A consideration of race relations

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,031
2,886
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I have spent some time posting on P&N often in topics which relate to race relations, police shootings, BLM, etc. I have been quite frustrated because I have felt that there is such a lack of understanding and empathy in our navigation of these events. I had even brainstormed some ideas toward that end, but I have been ambivalent toward enacting them. Much of it comes from a lack of comfort with some aggression I feel, but I think I have stumbled upon (quite accidentally) something that would help me utilize it. To wit, I'd like to share a story and see where it goes from there, as I am just one person and I can only imagine what might go on in the minds of others.

The story is my own experience, a memory that had struck me recently. I was 9 years old, and my childhood was not what anyone considered normal. My father and I in particular were quite contentious. I have learned since how good of a man he was and to love him for it, but his limitations and my temperament were not made to go together.

He was a particularly self-sufficient man, handy, loved my older brother and I, and wanted to impart his handiness on us. We had a peculiar kitchen in our house whose pantry was on a far wall in the eating area. Well, we were building a separate one near the cooking area. He was trying to teach us to put on the doors. I was not an attentive child, and I remember understanding something of how things might work together and trying to figure that out. My father, of course, was trying to instruct me on what to do. I did not have the capacity to comprehend his goals and follow the directions, and he did not have the capacity to imagine what I might be thinking behind my approach. Unfortunately, he did not also have the patience to set aside the need to accomplish the task for the sake of learning to accomplish it together. And so I could not take one false action without his redirection, and eventually he would start doing the next task for me without recognizing my attempts or even efficacy in helping and understanding. So we fought, yelled, I cried. I do remember retreating to the other pantry and shutting myself in it in the end.

The irony here is that we understood each other perfectly but did not know it. I, of course, was feeling incapable, frustrated, wanting to do well and accomplish a task and master it with my father, and pissed off that I was not recognized, my awareness not appreciated, and imagining if only he would stop and listen and consider what I was going through for 1 second we could succeed.

But if I stop to consider my dad, who wanted nothing more but to work with me, teach me, show me his love, and provide for me skills and independence I needed, how he might have felt that he was incapable of doing this, frustrated at his attempts, wanting for himself to do well and master this task, and also so angry that I was not trying to see his attempt, that if only I was aware of him wanting us to do better instead of him being my enemy, if only for 1 second I could stop and listen and consider how he felt that way.

We were exactly the same then and miles apart at the same time.

My dad passed away May 31st. In the end, we both learned I believe why we struggled so and how we were so different and exactly the same and how much we loved each other and wanted to do better, but sadly we never did much better together.

When I look at racial conflict in America today, I do not see people who do not care for each other and believe that each other are the enemies and hate each other. Some have such extreme reactions that they cannot even see what is inside, that they must resolve this conflict by making the other out to be the enemy.

But I think most of us are inherently wanting to work together, to not see each other as different, to believe that we can demolish barriers and construct a better world together. And I think we are all feeling incapable, frustrated, angry, out of control, and deeply sad that we are in such a state.

But this sense that we are feeling exactly the same is not a new conclusion. This is where the anger comes in. Why can't we just set ourselves aside for a moment and empathize, to understand what is there, to make ourselves vulnerable?

And since we do not want this divide, we try solutions. We try to eliminate the idea of being different and any actions which might mark us as different or having differential power. And I think at these are merely a fantasy compromise so that we cannot feel so vulnerable any more, to avoid taking responsibility for these feelings and our contributions to them.

But we are all doing the best we can at any given moment. This is not a bad thing. I think it is the wrong compromise, but it is not being selfish or malicious. It is born from being human and in a place where we cannot win, so we must choose the best losing solution we can.

The part that is new to me, though, is that I can suspend the anger a little bit. In my story, since I knew my dad did not deserve all the anger, in reality I was feeling quite a bit of anger to myself for failing to see his love and desire and goodness, failing to act accordingly.

But the solution could not have been to try to eliminate the power differential, to parent in such a way where a kid is expected to have full autonomy of their environment. Kids are freaking kids. They need their parents to know better. To protect. To be bigger and wiser. And also to allow them to find these abilities for themselves.

So I could not demand from myself a skill I could not possibly have possessed. I was a 9 year-old boy and my father a 50 year-old man. If he could have done better at the time, I know he would have. It was still his job to do so.

I am a white man. I had no part in enslaving Africans nor the human rights violation that followed its abolition, but I will not deny that I have been advantaged as a result of such actions. And I am feeling frustrated, conflicted, wanting to help, angry, and vulnerable. And I need to admit these things freely. And I don't think we can accomplish much by trying to abolish what makes us different, but rather to help us identify what makes us the same and work from there.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,875
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In the beginning you wrote: " .....as I am just one person and I can only imagine what might go on in the minds of others.", and ended with: "And I don't think we can accomplish much by trying to abolish what makes us different, but rather to help us identify what makes us the same and work from there."

