s400/gas-the-arabs.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_V-BAHASKa...ZgYVZ54JYc/S220/Arabs+to+the+Gas+Chambers.jpg
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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Fatah elected a jewish person! Israel continues to segregate and punish its Arab Israeli citizens. Who is the real democracy?

lets be honest about this jewish person -- JERUSALEM (JTA) -- A former Israeli Jew was elected to the Palestinian Fatah Party's governing body.

Uri Davis, 66, a sociology professor at Al-Quds University in eastern Jerusalem, is the first Jew ever to become a member of the Revolutionary Council. Elections were held last week during Fatah's sixth party congress, its first in 20 years. The official list of winners of elections to the Revolutionary Council was published Saturday.

Davis was among more than 600 candidates for 80 open spots on the 128-member governing body. At least 70 of the seats were taken by new members, 20 come from Gaza, 11 are women and four are Christians.

Davis received Palestinian citizenship after waiving his Israeli citizenship in the 1980s in protest over Israel's policies in Gaza and the West Bank.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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That book has over 50 pages dedicated to references, look them up! Plane and simply why is there a divide on the jewish side if you are so right?

So far you have backed up none of your allegations with any prtoof other than to say to those who have not read the book read the book...
You cannot argue or discuss this subject without backing up YOUR allegations....
So iether provide links...or well...you know...

I for one also found the book to be highly controversial in many ways and evenb what you claim to be references....quite a few of those references IMO were lacking in credibility.......
 

SheriffA00

Member
Jul 21, 2009
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Davis received Palestinian citizenship after waiving his Israeli citizenship in the 1980s in protest over Israel's policies in Gaza and the West Bank.

Palestinian citizen that is Jewish is elected to Fatah. <-- NO SEGREGATION.

Certain Israeli citizens are barred from elections. <-- SEGREGATION.

I do not understand how you guys are arguing this.
 

SheriffA00

Member
Jul 21, 2009
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So far you have backed up none of your allegations with any prtoof other than to say to those who have not read the book read the book...
You cannot argue or discuss this subject without backing up YOUR allegations....
So iether provide links...or well...you know...

I for one also found the book to be highly controversial in many ways and evenb what you claim to be references....quite a few of those references IMO were lacking in credibility.......


IMO stands for "In My Opinion". Since you are claiming i am making an opinion, why does your opinion count?

Regardless of whether a book is controversial or not. The theory behind democracy is freedom. That includes freedom of speech. Your "IMO" to dismiss this book has no basis.

I provided links to articles stating arab israeli's were barred, and yet you guys deny this. Are you serious? Denial is not a proper defense. You can deny Israel killed 1400 Palestinians in Gaza and claim it was much fewer, or you can look at the body count on the floor and count for yourself.
 

SheriffA00

Member
Jul 21, 2009
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IMO stands for "In My Opinion". Since you are claiming i am making an opinion, why does your opinion count?

Regardless of whether a book is controversial or not. The theory behind democracy is freedom. That includes freedom of speech. Your "IMO" to dismiss this book has no basis.

I provided links to articles stating arab israeli's were barred, and yet you guys deny this. Are you serious? Denial is not a proper defense. You can deny Israel killed 1400 Palestinians in Gaza and claim it was much fewer, or you can look at the body count on the floor and count for yourself.

What about the Breaking the Silence movement?

It is a group of former IDF soldiers admitting what they have done is murder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37MFa7ZKQWo

The IDF itself is saying that they murder innocent Palestinians and yet your making the same argument and standing with your head held high!

I do not get it.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Lets also be clear that Israel broke the ceasefire in Nov of 08. It is also human nature to elect a government that will give you the most. Its unfortunate but true, if you are really blaming the Palestinian's for their voting then why doesn't Israel allow them to be educated and give them schooling so they know what is right and wrong.
As your buddy Kyle would say - what actually were the terms of the ceasefire?

No attacks from Gaza and no attacks by Israel?

The world interpreted the ceasefire conditions as such.
Conditionals exemptions were not announced.

Yet the people who state that Israel broke the ceasefire ignore the fact that attacks were initiated from Gaza, because Hamas states that they were not responsible. Then in the same breath, Hamas states that they will not attempt to stop attacks by others. (this was documented in the thread on the Cease Fire and predictions on how quickly/why it would be broken)
 
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SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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You asked for proof and I gave it to you.

Every time proof is given Israel simply paints the enemy as a terrorist or anti Semite. Well i'm not afraid of your labels. At this point i'm sure those Israeli citizens are afraid either. That argument has been used so much it is diluting. Those people are Israeli citizens. In a democracy every vote is equal! Your argument is about democracy. Those are Israeli citizens and they are being discriminated.

No one said you're antisemitic or a terrorist, merely uninformed.
Israel never denied anyone the vote for ethnic reasons. Some Israelis supported a movement that called for conditioning the right to vote on military duty, but that never happened. It's like the KKK talking about denying the right of Blacks to vote and me naming America "racist". I asked you to show me otherwise, and you didn't. You linked to two different articles by leftist publications, each dealing with another issue.

Arabs have full voting rights in Israel, full stop.

