A fine mess that MI6, CIA, and Brits/American Admin got us into.

[iGas]

Libya: Gaddafi regime's US-UK spy links revealed

US and UK spy agencies built close ties with their Libyan counterparts during the so-called War on Terror, according to documents discovered at the office of Col Gaddafi's former spy chief.

The papers suggest the CIA abducted several suspected militants from 2002 to 2004 and handed them to Tripoli.

The UK's MI6 also apparently gave the Gaddafi regime details of dissidents...

Human Rights Watch accused the CIA of condoning torture.

"It wasn't just abducting suspected Islamic militants and handing them over to the Libyan intelligence," said Peter Bouckaert of HRW.

"The CIA also sent the questions they wanted Libyan intelligence to ask and, from the files, it's very clear they were present in some of the interrogations themselves," he said.

The papers outline the rendition of several suspects, including one that Human Rights Watch has identified as Abdel Hakim Belhaj, known in the documents as Abdullah al-Sadiq, who is now the military commander of the anti-Gaddafi forces in Tripoli...

UK officials were apparently keen for Tony Blair to meet Col Gaddafi in a tent

Libya rebel commander contends was tortured, rendered by CIA

The top Libyan rebel military commander in Tripoli, Abdel Hakim Belhaj, dropped something of a bombshell in an interview with the New York Times yesterday: In 2004, he said, two CIA agents tortured him in Thailand and then "rendered" him to Libya. From that point on, he maintains, he was held in solitary confinement for the next six years.
"Yes, [Belhaj] said, he was detained by Malaysian officials in 2004 on arrival at the Kuala Lumpur airport, where he was subjected to extraordinary rendition on behalf of the United States, and sent to Thailand," the New York Times' Rod Norland writes. "In Bangkok, Mr. Belhaj said, he was tortured for a few days by two people he said were CIA agents, and then, worse, they repatriated him to Libya, where he was thrown into solitary confinement for six years."
Now, Belhaj heads the Libyan rebels' military committee for restoring order in the capital of Tripoli...

Libyan rebel Tripoli military commander Abdel Hakim Belhaj in Tripoli Aug. 31, 2011. (Francois Mori/AP)

Will Libya be woo by France, Brits, and American after this fiasco?

We just replaced a dictator with an ex leader of Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which was deemed a terror group by the United States.

 

[gevorg]

Gaddafi is done and out of control so we're replacing him with a better puppet, just like we did with Mubarak. Might makes right.

 

[Rainsford]

Don't worry, working with corrupt dictators for short term goals has never bit us in the ass before...

 

[bfdd]

lolololols, shit i've been saying for weeks and weeks now. whatever though, no one fucking will pay attention. WE GOT RID OF THE BIG BAD DICTATOR! morons.

 

[SAWYER]

I just made a thread asking why exactly the rebels were so great. Not many people wanted to address the question.

 

[Lemon law]

Gadahifi was a human Turd and a total monster who belongs at the Hague as an international war criminal.

As for the Rebels, they are a diverse group. We are hoping the Rebels will be better because its almost certain they can't be worse.

According to the Brits, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and the whole motley crew were terrorists too. Sometimes the world guesses right, sometimes we do worse, no crystal balls in the mess.

 

[Nebor]

It's a good thing I keep all the CIA recruiter emails I get to my .army.mil email address, those guys get to do all the cool stuff.

 

[Lemon law]

It's a good thing I keep all the CIA recruiter emails I get to my .army.mil email address, those guys get to do all the cool stuff.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As Nebor admits all those cool guys know is how to recruit idiots to loot the US treasury while delivering the results of a turd.

Nebor, I fail to understand you in anyway, why dedicate your life to certain failure?

 

[Nebor]

Nebor, I fail to understand you in anyway, why dedicate your life to certain failure?

My commute is significantly shorter than when I worked for the private sector.

 

[SamurAchzar]

We just replaced a dictator with an ex leader of Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which was deemed a terror group by the United States.

Anyone who romanticized the revolts in the Arab world and thought that the people who would be left standing in leadership are the Girl Scouts is a fucking idiot. Obviously, those who will rule are the one with the guns.

We will miss Qadaffi and Mubarak. Mark my words.

 

[Lemon law]

Anyone who romanticized the revolts in the Arab world and thought that the people who would be left standing in leadership are the Girl Scouts is a fucking idiot. Obviously, those who will rule are the one with the guns.

We will miss Qadaffi and Mubarak. Mark my words.

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Translation, only Israel will miss Mubarak and Qadaffi, the rest of the world says good riddance to bad rubbish. As The rest of the mid-east transitions towards democracy and Israel gets increasing isolated.

Not a good sign for Israel, who wants to feel, anything good for its neighbors is bad for Israel. As various Arab countries get rid of their dictators that looted and delimited their economies. Especially Egypt is now in the position to have great national economic growth.

 

[Craig234]

I just made a thread asking why exactly the rebels were so great. Not many people wanted to address the question.

Right-wing creeps could care less about the rights of the people to democracy; their only concern is 'which tyrant can we put in place that's best for us'.

 

[cubby1223]

Right-wing creeps could care less about the rights of the people to democracy; their only concern is 'which tyrant can we put in place that's best for us'.

And you are any better? You respect people's right to choose only so far as they make all the same choices you do.

I am curious, though, which tyrant has who said he wants in place in these countries? You make the claim, would like to know the truth with Egypt & Libya.

