A few Vista Beta 1 impressions

[ElFenix]

i mount drives inside folders in windows without problem. doesn't mess up drive letters. all my media is in e:\media with one drive for music and one drive for movies.

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: archcommus
Uhh.................NO. That's really the only word I can think of in reply to your post.

Quite frankly, digging through folders to find stuff is only a pain for those who have no friggin' idea how to organize crap. If you take some time to put things in their place, it's really quite simple. I can get to any requested document of mine within four folder clicks, and if I want to shorten that, a shortcut will do nicely. I use the search feature maybe once a month to find a rare program-related file or something.

I HATE the idea of not knowing what's on my computer, and that's exactly what search-oriented environments promote. "Just go ahead and toss your crap wherever you want, it doesn't matter, you can always find it with a search!" Then, months later, you see you're using over 100 GB of space and can't even begin to imagine what you're filling all that up with. Pretty hard to figure out when your C: drive is a huge catastrophe.

For those who can't organize, use your search and your Virtual Folders, that's fine with me. For those who can, like myself, there better be options in place to do things normally.

And a final question for those who love the search: If you rely on it so much to find your stuff, how do you efficiently back up ANYTHING? Just Ghost your whole drive and not worry about it?

Even for highly organized people, a good metadata search is invaluable. I think you're (partly) missing the point.

I won't be ignorant and deny that there are uses for it I have not utilized. But can you give me some examples?

Filtering music by genres or ratings in the shell instead of in a media player (for those freaks who insist on doing everything in explorer ).
Finding music with a particular guest artist.
Finding documents with particular authors.
Finding documents with certain keywords within them.
Finding photos taken on a particular date.
etc

Those are examples of what a normal home user would use it for. Now just think of the mess that shared directories at work can become. Adding indexed searching of network shares is huge.

EDIT:
The nitty-gritty of it all is that once you start organizing your media/files one way, you're stuck with it unless you want to do a lot of copy/pasting and renaming. Searching and filtering by metadata will save you a lot of future headaches. You can keep your folder hierarchy in a way that makes sense to you, but still be able to find those media/files that won't quite fit in one folder or another, or really belong in 2 (or 200).

i know what you are saying but for the average comp user Ituned and a Iphoto type piogram take care of pic sand music searching, 99% of the documents on most comps are authored by that comp user, so IDK how that gonna help people, keywords could be usefull, however im failing to see why currently

Like the other poster said I can fine anything on my HDD in 3 clicks of the mouse, i dont see how a search woudl help me at all

Exactly, I definitely see the benefits of searching (and ESPECIALLY Virtual Folders) for people who have stuff ALL OVER their HDD (most people). But for someone like me, or Anubis, and probably many other posters here, I can find everything I have easily. A search would be a nice complement at times but rarely used I think.

So, werk, yes - searching may be the future. And that is fine if most people in the world search to find everything, even if I still find it myself. But something like WinFS - is that going to take away MY ability to organize things on the HDD the way I want? Can someone explain what using a computer with WinFS would be like exactly?

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: blurredvision
How do you set the windows to be transparent? It wasn't enabled by default I see, and I don't feel like searching around .

I tried TweakVista .60 and it still doesn't work on my Intel Integrated Graphics (Extreme Graphics II) in my laptop. I know that it isn't the fanciest graphics card in the world, but it should be able to support some stupid transparency effects.

I believes it WGF1.0 support that you need. Which isnt even finalized as far as i know.

I think its pretty much limited to DX9b and higher cards. (i know its a completely seperate standard, but that seems to be where the cards are falling in line).

According to the winsupersite Beta review, he says the transparency effects are enabled by default if you have a good enough video card. I just assumed my 6800GT was "good enough".

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: n7

Originally posted by: TriStar
Why would anybody care?

No one has to.

I'm just bored waiting for the install to finish.

Run along now & play with yourself...i mean with your toys

Thanks for the heads up.

Always interesting imo to reads peoples views on stuff like this :thumbsup:

Koing

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: blurredvision
How do you set the windows to be transparent? It wasn't enabled by default I see, and I don't feel like searching around .