In terms of traveling please tell me why certain Israeli officials are scared to travel freely? Let me help you out, there are arrest warrants that have been issued for crimes against humanity and ethnic cleansing.

Because they are persecuted by extreme left and Palestinians, who use the naivety of some European country to harass Israelis.

Lets not forget Sharon massacred about 2000 Palestinians in Jenin.

Why don't you round it up to 20,000 and call it a day? :D

Wiki:
Reporting of casualty numbers during the invasion varied widely and fluctuated day to day. On April 10, the BBC reported that Israel estimated 150 Palestinians had died in Jenin, and Palestinians were saying the number was far higher.[51] That same day, Saeb Erekat, on a phone interview to CNN from Jericho, estimated that there were a total of 500 Palestinians killed during Operation Defensive Shield, this figure also including fatalities outside of the Jenin camp, in other areas of the West Bank.[52] On April 11, Ben Wedeman of CNN reported that Palestinians were reporting 500 dead, while international relief agencies were saying possibly as many as 200; he noted that his efforts to independently verify the claims had so far come to naught since people were being prevented from entering the camp by Israeli soldiers.[53]

On April 12, Brigadier-General Ron Kitri said on Israeli Army Radio that there are apparently hundreds of Palestinians killed in Jenin. He later retracted this statement.[54] Secretary-General of the Palestinian Authority, Ahmed Abdel Rahman, said that thousands of Palestinians had been killed and buried in mass graves, or lay under houses destroyed in Jenin and Nablus.[55] On April 13, Palestinian Information Minister, Yasser Abed Rabbo, accused Israel of digging mass graves for 900 Palestinians in the camp.[56] On April 14, Ha'aretz reported that the exact number of Palestinian dead was still unknown, but that the IDF placed the toll between 100 and 200.[31] On the same day, Israel Insider reported that the IDF gave a final figure of 45 casualties.[57] On April 18, Zalman Shoval, adviser to Sharon, said that only about 65 bodies had been recovered, five of them civilians.[36] On April 30, Qadoura Mousa, director of the Fatah for the northern West Bank, said the number of dead was fifty-six.[58]

Based on figures provided by the Jenin hospital and the IDF, the UN report placed the death toll at 23 Israeli soldiers, noting that only 52 Palestinian deaths could be confirmed, half of whom were thought to be civilians.[59] In 2004, Haaretz journalists Amos Harel and Avi Isacharoff wrote that 23 Israelis had died and 52 had been wounded; Palestinian casualties included 53 dead, hundreds wounded and about 200 captured.[1] According to retired IDF General Shlomo Gazit, the death toll was 55 Palestinians and 33 Israels.[60] Israeli officials estimated that of the 52 dead, 38 had been armed men, while 14 were civilians.[61]

...

Subsequent investigations and reports by the United Nations, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Time Magazine, and the BBC all concluded there was no massacre of civilians, with estimated death tolls of 46-55 people among reports by the IDF, the Jenin office of the United Nations, and the Jenin Hospital.[69] A team of four Palestinian-appointed investigators reporting to Fatah numbered total casualties of 56,[58] as disclosed by Kadoura Mousa Kadoura, the director of Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement for the northern West Bank.

The UN report to the Secretary General noted "Palestinians had claimed that between 400 and 500 people had been killed, fighters and civilians together. They had also claimed a number of summary executions and the transfer of corpses to an unknown place outside the city of Jenin. The number of Palestinian fatalities, on the basis of bodies recovered to date, in Jenin and the refugee camp in this military operation can be estimated at around 55."[2] While noting the number of civilian deaths might rise as rubble was cleared, the report continued, "nevertheless, the most recent estimates by UNRWA and ICRC show that the number of missing people is constantly declining as the IDF releases Palestinians from detention."[2] Human Rights Watch completed its report on Jenin in early May, stating "there was no massacre," but accusing the IDF of war crimes,[70] and Amnesty International's report concluded "No matter whose figures one accepts, "there was no massacre."[3] Amnesty's report specifically observed that "after the IDF temporarily withdrew from Jenin refugee camp on 17 April, UNRWA set up teams to use the census lists to account for all the Palestinians (some 14,000) believed to be resident of the camp on 3 April 2002. Within five weeks all but one of the residents was accounted for.&#8221;[71] A BBC report later noted, "Palestinian authorities made unsubstantiated claims of a wide-scale massacre,"[8] and a reporter for the Observer opined that what happened in Jenin was not a massacre.[72]


What else is left for the Palestinians to give up?

Terrorism, rockets, education to hatred [...]

Every move Israel makes is just another land grab attempt, for example the wall that was built deep into Palestinian land and the map of the settlements circling Jerusalem.

Yes, was the Gaza disengagement a land grab attempt too?

Now lets flip the story. When the twin towers went down their were Israeli's dancing in the streets excited that the US is going to side with them more often.

Another product of your sick mind? Another sorry attempt of turning reality on its head? The only ones that were documented dancing on rooftops were Palestinians. Do you have a youtube video or something similar that shows Israelis happy following this? Are you going to link me to another Huffington post article?