Or, to the counter, what is *your* plan to transition these countries to an honest democracy? And remember, the people of these countries are humans who possess free will, you only have influence over a small percentage of the citizens and direct control over but a handful. Or do you have confidence that left to their own skills these countries can and will form an honest democracy to your standards?

Let's say Libya forms an honest Democracy and elects *gasp* all Republicans! Would you respect the rights of the people then?

 

[Double Trouble]

We will miss Qadaffi and Mubarak. Mark my words.

I think it's highly likely that just as happened when Saddam was taken out of the picture, we will find that the tyrant used fear, force and torture to stay in power, but also to keep the islamo-crazies in check. When there's no strongman to keep them in check, there could be major trouble.

Lets hope that does not happen.

 

[a777pilot]

muslim brotherhood....wins.

freedom....what a joke.

 

[iGas]

Anyone who romanticized the revolts in the Arab world and thought that the people who would be left standing in leadership are the Girl Scouts is a fucking idiot. Obviously, those who will rule are the one with the guns.

We will miss Qadaffi and Mubarak. Mark my words.

I'm not going to miss any of the dictator or the new puppets that are put in place, but perhaps with a stroke of a pen the US will remove the Israelis Zionist apathy party as well that is causing much more grieve than they are worth.

 

[iGas]

muslim brotherhood....wins.

freedom....what a joke.

They are being put in place by your American Admin, and the same Admin is supporting the Israel apathy state.

 

[a777pilot]

They are being put in place by your American Admin, and the same Admin is supporting the Israel apathy state.

They are being put in place by your American Admin...

Really? No shit? I would never have guessed.

 

[Nebor]

I'm not going to miss any of the dictator or the new puppets that are put in place, but perhaps with a stroke of a pen the US will remove the Israelis Zionist apathy party as well that is causing much more grieve than they are worth.

It's not just a stroke of a pen, it took a 6 month bombing campaign to oust Gaddafi. Are you proposing similar action against Israel? It'd actually be a lot easier since Israel is so much smaller than Libya. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

 

[Lemon law]

It's not just a stroke of a pen, it took a 6 month bombing campaign to oust Gaddafi. Are you proposing similar action against Israel? It'd actually be a lot easier since Israel is so much smaller than Libya. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

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Pardon me Nebor, if I comment that your thinking is just so military and thus limited. Even though I agree, maybe from a purely military standpoint, Israel being a postage stamp sized country has certain military disadvantages. But wait, we forget Israel has nukes, almost ruling out military options from pea brain military thinkers. Or should we say stinking thinkers.

But if the USA wants to change Israeli foreign policy, all we would have to do is quit giving Israel military aid and vetoing all anti-Israeli baggage in the UN. And if we in the USA want to guarantee Israeli security in such a future possible two State solution, we can use the same non Violent diplomacy to encourage future Arab and Israeli States to co-operation.

Carter basically did that with Egypt and Israel, but did the job so poorly, it did not result in any progress, and damaging both sides in the process.

 

[Nebor]

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Pardon me Nebor, if I comment that your thinking is just so military and thus limited. Even though I agree, maybe from a purely military standpoint, Israel being a postage stamp sized country has certain military disadvantages. But wait, we forget Israel has nukes, almost ruling out military options from pea brain military thinkers. Or should we say stinking thinkers.

But if the USA wants to change Israeli foreign policy, all we would have to do is quit giving Israel military aid and vetoing all anti-Israeli baggage in the UN. And if we in the USA want to guarantee Israeli security in such a future possible two State solution, we can use the same non Violent diplomacy to encourage future Arab and Israeli States to co-operation.

Carter basically did that with Egypt and Israel, but did the job so poorly, it did not result in any progress, and damaging both sides in the process.

Soft sanctions would work worse on Israel than they did on Iraq.

 

[SAWYER]

http://news.yahoo.com/libyan-rebels-round-black-africans-130723394.html

 

[Doppel]

Gadahifi was a human Turd and a total monster who belongs at the Hague as an international war criminal.

As for the Rebels, they are a diverse group. We are hoping the Rebels will be better because its almost certain they can't be worse.

According to the Brits, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and the whole motley crew were terrorists too. Sometimes the world guesses right, sometimes we do worse, no crystal balls in the mess.

Agree with this totally.

 

[Lemon law]

Soft sanctions would work worse on Israel than they did on Iraq.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong again Nebor, at this point in time, Israel has only the USA to count on to bail their ass out. As it is, without the US to veto a Palestinian State, Palestinian Statehood as of 9/20/2011 is slam dunk.

Then Israel can try to annex the disputed territories and face a world wide economic embargo.

As it is, as the US loses economic power, Israel is getting to be an very expensive US liability without any benefit. Already many US democrats, Republicans, and independents are questioning why we waste some 60 billion in direct and indirect economic aid to Israel that buys us nothing but Israeli insults.

But right now, due to intra party Us stupidity and AIPAC , what ever Obama does will be opposed by Republicans. But if Obama loses in 2012, long odds the GOP will drop Israel like a hot Potato. At the same time international terrorism will make Israel ground zero as terrorist funding increases along with the technology. As the USA gets forced out of Iraq and Afghanistan while Arabs use oil as a weapon against the USA.

Faced with that, do you really think the Israeli stinking of Bozo Netanyuhu and his ilk will even last in Israel. Most people in Israel realize they are already playing a dead end game. As both Israel and the USA find there are giant limitations with limited military thinking.

 

[Nebor]

I think we know better than to cut off aid to Israel, unless we want another helping of USS Liberty style ass kickin'.