I tried TweakVista .60 and it still doesn't work on my Intel Integrated Graphics (Extreme Graphics II) in my laptop. I know that it isn't the fanciest graphics card in the world, but it should be able to support some stupid transparency effects.

I believes it WGF1.0 support that you need. Which isnt even finalized as far as i know.

I think its pretty much limited to DX9b and higher cards. (i know its a completely seperate standard, but that seems to be where the cards are falling in line).

According to the winsupersite Beta review, he says the transparency effects are enabled by default if you have a good enough video card. I just assumed my 6800GT was "good enough".

I would certainly hope so, its not like we are talking high end effects here

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: Anubis
i know what you are saying but for the average comp user Ituned and a Iphoto type piogram take care of pic sand music searching, 99% of the documents on most comps are authored by that comp user, so IDK how that gonna help people, keywords could be usefull, however im failing to see why currently

Like the other poster said I can fine anything on my HDD in 3 clicks of the mouse, i dont see how a search woudl help me at all

When was the last time you went to a library and used the card catalogue? Or went to amazon or a similar site and drilled down through the category listings to find a particular item? Face it, indexed searching, and in the future, fully relational database filesystems are the way things are going. It just makes sense.

I wouldn't expect anything else from you though, you don't seem to like anything "new."

its not that I dont like the idea, i can see its use for specific applications, Like the Lib and huge websites that sell things like Amazon, however for the average desktop user i just dont think it is needed

IMO its gonna be one of those things that they say everyone will need, however few will use

 

[Locut0s]

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: archcommus
Uhh.................NO. That's really the only word I can think of in reply to your post.

Quite frankly, digging through folders to find stuff is only a pain for those who have no friggin' idea how to organize crap. If you take some time to put things in their place, it's really quite simple. I can get to any requested document of mine within four folder clicks, and if I want to shorten that, a shortcut will do nicely. I use the search feature maybe once a month to find a rare program-related file or something.

I HATE the idea of not knowing what's on my computer, and that's exactly what search-oriented environments promote. "Just go ahead and toss your crap wherever you want, it doesn't matter, you can always find it with a search!" Then, months later, you see you're using over 100 GB of space and can't even begin to imagine what you're filling all that up with. Pretty hard to figure out when your C: drive is a huge catastrophe.

For those who can't organize, use your search and your Virtual Folders, that's fine with me. For those who can, like myself, there better be options in place to do things normally.

And a final question for those who love the search: If you rely on it so much to find your stuff, how do you efficiently back up ANYTHING? Just Ghost your whole drive and not worry about it?

Even for highly organized people, a good metadata search is invaluable. I think you're (partly) missing the point.

I won't be ignorant and deny that there are uses for it I have not utilized. But can you give me some examples?

Filtering music by genres or ratings in the shell instead of in a media player (for those freaks who insist on doing everything in explorer ).
Finding music with a particular guest artist.
Finding documents with particular authors.
Finding documents with certain keywords within them.
Finding photos taken on a particular date.
etc

Those are examples of what a normal home user would use it for. Now just think of the mess that shared directories at work can become. Adding indexed searching of network shares is huge.

EDIT:
The nitty-gritty of it all is that once you start organizing your media/files one way, you're stuck with it unless you want to do a lot of copy/pasting and renaming. Searching and filtering by metadata will save you a lot of future headaches. You can keep your folder hierarchy in a way that makes sense to you, but still be able to find those media/files that won't quite fit in one folder or another, or really belong in 2 (or 200).

i know what you are saying but for the average comp user Ituned and a Iphoto type piogram take care of pic sand music searching, 99% of the documents on most comps are authored by that comp user, so IDK how that gonna help people, keywords could be usefull, however im failing to see why currently

Like the other poster said I can fine anything on my HDD in 3 clicks of the mouse, i dont see how a search woudl help me at all

Exactly, I definitely see the benefits of searching (and ESPECIALLY Virtual Folders) for people who have stuff ALL OVER their HDD (most people). But for someone like me, or Anubis, and probably many other posters here, I can find everything I have easily. A search would be a nice complement at times but rarely used I think.

So, werk, yes - searching may be the future. And that is fine if most people in the world search to find everything, even if I still find it myself. But something like WinFS - is that going to take away MY ability to organize things on the HDD the way I want? Can someone explain what using a computer with WinFS would be like exactly?