When a pregnant Palestinian woman was killed by a sniper, they printed t-shirts. When you go through parts of Palestine you can see, "Arabs to the gas chambers" painted on buildings.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qUFDMUpk9jE/SaDOCCZXNeI/AAAAAAAAPr8/vLvsQ_71tyQ/s400/gas-the-arabs.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_V-BAHASKa...ZgYVZ54JYc/S220/Arabs+to+the+Gas+Chambers.jpg


You need to learn to distinguish between the actions of single extremists and Israel as a nation. As I said, I'm sure there are buildings in the USA where someone wrote Arabs - or Jews - to the gas chamber.
You probably never learned how to make this distinction if you grew up with Palestinians, as the state entity itself is an extremist organization by any Western standard.

Nevertheless, I have to congratulate you as being the boldest liar I've encountered here for quite some time. At least the resident leftist dorm dwellers try to be careful with what they present, you're just so out there. Congratulations, sir. You're making yourself and your cause a joke.
I wonder how highly people think of the Palestinians after posts like yours ;)
 

SheriffA00

Member
Jul 21, 2009
39
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As your buddy Kyle would say - what actually were the terms of the ceasefire?

No attacks from Gaza and no attacks by Israel?

The world interpreted the ceasefire conditions as such.
Conditionals exemptions were not announced.

Yet the people who state that Israel broke the ceasefire ignore the fact that acctacks were initiated from Gaza because Hamas states tahttheywere notresponsible. Then in thesame breath, Hamas states that they will not attempt to stop attacks by others.

So then whats the solution? Why not give them a better option than Hamas? Why doesn't Israel fund a group that will allow it to give more to its citizens? The truth is they did try it, Israel funded Hamas in the 70s to counter the PLO. Just like the US funded alqueda in the 70s.

What can Hamas do to stop rockets when it barely has water, electricity, or band aids? It can't do anything. It sucks but the reality is Israel is giving the average palestinian no future or hope. So they are going to elect Hamas who will at least give them hope. Now Israel is tying the hands of Hamas. So if Hamas is the government in Gaza and its hands are tied, how is it supposed to accomplish anything?

As long as Palestinians are under siege their will be resistance. As long as anyone is under siege there will be resistance.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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Sure, as if Israeli police don't shoot at Jews who protest against the persecution of Palestinians just like anyone else, this being one notable example.


Rather, it was Christians which used the wall as a trash dump, and Muslims who cleaned it up.

Unlike you, who probably have never been to Israel, never have seen the problems first hand, never have heard stories first hand, I have. I have spoken (actually the guy who guided us through Israel) about how he fought in many of the wars, including the story of when he kissed the wall "full of piss and shit" that is an exact quote. Now he emphasized that fact specifically for a reason.

By the way, under arab rule, could jews go to the western wall? no. can today arabs go to the western wall? yes.

Nonsense, the Cave of the Patriarchs has been under Israel occupation since Israel invaded the West Bank in 1967, and Palestinians are the ones who have limited access to it due to the restrictions of movement Israel imposes on them. On the other hand, Jews can visit it whenever they like, here is the official Israeli website for it which provides visitor information.


Back in 1994, the Zionist terrorist Baruch Goldstein was able to walk freely into the Cave of the Patriarchs and open fire to massacre 39 Palestinians and wound 125 more, and Israel has incressed security mesures there since then.

If you read my comments it does not say it was blocked off. it is simply a bad place to be. Just like a billionaire with a bugatti wont drive in a ghetto and stop in the middle and say "Hey people, look at me, im rich you are not" He would probably get beaten up or even killed.

Once again, first hand experience.


An absurd claim considering the fact that Zionist militias and terrorist groups were ethnically cleansing across both sides of the UN partition plan for months before those Arab nations attacked.


That bullshit Islamaphobic propaganda was thoroughly refuted last time you posted it.

You never refuted it. that is a lie. Instead of accepting the fact that the Islamic religion is nuts, you want to call the report Islamaphobic propaganda. that isnt even a Jewish or israeli news station. it is CBS. Plenty of other videos similar to that one showing REAL NUMBERS and REAL FACTS. Learn to deal with the truth



I've seen similar comments from people in regard to Judaism, and it's ignorant fucking bigot either way.

Once again, diverting from the main point. its not bigotted at all. All of the violence on a large scale today has to do with the Islamic religion. (minus NK, even though there isnt violence at the present time) You are simply denying it.


Sure, it's like like there are any Jewish extemists who call any Jew who opposes Zionism a self-hater.

how is that at all have to deal with the fact that Islam comes in one way of practice. Once again diverting.While that could be true, it doesnt change the fact that the Islamic religion can only be practiced as an extremist. There are bad jews out there, just as there are bad muslims, christians, buddists, etc. PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE.

Am I to take this to suggest you feel terrorised by the facts I refute your bigoted propaganda with you with? How do you figure Israel should "get to" me exactly?


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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Sammy advises us , " You need to learn to distinguish between the actions of single extremists and Israel as a nation."

Yes every nation has its extremists, but its the Nazi like policies of the Israeli government that we are complaining about.