A few questions for people who believe in Jesus/God?

[SlowSpyder]

I think most people believe in God because people are scared to die. They want life to have meaning. They want to think that when they die their dog Patches is going to be wagging his tail in puppy heaven. They want to believe that mom is going to be in heaven waiting with a plate of warm chocolate chip cookies.

Will everything go black when we die? When I went to my mother's death bed two years ago the thought of heaven/hell ran through my mind. Was she in Heaven? It was a weird feeling.

It is obvious how confident the vast majority of the faithful really are in an afterlife by how hard they try to stay on this earth in this life with us nonbelievers.

If I were a christian who believed in eternal paradise with the most amazing being anyone could imagine, I'd simply pray on every sickness I got and never see the doctor. God would either heal me or he wouldn't, either way is a win.

 

[SlitheryDee]

It is obvious how confident the vast majority of the faithful really are in an afterlife by how hard they try to stay on this earth in this life with us nonbelievers.

If I were a christian who believed in eternal paradise with the most amazing being anyone could imagine, I'd simply pray on every sickness I got and never see the doctor. God would either heal me or he wouldn't, either way is a win.

The real damning evidence is Christian funerals. I can understand being sad if you're not going to see someone for a while, which is what you'd expect the attitude of a religious person to be about death, but the level grief I've seen speaks of a different belief. For all the talk about the person being in a better place, most Christians treat death as something far more final than that.

The mother slumped over her child's casket making the noises one would expect a person to make if they were being slowly dismembered isn't acting like this is only a temporary separation. She's acting the way someone would if it really was over for good for that person. The wife mourning her husband will mouth all the proper words about how her husband is in heaven with so-and-so who died before him, but when she sees the body all that faith-based fortitude disappears like the tissue-thin facade it is. Then you see the naked terror in their eyes. What they're terrified of is that this is really all there is.

If you really believe you're never seeing someone you love again, then that's the proper way to take it IMO. What it is not, however, is the attitude of someone who truly and deeply believes in their God and his promise of an afterlife.

 

[Mai72]

The real damning evidence is Christian funerals. I can understand being sad if you're not going to see someone for a while, which is what you'd expect the attitude of a religious person to be about death, but the level grief I've seen speaks of a different belief. For all the talk about the person being in a better place, most Christians treat death as something far more final than that. The mother slumped over her child's casket making the noises one would expect a person to make if they were being slowly dismembered isn't acting like this is only a temporary separation. She's acting the way someone would if it really was over for good for that person. If you really believe you're never seeing someone you love again, then that's the proper way to take it IMO. What it is not, however, is the attitude of someone who truly and deeply believes in their God and his promise of an afterlife.

In our culture we don't deal with death that well. Look at how we treat the dead. We clean and dress them up like we're going to a dinner and a show. The person is dead!

 

[Retro Rob]

It is obvious how confident the vast majority of the faithful really are in an afterlife by how hard they try to stay on this earth in this life with us nonbelievers.

That's like saying that since you're so sure your going to die and cannot take your stuff with you, why not sell all of your belongings and live off the bare-minimum until your day comes? Why are you trying to enjoy the material advantages of life knowing your going to eventually lose them?

Yet, you work hard everyday to buy clothing, home furnishings, and to keep your job knowing you're going to die and lose it all.

If you reject that line of reasoning, you'd then see why I reject yours.

 

[ch33zw1z]

That's like saying that since you're so sure your going to die and cannot take your stuff with you, why not sell all of your belongings and live off the bare-minimum until your day comes? Why are you trying to enjoy the material advantages of life knowing your going to eventually lose them?

That's precisely how Christ lived. Followers of Christ commit to striving to be like him. So you've hit the nail on the head. What you require, he will provide. Material belongings are not to be sought after. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Anything can become a god that blinds you from the righteous path.

 

[Retro Rob]

That's precisely how Christ lived. Followers of Christ commit to striving to be like him. So you've hit the nail on the head. What you require, he will provide. Material belongings are immaterial. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Anything can become a god that blinds you from the righteous path.

Yep, and he also spread his message. So the next time a Christian brings the message to you, you should congratulate him for being like Christ, right?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yep, and he also spread his message. So the next time a Christian brings the message to you, you should congratulate him for being like Christ, right?

