A few Qs about installing ethernet in a house

[Mushkins]

It's going to be way better than 'grainy' videos. While you may not be seeing manufacturers dumping NICs (they didn't dump parallel either for a long time). Businesses are going for wireless more and more to the clients.

I don't suppose you have a source or example for that? Small mom and pop business maybe, but small/medium and up I can't imagine would be ditching the cable anytime soon for a multitude of reasons. Wireless infrastructure is more expensive and less reliable, and SaaS is taking off like wildfire making that speed and reliability that much more important.

 

[imagoon]

Businesses are going for wireless more and more to the clients.

The booming low voltage businesses would say otherwise. Wireless has a place but other than the truly cheap tiny business segment, cable to the desk is far from dead.

I mean it works fine until the end user tries to send 200MB emails on wireless along with all the other horrible business practices that exist.

 

[Enigma102083]

If you're going to terminate your own cables, the RJ45ez connectors are nothing short of AMAZING.

http://www.platinumtools.com/products/100003.php

 

[imagoon]

If you're going to terminate your own cables, the RJ45ez connectors are nothing short of AMAZING.

http://www.platinumtools.com/products/100003.php

And the incorrect way to do it also. It also costs you more money, is much more likely to fail and wastes time when you can just buy the proper cables machine made in the first place for cheaper than the cost to hand build them.

 

[Mushkins]

And the incorrect way to do it also. It also costs you more money, is much more likely to fail and wastes time when you can just buy the proper cables machine made in the first place for cheaper than the cost to hand build them.

I'd be really worried about the ends being exposed even if chopped flush to the head, looks like a short waiting to happen. And the require a specialized crimper? Yuck.

All in all those might work in an absolute pinch, but I definitely wouldn't recommend them for any serious cabling job. If you're gonna do it, do it right.

 

[alkemyst]

I don't suppose you have a source or example for that? Small mom and pop business maybe, but small/medium and up I can't imagine would be ditching the cable anytime soon for a multitude of reasons. Wireless infrastructure is more expensive and less reliable, and SaaS is taking off like wildfire making that speed and reliability that much more important.

Not at all, rewiring a building from say old Cat5 to Cat6 is one of the most expensive things one can do.

Wireless have been secure and reliable at the Enterprise level for a long time now.

 

[alkemyst]

The booming low voltage businesses would say otherwise. Wireless has a place but other than the truly cheap tiny business segment, cable to the desk is far from dead.

I mean it works fine until the end user tries to send 200MB emails on wireless along with all the other horrible business practices that exist.

Future 802.11ac can handle these loads.

Hell even on most wired LANs you can get saturated by a few users, many same businesses are dealing with DSL or cable connections.

 

[imagoon]

Future 802.11ac can handle these loads.

Hell even on most wired LANs you can get saturated by a few users, many same businesses are dealing with DSL or cable connections.

When we actually get to 802.11ac then we can revisit. Until then, most phones and tablets out now and on the market still use Wireless G. Wireless N isn't even consistent on new laptops now and most of the time it is the 2.4ghz band versus 5 ghz band when it is there.

Right now there are times that in order to handle say 30 users 30-90 devices (laptop, phone, tablet mix) in a small space it takes some pretty decent gear. Then add in the neighbors / microwaves etc it can get to be a pretty significant cost to properly cover a space without degradation. Meanwhile the old cat5 in the walls can handle 100mb and sometimes Gigabit without issue and generally is going to be more stable.

Wireless has a place, it complements wired but I seriously doubt it will ever fully replace wires in all cases. Homes sure. Business not so much, otherwise we would see wireless servers, wireless iSCSI / FC SANs etc.

 

[Mushkins]

Not at all, rewiring a building from say old Cat5 to Cat6 is one of the most expensive things one can do.

We're not talking about upgrading Cat5 to Cat6 any more than we're talking about replacing wireless APs and infrastructure as technology advances. There is always a cost associated with upgrading technology. Enterprise grade wireless equipment paired with enterprise grade desktop wireless cards and maintaining that wireless environment is most certainly more expensive than dropping cables and using the standard equipment that comes with every workstation. Any business that ran Cat5 to the desk and is now considering moving to Gigabit Ethernet with a need to replace with Cat6 got a solid 15-20 years of performance out of that original cable. And for all intents and purposes they could keep waiting and keep using that perfectly good Cat5 for a 10/100 network which works just fine for most business needs and is still faster than 802.11g. Cat5e was available in what, 1998? So any business that used Cat5e in their installations in the past 15 years is still perfectly ready for a full GigE LAN at least until whatever the next technology is becomes affordable and reasonable for business. It's not like businesses are re-running full cable drops every two years.

Wireless have been secure and reliable at the Enterprise level for a long time now.

Enterprise level wireless encryption with certificates and smart cards and RSA tokens and all of that is definitely more secure than your typical Linksys router with a WPA2 key. It's also crazy expensive and no, it's not as fast or as reliable. All the security protocols in the world don't help you when the microwave in the breakroom and everyone's cell phone sitting on their desk interferes with their wireless connection. And wireless on a fundamental level circumvents the most basic physical security measure of a wired connection: physically needing to be there and plugging it in.

Future 802.11ac can handle these loads.

Hell even on most wired LANs you can get saturated by a few users, many same businesses are dealing with DSL or cable connections.

I'm cringing just thinking about trying to cram 200+ employees all into one building using exclusively wireless internet. There's absolutely no business reason I can think of to justify the extra headaches compared to dropping cables right to the desk. Its more money and more frustration and less productivity for... what benefit exactly? Not to mention that no business in their right mind is going to design their network based around the idea that the technology will "eventually catch up to our needs with a new standard." You don't spend money on something that doesn't meet your needs already unless your goal is to run your business into the dirt.

