A Creationists View of Dinosaurs and the Theory of Evolution

[Gigantopithecus]

I can't think of any right at this moment.

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Go read up on the Kitzmiller v. Dover trial. In the meantime, I will go do productive things with my science...that makes predictions...that can be tested.

 

[Gibsons]

...but during those days, those WERE scientific theories.

They still are scientific... whether they're wrong or right. You're trying to equate them to creationology.

A different point of comparison might be Lysenko, just in terms of ideology vs. the scientific method. Lysenko-ism was at least scientific, it was just wrong. When ideological processes trumped scientific ones, bad things happened.

I can't think of any right at this moment.

Until you or someone else can, it's not a scientific theory.

Furthermore, if it can't rule out anything, how is it useful to me? I'm trying to sort out some differences between mouse and human genomes and how that might relate to a few different cancers. Evolution helps me with that. "God wanted it that way" is no help at all.

If it's of no utility to a biologist, why teach it in a biology classroom? Why not teach evolution which is useful, at least up to now?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

ooo, what seedy things did he do, of which I am unaware?

Oh he was a fair scoundrel. The myth that surrounds Galileo is almost equal to that of Columbus being the noble and heroic explorer. I think we have mostly gotten over that.

The reality is that the Church was not particularly fond of him for his theories however he did have an "in" with Pope Urban. Urban was intelligent and accepted what Galileo and Copernicus wrote, but there was a political reality which he faced. Popes were not all powerful and finding an untimely end was a distinct possibility. This particular moment in history was a time when there was opportunity to bring in new blood which would both be more amenable to scientific ideas and firm up Urban's position. What he wanted was for Galileo to sit on things for a bit until then. Not a "wait forever" thing, but when people with virtually unlimited power are your enemy it's best to do something about them first.

Galileo being Galileo (the guy who abused and sent away his daughter for not being a man) was not to be put off. He turned on his friend and made him into an idiot. No, he took his friend who was the head of the most powerful organization on the planet and mocked him publically out of spite and that was a direct attack on the Catholic Church and by extension those not very nice people Urban was trying to defang.

Urban had no choice but to allow Galileo to deal with whatever tender mercies the Cardinals deemed appropriate. He's lucky he wasn't executed.

So in the end it wasn't the noble Galileo who cried out for truth and was attacked by the establishment, but a jerk who didn't know when to keep his mouth shut, and turned on his family and friends when it suited his ego.

Don't even get me started on how he played Kepler.

 

[alkemyst]

Oh he was a fair scoundrel. The myth that surrounds Galileo is almost equal to that of Columbus being the noble and heroic explorer. I think we have mostly gotten over that.

The reality is that the Church was not particularly fond of him for his theories however he did have an "in" with Pope Urban. Urban was intelligent and accepted what Galileo and Copernicus wrote, but there was a political reality which he faced. Popes were not all powerful and finding an untimely end was a distinct possibility. This particular moment in history was a time when there was opportunity to bring in new blood which would both be more amenable to scientific ideas and firm up Urban's position. What he wanted was for Galileo to sit on things for a bit until then. Not a "wait forever" thing, but when people with virtually unlimited power are your enemy it's best to do something about them first.

Galileo being Galileo (the guy who abused and sent away his daughter for not being a man) was not to be put off. He turned on his friend and made him into an idiot. No, he took his friend who was the head of the most powerful organization on the planet and mocked him publically out of spite and that was a direct attack on the Catholic Church and by extension those not very nice people Urban was trying to defang.

Urban had no choice but to allow Galileo to deal with whatever tender mercies the Cardinals deemed appropriate. He's lucky he wasn't executed.

So in the end it wasn't the noble Galileo who cried out for truth and was attacked by the establishment, but a jerk who didn't know when to keep his mouth shut, and turned on his family and friends when it suited his ego.

Don't even get me started on how he played Kepler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI1keSSwdcI

 

[dxkj]

I think it is interesting that there were miracles out the ass when there were less than 200 million people in the world, but now that there are 7billion + along with hundreds of millions of cameras, there are none.... other than the ones that can be completely explained by scientific methods... or initial mis-diagnosis' etc...

The clincher for me, is that I was born into a Christian family, went to church, found Jesus, and my entire family supported me in it.... yet someone in another country with a different family, raised in a different religion has two options... jump ship for a religion that the white devils on the news embrace, and be alienated from his family, possibly killed... or do what I did and stick with his family/religion.... doesn't seem like something a fair God would do.... and based on numbers, I am more likely to be the wrong one, and I should really switch religions , safer bet dontcha think?

Only ones who lose are Atheists who join a worldwide minority in believing in no God whatsoever, I mean come on, betting on no afterlife doesn't give you any kind of win... at least pick a side and hope, right??

 

[alkemyst]

I think it is interesting that there were miracles out the ass when there were less than 200 million people in the world, but now that there are 7billion + along with hundreds of millions of cameras, there are none.... other than the ones that can be completely explained by scientific methods... or initial mis-diagnosis' etc...

The clincher for me, is that I was born into a Christian family, went to church, found Jesus, and my entire family supported me in it.... yet someone in another country with a different family, raised in a different religion has two options... jump ship for a religion that the white devils on the news embrace, and be alienated from his family, possibly killed... or do what I did and stick with his family/religion.... doesn't seem like something a fair God would do.... and based on numbers, I am more likely to be the wrong one, and I should really switch religions , safer bet dontcha think?

Only ones who lose are Atheists who join a worldwide minority in believing in no God whatsoever, I mean come on, betting on no afterlife doesn't give you any kind of win... at least pick a side and hope, right??