That depends on his delivery method. Christ spread his word through actions more than actual words. If a self proclaimed Christian says one thing and does another, he's dismissed like any other hypocrite. I'll respect a Christian that will practice what they preach. Those are hard to come by.

 

[sandorski]

That's like saying that since you're so sure your going to die and cannot take your stuff with you, why not sell all of your belongings and live off the bare-minimum until your day comes? Why are you trying to enjoy the material advantages of life knowing your going to eventually lose them?

Yet, you work hard everyday to buy clothing, home furnishings, and to keep your job knowing you're going to die and lose it all.

If you reject that line of reasoning, you'd then see why I reject yours.

...because Material Possessions are to be enjoyed now.

 

[Retro Rob]

That depends on his delivery method. Christ spread his word through actions more than actual words. If a self proclaimed Christian says one thing and does another, he's dismissed like any other hypocrite. I'll respect a Christian that will practice what they preach. Those are hard to come by.

Luke 10:1 says Jesus sent out 70 disciples in twos. In other words, they were to personally come to you.

So the next time you see Mormons or JW's, (or any other preacher) congratulate them for being Christ-like and following his commands.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

That's precisely how Christ lived. Followers of Christ commit to striving to be like him. So you've hit the nail on the head. What you require, he will provide.

No, what a person REALLY requires is food and water. And all you have to do is open up your eyes and see devout people starving while praying for drought and famine to end and you'll understand that the invisible man in the sky can't even provide the basics.

 

[02ranger]

Part of the problem with a lot of these arguments, IMHO, is the definition of Christian. My definition of Christian is one who honestly strives to be like Christ every day in every way. One who honestly adheres to the Bible, and who tests everything in this world against it. Somebody that lives like that, most (note that I said most, not all) of these arguments don't apply to that person. Unfortunately, most people define Christian as somebody that goes to church on Sunday mornings, when 95% of those "churches" they attend are as far from being Christian as the Sun is from being the Moon. If people recognized that most of the nominal "Christian" faith were just play-acting hoping to get into Heaven (for those that believe in Heaven) and the rest are just using their church for social status, and they instead looked to the ones truly living a Christ-like life, most of the criticisms of the Christian people would fold up.

Now I can't say the same for the Christian faith, because there will always be people that don't agree with it, and they do have some valid points, but I think it's unfair to define the entire group by what the one's who don't even bother to try more than a day a week do. Use the portion of the group that's actually following the Bible, or at least making a truly honest attempt at it.

/soapbox

 

[ch33zw1z]

Luke 10:1 says Jesus sent out 70 disciples in twos. In other words, they were to personally come to you.

So the next time you see Mormons or JW's, (or any other preacher) congratulate them for being Christ-like and following his commands.

What I've said still stands.

Being Christ like doesn't require congratulations. Your reward awaits you after your mortal life is over.

You don't be Christ like for the street cred. Jesus was humble, strive to be like him.

 

[ch33zw1z]

No, what a person REALLY requires is food and water. And all you have to do is open up your eyes and see devout people starving while praying for drought and famine to end and you'll understand that the invisible man in the sky can't even provide the basics.

Thanks for that, captain obvious

 

[Retro Rob]

...because Material Possessions are to be enjoyed now.

...and life itself isn't?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

How did you prove that your senses weren't deceived?

*Crickets chirping*

 

[Retro Rob]

What I've said still stands.

Being Christ like doesn't require congratulations. Your reward awaits you after your mortal life is over.

You don't be Christ like for the street cred. Jesus was humble, strive to be like him.

Not what I was saying. Simply put, being Christ-like is much more than taking a vow of poverty. It also entails non-violence, preaching, etc.

You seem to only want to focus on the "poor" part of it.

 

[sandorski]

...and life itself isn't?

What does that have to do with keeping possessions after death?

 

[Caveman]

In Christian religion it's believed that if you're' good and without sin you go to heaven. If you're bad and lived a sinful life you go to hell.

That's all fine and dandy, but life isn't black and white.

For instance,

1. What happens if you have a mental disorder and you go on a murderous rampage?

2. What happens if you're attacked and you kill someone in self-defense?

3. What happens if a US drone attacks a terrorist site, but kills innocent women and children instead? Are Americans going to hell?