And if your letting an enterprise network become saturated by a few users, your network engineers aren't doing their jobs. Even the most simple QoS configuration totally prevents the scenario you just described.

It's clear you're really into wireless, and thats great, but you still haven't brought any evidence to the table to indicate that businesses are getting ready to dump the wire and go all wireless outside of maybe your local hardware store with one PC and a residential cable connection. Either way, this thread has been derailed enough and this has nothing to do with the OPs questions about running wired ethernet through a home.

 

[alkemyst]

When we actually get to 802.11ac then we can revisit. Until then, most phones and tablets out now and on the market still use Wireless G. Wireless N isn't even consistent on new laptops now and most of the time it is the 2.4ghz band versus 5 ghz band when it is there.

Right now there are times that in order to handle say 30 users 30-90 devices (laptop, phone, tablet mix) in a small space it takes some pretty decent gear. Then add in the neighbors / microwaves etc it can get to be a pretty significant cost to properly cover a space without degradation. Meanwhile the old cat5 in the walls can handle 100mb and sometimes Gigabit without issue and generally is going to be more stable.

Wireless has a place, it complements wired but I seriously doubt it will ever fully replace wires in all cases. Homes sure. Business not so much, otherwise we would see wireless servers, wireless iSCSI / FC SANs etc.

The technology is coming. The future plans are having physical media only to the data center / from the WAN. All servers/clients will be wireless.

Much of the hurdles you are explaining have been handled with the new technology.

 

[alkemyst]

We're not talking about upgrading Cat5 to Cat6 any more than we're talking about replacing wireless APs and infrastructure as technology advances. There is always a cost associated with upgrading technology. Enterprise grade wireless equipment paired with enterprise grade desktop wireless cards and maintaining that wireless environment is most certainly more expensive than dropping cables and using the standard equipment that comes with every workstation. Any business that ran Cat5 to the desk and is now considering moving to Gigabit Ethernet with a need to replace with Cat6 got a solid 15-20 years of performance out of that original cable. And for all intents and purposes they could keep waiting and keep using that perfectly good Cat5 for a 10/100 network which works just fine for most business needs and is still faster than 802.11g. Cat5e was available in what, 1998? So any business that used Cat5e in their installations in the past 15 years is still perfectly ready for a full GigE LAN at least until whatever the next technology is becomes affordable and reasonable for business. It's not like businesses are re-running full cable drops every two years.

Many enterprise buildings are behind the times on cabling. It's going to get very real soon and the cost to rewire major buildings is far more than deploying APs.

Enterprise level wireless encryption with certificates and smart cards and RSA tokens and all of that is definitely more secure than your typical Linksys router with a WPA2 key. It's also crazy expensive and no, it's not as fast or as reliable. All the security protocols in the world don't help you when the microwave in the breakroom and everyone's cell phone sitting on their desk interferes with their wireless connection. And wireless on a fundamental level circumvents the most basic physical security measure of a wired connection: physically needing to be there and plugging it in.

It will be. I am sure many are thinking this just like people would be using Linksys and the like in the office.

BYOD is already handling cell phones. There are methods in place for the rest.

This is a good read http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/col...9_ns736_Networking_Solutions_White_Paper.html

I'm cringing just thinking about trying to cram 200+ employees all into one building using exclusively wireless internet. There's absolutely no business reason I can think of to justify the extra headaches compared to dropping cables right to the desk. Its more money and more frustration and less productivity for... what benefit exactly? Not to mention that no business in their right mind is going to design their network based around the idea that the technology will "eventually catch up to our needs with a new standard." You don't spend money on something that doesn't meet your needs already unless your goal is to run your business into the dirt.

Are you a network engineer? Have you been keeping up to date with all the new technologies being discussed ATM? Your views sound just like how wireless was looked at in the beginning.

And if your letting an enterprise network become saturated by a few users, your network engineers aren't doing their jobs. Even the most simple QoS configuration totally prevents the scenario you just described.

It's clear you're really into wireless, and thats great, but you still haven't brought any evidence to the table to indicate that businesses are getting ready to dump the wire and go all wireless outside of maybe your local hardware store with one PC and a residential cable connection. Either way, this thread has been derailed enough and this has nothing to do with the OPs questions about running wired ethernet through a home.

QoS never solves lack of bandwidth issues. It can reallocate that bandwidth more efficiently though.

 

[imagoon]

Much of the hurdles you are explaining have been handled with the new technology.

Yeah, I have been told that a lot of times in the past.

 

[alkemyst]

Yeah, I have been told that a lot of times in the past.

We all have.

 

[Mushkins]

Many enterprise buildings are behind the times on cabling. It's going to get very real soon and the cost to rewire major buildings is far more than deploying APs.

It will be. I am sure many are thinking this just like people would be using Linksys and the like in the office.

BYOD is already handling cell phones. There are methods in place for the rest.

This is a good read http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/col...9_ns736_Networking_Solutions_White_Paper.html



Are you a network engineer? Have you been keeping up to date with all the new technologies being discussed ATM? Your views sound just like how wireless was looked at in the beginning.



QoS never solves lack of bandwidth issues. It can reallocate that bandwidth more efficiently though.

You made a bunch of vague half-statements and non-points, and link a cisco whitepaper that supports my exact point about wireless interference being a major player in why full-wireless networks of that size are not reliable.

I don't even. What?

And yes, I'm familiar with 802.11ac specs, I do have a background in network engineering, and it's not some magic bullet that is going to make everything wireless and fast and reliable and cheap like cables.

You're welcome to back this up with some actual, factual, proven information and i'd be happy to discuss its flaw and merits. So far you've been selling snake oil, and this is waaay off topic. Right now this might as well be yet another thread about "the PC is dead because tablets." Sounds great on the evening news, but isn't grounded in the reality of computing.