A different form of Imperialism?

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routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14740054
Here's to the "world powers" toying with other nations and people, to derive benefit, economic and otherwise. As long as nations are "controlled" in one form or the other, catch phrases like "freedom" and "liberty" are nothing but nonsense.

At some point in the future, these very actions may come to bite us back. With bad consequences.

The BBC has learned that David Cameron set up a secret unit within Whitehall to mount covert economic operations against Colonel Gaddafi.

The so-called "Libya oil cell" helped block fuel supplies to Tripoli while ensuring that petrol and diesel continued to get through to the rebels in the east.

Whitehall officials said the unit - made up of a handful of civil servants, ministers and military figures - played a crucial role in starving the regime's war effort of fuel while making sure that the rebels could continue taking the fight to Gaddafi.

The unit was the brain child of the international development minister, Alan Duncan.
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Schadenfroh

Schadenfroh

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Mar 8, 2003
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The UK (and by extension NATO) is at war with Libya, it is only logical that one would seek to combat them in spheres other than military force.

catch phrases like "freedom" and "liberty" are nothing but nonsense
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Does the constitution of the UK promise freedom and liberty to anyone but the citizens of the UK?
 
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routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
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Schadenfroh said:
The UK (and by extension NATO) is at war with Libya, it is only logical that one would seek to combat them in spheres other than military force.


Does the constitution of the UK promise freedom and liberty to anyone but the citizens of the UK?
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I dont remember any declaration of war by the UK or NATO. As far as I recall, the UN gave them a pseudo-legal cover to engage in the protection of civilians, which they then extended to providing any and all sort of aid, be it military or economic, or any other, to the rebels in their goal of overthrowing Gaddhafi and giving them with the "reward" of reconstruction contracts. My understanding is "rebels" != "civilians"

The UK and other "world-powers" use these catch phrases to further their agenda in other parts of the world. I never suggested what you are framing as a question.

But I like your narrative :D Interesting ways to defend a legally, politically, morally and ethically bankrupt point of view. :thumbsup:
 
ElFenix

ElFenix

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Mar 20, 2000
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routan said:
I dont remember any declaration of war by the UK or NATO.
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because obviously they need to sign forms in triplicate before dropping bombs is considered acts of war.

lets go into battle with full brass bands and uniforms that are for show more than anything else like the 1700s as well.
 
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routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
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ElFenix said:
because obviously they need to sign forms in triplicate before dropping bombs is considered acts of war.

lets go into battle with full brass bands and uniforms that are for show more than anything else like the 1700s as well.
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Normally you "declare war". Its defined by the Hague Convention,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war

I suppose this is only valid when a "mooslem" country initiates. Otherwise, omg, it is definitely a "terrorist act". When the UK or NATO does, it is ofcourse fair, politically, legally, morally and ethically correct.

But I see how you admit that these "world powers" are "at war" with Libya. When you have Gaddhafi's "soldiers" or the preferred word on this forum: "terrorists" attack the interests of the "world powers", I'd like to hear the tune you sing then.
 
ElFenix

ElFenix

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if it were his soldiers with his flag doing it out in the open it would also be war. if its his intelligence officers planting bombs on airplanes and not even claiming to have done the act on top of that it's terrorism.
 
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routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
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ElFenix said:
if it were his soldiers with his flag doing it out in the open it would also be war. if its his intelligence officers planting bombs on airplanes and not even claiming to have done the act on top of that it's terrorism.
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ah. so can you please relate the above to the current scenario in Libya?

i can see the intelligence officers clearly representing their government. and they have a completely different narrative to the obvious one and truthful one.

to my juvenile and naive eyes, the context in Libya is exactly the same. no one in NATO claims to be "in war". They only claim to be "protecting the civilians from massacre". its just a wholly different narrative to the clearly obvious and truthful one.

edit: i did challenge your assertion that I am wrong when saying UK and NATO are not "at war" with Libya and there has been no "declaration of war", but you chose not to respond. so i take it that you accepted my point of view.
 
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ElFenix

ElFenix

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routan said:
ah. so can you please relate the above to the current scenario in Libya?

i can see the intelligence officers clearly representing their government. and they have a completely different narrative to the obvious one and truthful one.
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there were warplanes clearly dropping bombs on military targets at the same time? i guess that's just too difficult to see.

to my juvenile and naive eyes, the context in Libya is exactly the same. no one in NATO claims to be "in war". They only claim to be "protecting the civilians from massacre". its just a wholly different narrative to the clearly obvious and truthful one.
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that's great.

edit: i did challenge your assertion that I am wrong when saying UK and NATO are not "at war" with Libya and there has been no "declaration of war", but you chose not to respond. so i take it that you accepted my point of view.
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:rolleyes:
i did respond, if you can't figure that out i'm not going to bother with you anymore.
 
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routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
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ElFenix said:
there were warplanes clearly dropping bombs on military targets at the same time? i guess that's just too difficult to see.


that's great.



:rolleyes:
i did respond, if you can't figure that out i'm not going to bother with you anymore.
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:whiste:
what is not difficult to see is your obvious bias. you will lend support to anything done by NATO, or the West, and consider anything done by those in the "mooslem" world to be evil, bad, and wholly wrong :thumbsup:
you shouldnt have begun to bother :rolleyes:
 
W

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
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routan said:
ah. so can you please relate the above to the current scenario in Libya?
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The United Nations invoked Chapter VII in Resolution 1973 (2011).

Warfare (external state military air action within Libyan territory) was legal and authorised:

“4. Authorizes Member States that have notified the Secretary-General, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, and acting in cooperation with the Secretary-General, to take all necessary measures, notwithstanding paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 (2011), to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory, and requests the Member States concerned to inform the Secretary-General immediately of the measures they take pursuant to the authorization conferred by this paragraph which shall be immediately reported to the Security Council;
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The extent of such actions are likely beyond the goals of simply "protecting civilians," but please put to rest the blubbering about war not being declared. Learn to argue points that provide room for an argument.
 
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routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
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Whiskey16 said:
The United Nations invoked Chapter VII in Resolution 1973 (2011).

Warfare (external state military air action within Libyan territory) was legal and authorised:

“4. Authorizes Member States that have notified the Secretary-General, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, and acting in cooperation with the Secretary-General, to take all necessary measures, notwithstanding paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 (2011), to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory, and requests the Member States concerned to inform the Secretary-General immediately of the measures they take pursuant to the authorization conferred by this paragraph which shall be immediately reported to the Security Council;
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The extent of such actions are likely beyond the goals of simply "protecting civilians," but please put to rest the blubbering about war not being declared. Learn to argue points that provide room for an argument.
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I see. I guess I should learn to read better :rolleyes:
Is this the post where you are saying war was declared, or are you saying war was not declared? I didnt even bring up the point of war being declared. Mr. Schadenfroh did. And to my knowledge, he is incorrect.
 
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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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lols at us waging another "illegal war" idiots. it's ok though cause gaddaffi was the bad guy! just like saddam! hypocrites. stop backing it just because the D's do. they backed Iraq too remember? at least most of them. assholes running around screaming no blood for oil, then shut the fuck up as soon as "their team" does it. life isn't a team sport dumbfucks.
 
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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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momeNt, Gaddaffi had been helping us kill AQ before this. Sarkozy was his buddy coming to his defense less than 5 years ago. Oh how out of touch most of you are with what has been going on in the world.
 
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momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
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I have no idea what's actually being discussed in this thread. I skimmed... saw declarations of war, I made an open declaration of thumb war, and routan got stomped.

I'll rebuild his ego but he will be a debtor poster and all his oil are belong to me.
 
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