What you explained about heaven and hell is a mainstream "Christian" belief... Mainstream Christianity has very little to do with what Christ actually taught. Mainstream Christianity amalgamates other pagan beliefs aside from heaven, hell into it's observances... Christmas, Easter, etc... Most people do not take the time to research and prove to themselves what the bible actually professes. Rest easy, the only everlasting "hell" in the bible is a grave in the ground. God has no desire to burn people in an everlasting hellfire -- that's an absurd idea based on pagan ignorance just like "heaven"... There's much more to the future of humanity than strumming harps on clouds...

 

[SlowSpyder]

...and life itself isn't?

Wait, so you are saying that prayer doesn't do anything then? Because if that isn't what you're getting at, then the analogy you made to try and answer the post I made about christians trying not to die doesn't make any sense.

I didn't say kill yourself, I said let god handle it while you pray over it. Which by the way, if I really belived in jesus, christian heaven, etc., I'd not worry much about possessions I guess... why don't more believers live in that manner? (my guess is because they don't believe so much as need a coping mechanism to face their and their loved ones mortality)

 

[ch33zw1z]

Not what I was saying. Simply put, being Christ-like is much more than taking a vow of poverty. It also entails non-violence, preaching, etc.

You seem to only want to focus on the "poor" part of it.

I'm focusing on the part where people who call themselves Christians should act like it.

You seem to want to focus on the material possessions, and going out to convert people. I'm not going to congratulate people on being Christ like, a true Christian wouldn't be looking for street cred or encouraging it. It's not a competition. It's a personal relationship with your Lord and Saviour, and a life style commitment.

There's nothing "poor" about it, unless you want to base your wealth on how much stuff you own, or how much money you have. Neither of which a Christian should be focusing on, as Jesus showed us through his actions and teachings.

God will provide you wealth beyond material possessions, but if you don't want to see it that way...well, that's your problem...not mine.

 

[SlowSpyder]

The real damning evidence is Christian funerals. I can understand being sad if you're not going to see someone for a while, which is what you'd expect the attitude of a religious person to be about death, but the level grief I've seen speaks of a different belief. For all the talk about the person being in a better place, most Christians treat death as something far more final than that.

The mother slumped over her child's casket making the noises one would expect a person to make if they were being slowly dismembered isn't acting like this is only a temporary separation. She's acting the way someone would if it really was over for good for that person. The wife mourning her husband will mouth all the proper words about how her husband is in heaven with so-and-so who died before him, but when she sees the body all that faith-based fortitude disappears like the tissue-thin facade it is. Then you see the naked terror in their eyes. What they're terrified of is that this is really all there is.

If you really believe you're never seeing someone you love again, then that's the proper way to take it IMO. What it is not, however, is the attitude of someone who truly and deeply believes in their God and his promise of an afterlife.

It is a coping mechanism, in my opinion. If I really believed what christians claimed, I would be welcoming death with open arms and so would they. I mean, at the very least what harm in leaving it in god's hands and pray on it... either way is a good outcome, right? (going on a tangent here, funny how prayer has remained throughout christianity, but only with the rise of modern medical science do we see lifespans increasing in any meaningful way... how could that be? )

Kinda along those lines, short clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-mB27_YA6w

 

[Retro Rob]

I'm focusing on the part where people who call themselves Christians should act like it.

So in other words, you look at Christians and say: "Hmm...what are part of their savior aren't they imitating....Ah! Some of them are rich! **** Christians! Christ wasn't rich! Be more like your Savior!".

So you're just really being judgmental. Seeing a Christian's wealth, however, doesn't in and of itself tell you how much of a Christian he/she is.

This is usually where I tell people to stay out of other folks pockets and mind your own.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So in other words, you look at Christians and say: "Hmm...what are part of their savior aren't they imitating....Ah! Some of them are rich! **** Christians! Christ wasn't rich! Be more like your Savior!".

So you're just really being judgmental. Seeing a Christian's wealth, however, doesn't in and of itself tell you how much of a Christian he/she is.

This is usually where I tell people to stay out of other folks pockets and mind your own.

So in other words, practice what you preach...or don't be surprised when people call you out on it. This actually requires you to know what you believe to begin with.

I never said a Christians wealth defines them as a Christian. I'm glad you realize that though.

What I said was that material wealth isn't the measure of a Christian, and is what faux Christians seek.

What you hear is that I think Christians should be poor, which is not what I said, and I already addressed that.

As I said before, actual Christians are hard to come by.