You don't have to worry to much about WinFS at the moment as it won't even be released with vista. MS claims they still plan on adding it in a future service pack. When Vista launches you won't have to worry about not being able to organize your files the way you want. As I understand it, aside from improved search capabilities, virtual folders, and the ability to handle meta data better the file system will basically be the same as in XP.

 

[archcommus]

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: archcommus

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: archcommus
Uhh.................NO. That's really the only word I can think of in reply to your post.

Quite frankly, digging through folders to find stuff is only a pain for those who have no friggin' idea how to organize crap. If you take some time to put things in their place, it's really quite simple. I can get to any requested document of mine within four folder clicks, and if I want to shorten that, a shortcut will do nicely. I use the search feature maybe once a month to find a rare program-related file or something.

I HATE the idea of not knowing what's on my computer, and that's exactly what search-oriented environments promote. "Just go ahead and toss your crap wherever you want, it doesn't matter, you can always find it with a search!" Then, months later, you see you're using over 100 GB of space and can't even begin to imagine what you're filling all that up with. Pretty hard to figure out when your C: drive is a huge catastrophe.

For those who can't organize, use your search and your Virtual Folders, that's fine with me. For those who can, like myself, there better be options in place to do things normally.

And a final question for those who love the search: If you rely on it so much to find your stuff, how do you efficiently back up ANYTHING? Just Ghost your whole drive and not worry about it?

Even for highly organized people, a good metadata search is invaluable. I think you're (partly) missing the point.

I won't be ignorant and deny that there are uses for it I have not utilized. But can you give me some examples?

Filtering music by genres or ratings in the shell instead of in a media player (for those freaks who insist on doing everything in explorer ).
Finding music with a particular guest artist.
Finding documents with particular authors.
Finding documents with certain keywords within them.
Finding photos taken on a particular date.
etc

Those are examples of what a normal home user would use it for. Now just think of the mess that shared directories at work can become. Adding indexed searching of network shares is huge.

EDIT:
The nitty-gritty of it all is that once you start organizing your media/files one way, you're stuck with it unless you want to do a lot of copy/pasting and renaming. Searching and filtering by metadata will save you a lot of future headaches. You can keep your folder hierarchy in a way that makes sense to you, but still be able to find those media/files that won't quite fit in one folder or another, or really belong in 2 (or 200).

i know what you are saying but for the average comp user Ituned and a Iphoto type piogram take care of pic sand music searching, 99% of the documents on most comps are authored by that comp user, so IDK how that gonna help people, keywords could be usefull, however im failing to see why currently

Like the other poster said I can fine anything on my HDD in 3 clicks of the mouse, i dont see how a search woudl help me at all

Exactly, I definitely see the benefits of searching (and ESPECIALLY Virtual Folders) for people who have stuff ALL OVER their HDD (most people). But for someone like me, or Anubis, and probably many other posters here, I can find everything I have easily. A search would be a nice complement at times but rarely used I think.

So, werk, yes - searching may be the future. And that is fine if most people in the world search to find everything, even if I still find it myself. But something like WinFS - is that going to take away MY ability to organize things on the HDD the way I want? Can someone explain what using a computer with WinFS would be like exactly?

You don't have to worry to much about WinFS at the moment as it won't even be released with vista. MS claims they still plan on adding it in a future service pack. When Vista launches you won't have to worry about not being able to organize your files the way you want. As I understand it, aside from improved search capabilities, virtual folders, and the ability to handle meta data better the file system will basically be the same as in XP.

Yes, but...when WinFS does debut, how will that change basic file storage? I am still unclear on this.

 

[0roo0roo]

probablywon't. but it will help with access when we have terabyte hd's with decades of pictures and documents from ur life eventually...

 

[remagavon]

Yeah I highly doubt even if they do release WinFS in a service pack it'll change much. I've never seen a major overhaul with any service pack from microsoft. XP SP2 was a good try, but it's basically the same.

 

[CFster]

I got a BSOD on my first reboot during install.

Wonder if it has something to do with my SATA drives.

Back to the drawing board...

 

[archcommus]

Any sources besides a torrent? PM please...