Miracles aren't shown to non-accepting people.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Miracles aren't shown to non-accepting people.

Accepting people consider coincidences to be miraculous.

"I was just thinking about how I was worried about Jimmy when lo and behold his first wife's third cousins second favorite commercial came on the radio. I think that was the good Lord telling me I should reach out to him".

The mind is filled with tidbits of information that it tries to connect in any way it can. Learning that most of the shit it tries to put together is nonsense and focusing on weeding out the sensible connections is the way you get at real knowledge. Attributing it to Jesus so that you can pretend all of it means something is just laziness.

 

[BudAshes]

Miracles aren't shown to non-accepting people.

Sometimes I truly wonder whether we are all the same species.

 

[AViking]

I don't think you're supporting your earlier statement "I would even argue that the more I learn about biology, the more I believe we were created."

As I molecular guy, I would agree with Gigantopithecus's opinion that said creator was some mixture of insane or cruel.

No, I don't think I or we know everything.

If there is an intelligent designer it might be worth looking at where our anus is and thinking about how when a woman gives birth she generally shits on the table.

 

[AViking]

Miracles aren't shown to non-accepting people.

Actually it's more of confirmation bias and that correlation does not imply causation.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

 

[rudeguy]

Actually it's more of confirmation bias and that correlation does not imply causation.

actually its more of a problem of people refusing to admit something is a miracle. We all witness miracles quite frequently. We hear about them on the news even more frequently. But society has degraded to a point where most people's minds don't even pay attention let alone remember or appreciate what they have witnessed.

But that's what has to happen I guess. I don't base my faith on other people's views and I don't attempt to sway their beliefs with my own. I do however, welcome a good debate.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

You're going to have to define a miracle.

Don't say something like "someone helping someone else cross the street". That's hippie shenanigans. Even the Bible shows miracles as something that is supposed to be impossible. Water to wine, walking on water, bush on fire without burning.

So where are these miracles that happen all the time.

Even the Catholic church, which has a agenda defined around showing that miracles exist, doesn't go around saying every other thing is a miracle.

 

[ch33zw1z]

actually its more of a problem of people refusing to admit something is a miracle. We all witness miracles quite frequently. We hear about them on the news even more frequently. But society has degraded to a point where most people's minds don't even pay attention let alone remember or appreciate what they have witnessed.

But that's what has to happen I guess. I don't base my faith on other people's views and I don't attempt to sway their beliefs with my own. I do however, welcome a good debate.

Please name the last miracle you have witnessed.

 

[WelshBloke]

actually its more of a problem of people refusing to admit something is a miracle. We all witness miracles quite frequently. We hear about them on the news even more frequently. But society has degraded to a point where most people's minds don't even pay attention let alone remember or appreciate what they have witnessed.

But that's what has to happen I guess. I don't base my faith on other people's views and I don't attempt to sway their beliefs with my own. I do however, welcome a good debate.

If they are common place aren't they, by definition, not miracles?

 

[rudeguy]

Please name the last miracle you have witnessed.

A video of puppies being born.

If you actually look at what has to happen for life to form, and to form so perfectly...I don't see how you can consider that anything but a miracle.

 

[rudeguy]

If they are common place aren't they, by definition, not miracles?

No

A miracle is an event not ascribable to human power or the laws of nature and consequently attributed to a supernatural, especially divine, agency.

 

[Juddog]

You're going to have to define a miracle.

Don't say something like "someone helping someone else cross the street". That's hippie shenanigans. Even the Bible shows miracles as something that is supposed to be impossible. Water to wine, walking on water, bush on fire without burning.

So where are these miracles that happen all the time.

Even the Catholic church, which has a agenda defined around showing that miracles exist, doesn't go around saying every other thing is a miracle.

I'm expecting the answer to be the same as the "choose your own adventure" style that most Christians use with the Bible; for example, feeling sick, praying to get better, then suddenly feeling better (which clinically speaking is no different than a placebo effect).

Actual miracles, like turning water into wine, or parting the sea, are going to be hard to find versus "I made a grilled cheese sandwich and Jesus' face came out on it"

 

[rudeguy]

I'm expecting the answer to be the same as the "choose your own adventure" style that most Christians use with the Bible; for example, feeling sick, praying to get better, then suddenly feeling better (which clinically speaking is no different than a placebo effect).

Actual miracles, like turning water into wine, or parting the sea, are going to be hard to find versus "I made a grilled cheese sandwich and Jesus' face came out on it"

A miracle is an event not ascribable to human power or the laws of nature and consequently attributed to a supernatural, especially divine, agency.

 

[Juddog]

A video of puppies being born.

If you actually look at what has to happen for life to form, and to form so perfectly...I don't see how you can consider that anything but a miracle.

That's not a miracle, that's an act of biology that happens constantly everywhere around you.

 

[Juddog]

A miracle is an event not ascribable to human power or the laws of nature and consequently attributed to a supernatural, especially divine, agency.

What's divine about puppies being born? Nothing - it's pure genetics and it's a process that developed over hundreds of millions of years in mammals.

 

[sdifox]

A video of puppies being born.

If you actually look at what has to happen for life to form, and to form so perfectly...I don't see how you can consider that anything but a miracle.

Millions of animals are born everyday... not a miracle.

 

[surfsatwerk]

I'm glad there's an internets between me and you people.

 

[ch33zw1z]

A video of puppies being born.

If you actually look at what has to happen for life to form, and to form so perfectly...I don't see how you can consider that anything but a miracle.

That's basically saying that life in a miracle.

 

[Juddog]

That's basically saying that life in a miracle.

That seems to be his point...