Personally, I feel that we are all the same, that you know my thinking or what makes me tick and I know your because we are all the same. In the body of your post you also tell us how we are.

That said, what I hear in your words are the pain that conscious awareness bring when applied as introspection. The only salve I can think to offer is that in this we are also all the same. The more conscious a person becomes the greater the conscious suffering they will feel. What makes you suffer, in my opinion, is the joy you feel in loving sentient beings, and the desire to share it with those who have lost their way. You can only give and the giving is all that you can take. I can only think there are so many others out there who can do so much better than I and they suffer for me, a stumbling little dummy of a machine.

Race, I think, is just one of many ways we use not to blame for and not feel our pain.

When you look at the suffering that violence and hate bring to the world do you not wish for power do destroy every last bit of it? And do you not also see that is exactly what all those mad people creating all that evil are doing? Who wants to know that the only answer that can does not add to the misery of the world is love? Who has the strength for that kind of forgiveness? Why is the only answer there is so hard? Who can forgive himself?
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
I am 59 years old. I am white and I was born in Africa of American Parents. My father was in the Air Force so we traveled around a bit. I was in the Army for a while so I have traveled around a bit also. I have lived in Maroocco, Biloxi Mississippi, Missouri, Illinois, Italy for 3 years in the 70's, Colorado Springs, Missouri Again, South Korea, El Paso Texas, South Korea again, Missouri again, Anchorage Alaska, Left the Military and returned to Wood River, Illinois where I have remained for many years.

Since I have lived in many different places at different times, I had the chance to meet many people not from the USA who think differently than we do. I have actually enjoyed the different cultures and try to understand them. I married a nice Korean Woman and we are still married over 30 years later.

Even though I met a lot of different people from different cultures Black people are the hardest people for me to get along with. They are angry, billigerent, Loud and abnoxious people. It seems they try real hard to feel hurt and angry and always blame white people for all their hangups. The problem is that white people have no one else to really blame for their problems so we fail to understand these confused black people.

Over the years I just decided it was not worth it for me to talk to such mean and hateful people. Because of their actions I felt it was not good to even try to talk to black people. Who wants all that hassle anyway. So I try not to talke, look at or even associate with black people unless I have to at work or at a store. I cant solve black people's mental disease and black people will never understand white people. So why bother?
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
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I am 59 years old. I am white and I was born in Africa of American Parents. My father was in the Air Force so we traveled around a bit. I was in the Army for a while so I have traveled around a bit also. I have lived in Maroocco, Biloxi Mississippi, Missouri, Illinois, Italy for 3 years in the 70's, Colorado Springs, Missouri Again, South Korea, El Paso Texas, South Korea again, Missouri again, Anchorage Alaska, Left the Military and returned to Wood River, Illinois where I have remained for many years.

Since I have lived in many different places at different times, I had the chance to meet many people not from the USA who think differently than we do. I have actually enjoyed the different cultures and try to understand them. I married a nice Korean Woman and we are still married over 30 years later.

Even though I met a lot of different people from different cultures Black people are the hardest people for me to get along with. They are angry, billigerent, Loud and abnoxious people. It seems they try real hard to feel hurt and angry and always blame white people for all their hangups. The problem is that white people have no one else to really blame for their problems so we fail to understand these confused black people.

Over the years I just decided it was not worth it for me to talk to such mean and hateful people. Because of their actions I felt it was not good to even try to talk to black people. Who wants all that hassle anyway. So I try not to talke, look at or even associate with black people unless I have to at work or at a store. I cant solve black people's mental disease and black people will never understand white people. So why bother?

Yeah it's real hard to understand why people might cop an attitude to those inclined to think this about them.

I actually started a reply to the OP, but wasn't terribly motivated to finish it even though it's not a terribly complex problem to explain. As matter of first principle it's a historically asymmetric relationship, abuser vs abusee, so there's no reason to assume equality here as if there's some great responsibility on the part of the latter to rectify any relationship.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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We're an intentionally divided culture and it seems we wouldn't have it any other way. It makes power easier to obtain by managing hate and fear. It has always been this way in any "enlightened" time, meaning since the dawn of history. Leaders then certainly thought themselves as superior people and the world they made the better for it. Some decades ago we had an attempt at honest unification, but that was too good to last.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
We're an intentionally divided culture and it seems we wouldn't have it any other way. It makes power easier to obtain by managing hate and fear. It has always been this way in any "enlightened" time, meaning since the dawn of history. Leaders then certainly thought themselves as superior people and the world they made the better for it. Some decades ago we had an attempt at honest unification, but that was too good to last.

It's hardly the enlightened folks' fault that not everyone is like them. You seem the type to blame the A students for the F ones.