 

[nsafreak]

You know I wonder if Microsoft has ever contemplated making these beta tests open to the public instead of just MSDN subscribers and a few other folks. I'd think they'd get a lot more data on what causes problems hardware/software wise to improve the operating system before release.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: nsafreak
You know I wonder if Microsoft has ever contemplated making these beta tests open to the public instead of just MSDN subscribers and a few other folks. I'd think they'd get a lot more data on what causes problems hardware/software wise to improve the operating system before release.

The general public isn't smart enough to realize it's just a beta, and isn't necessarily supposed to work right. It would cause more harm than good I'd imagine. Hopefully, those MSDN subscribers and everyone else in the know enough to download a copy know better than to base their opinion on a beta version. MS knows that they need to have a fully functioning version of Vista before putting it into mom and pop's hands.

 

[NFS4]

Well, found the answer to my LDDM question over at Neowin:

"What you need to run Aero Glass is : a 128MB PS 2.0 Capable Video Card (Everything from a 5200/9500 on up)"

 

[NetGuySC]

Just loaded Vista and my first impression is my amazement of all the drivers that it loaded, like the vid card, usb, most motherboard driver, ethernet card etc.

Got on net just after first load.

The new look takes some getting use to, there is still plenty left to explore, but so far I am okay with it.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
Just loaded Vista and my first impression is my amazement of all the drivers that it loaded, like the vid card, usb, most motherboard driver, ethernet card etc.

Got on net just after first load.

The new look takes some getting use to, there is still plenty left to explore, but so far I am okay with it.

Dont worry, Nforce 5, and Intel 955 on up will need drivers im sure.

 

Originally posted by: CFster
I got a BSOD on my first reboot during install.

Wonder if it has something to do with my SATA drives.

Back to the drawing board...

You have to do the DVD install and load the SATA drivers. Some drivers don't work with Vista so you may be SOL.

 

Originally posted by: nsafreak
You know I wonder if Microsoft has ever contemplated making these beta tests open to the public instead of just MSDN subscribers and a few other folks. I'd think they'd get a lot more data on what causes problems hardware/software wise to improve the operating system before release.

They do that around RC1. Problem is they charge for the "privledge".

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: dwell

Originally posted by: CFster
I got a BSOD on my first reboot during install.

Wonder if it has something to do with my SATA drives.

Back to the drawing board...

You have to do the DVD install and load the SATA drivers. Some drivers don't work with Vista so you may be SOL.

I'm doing the DVD install. Installing from the XP desktop for a dual boot configuration. How do I get it to install the SATA drivers?

 

[Ronin]

Odd. No matter what I tried, my SATA drives showed up as unavailable. I had to actually throw a PATA drive into the machine to get it to work properly.

http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/vistadesk.png
http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/vistadeskicons.png
http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/filetransfer.png
http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/taskman.png

Thus far, for the most part, Vista has proven to be a different GUIed WinXP, with little to offer in the way of change. At least this version is a TON more stable than the previous ones. I'll be happier when they get raid support in as well.

 

[ProAm500]

Has anyone been able to use a wireless network on Vista. I cant use my Netgear WG311T PCI card that I use and it recognizes my card, but I cant ge any access nor use the Netgear App to see my network. I have read on Thurott's site that he has had wireless problems as well. Wondering if anyone has had any success...

 

[bobsmith1492]

Looks purdy..... yay. I've still got XP set up to look like '98 which looks like '95..... guess I'm a creature of habit. Have to say it was good to get rid of 3.1 though, although DOS was cool....

So is it supposed to be more stable or have better driver support or is it just supposed to look cool?

 

[n7]

I haven't bothered updating this post since i've been too busy to play around with Vista some more.

Does anyone know if regular programs are supposed to work?

I can't seem to get anything installed.
Installs all fail for me.

I'm using the 32-bit version too, since i had hoped it'd be easier to work with.

 

[bdoople]

I'm using the 32bit version cuz I couldn't find a fast source for 64-bit. I got steam installed and played some CSS earlier, Trillian is running, winamp, rainmeter, mIRC, and some other things. No problems yet aside from some random "Computer disappearing" errors, where My computer is no longer available. Pretty good so far.