A challenge to all the libbies & neocons out there...

[alchemize]

I think this might be a fun little game...Conservatives, let's say things that BUsh has done that we don't like.

Liberals, you say things he has done that you've liked.

The first side to crack loses (i.e. smart ass comment, criticizes another viewpoint, etc.) My silly thread rules, if you don't like it, start your own thread!


I don't like:
The Medicare bill he signed
Inactivity in reforming any agencies.

 

[Zephyr106]

Are moderates invited or is this game only for extremist elitists?

Zephyr

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Are moderates invited or is this game only for extremist elitists?

Zephyr

Are there any moderates on the board?

 

[Zephyr106]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Are moderates invited or is this game only for extremist elitists?

Zephyr

Are there any moderates on the board?

Of course there are. Perhaps you compartmentalize people and ignore nuance so everything is easier for you to understand.

Zephyr

 

[Bowfinger]

Great idea, alc. Can moderates play too?


I know there have been at least four specific times I've offered positive comments here about Bush:

1. He was critical of Israel about something about a year ago. I don't remember what it was, but Isreal was in the wrong and he said so. Thats often not very popular in certain circles.
   
2. He went to Iraq on Thanksgiving. While I suspect his motives, he still deserves credit for doing the right thing for the troops.
   
3. I think the argument about who won Florida is pointless. The fact is, the country was split almost evenly between Bush vs. Gore. The election could have gone either way on any given day. While I didn't like the result, I at least acknowledge that roughly half the country disagreed. That's the way Democracy works.
   
4. I think his grandfather's alleged connections to the Nazis are irrelevant. You cannot blame GWB for the actions of his grandfather.

There you go, guys. I challenge any of you Bush supporters to beat me by offering more than four criticisms.

 

[Witling]

Adding to what Bow said, I happen to think that the decision to give money to religious organizations that dispense social services is a good one. Lots of these organizations work down where the rubber meets the road and I think the money would be well spent. For example, most cities have some form of Rescue Mission to deal with the down and out. These are usually run with a Christian orientation and the do much good.

I hope that it's well known that my flame burns on the left.

 

[NonSequiter]

Libertarian here. I think my compliment to Bush is that some of the time, probably entirely coincidentally/accidentally, he makes a decision i agree with. Just like a clock which is broken shows the correct time twice a day.

My compliment to Kerry is that i don't have much to complain about regarding his positions. Of course, I have no idea what his positions are (and doubt he does either), so that's probably why that's the case. And when i do figure out what his positions are, for the ones i disagree with, he'll probably change his mind several times on anyway before all is said and done.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Witling
Adding to what Bow said, I happen to think that the decision to give money to religious organizations that dispense social services is a good one. Lots of these organizations work down where the rubber meets the road and I think the money would be well spent. For example, most cities have some form of Rescue Mission to deal with the down and out. These are usually run with a Christian orientation and the do much good.

I hope that it's well known that my flame burns on the left.

Even with that it gets sticky. I've never been a proponet of any privatization of governemnt work because I've been on the front lines and seen the grift that goes on. First, privates costs more. Not only do they have to hire the same people as governerment at the same salary (sometimes signifigantly more) but now they have additional expenditure of washington Lobbying expense to get this funding and keep it. I seen this at the EPA and Lockheed where private consultants woo goverment execs for all sorts of special favors which cost money. Then when renegotiation comes around it always costs more than thier "Bid" said (which is always erronious just to get the work) and the governemnt has no choice or all the upfront money is wasted so the administrators "give in". Then you have the problem of motive and accountability of results which I won't get into but to say it depends greatly whos in the white house what kind firms you hire and results you get back. Last you have PROFIT they must make which the goverment does'nt which is yet another expense.

No the government can be a slick well oiled machine...just look at the military or NASA but what you need is good people with job secuity (not afraid to blow the whistle) and responsible (to the people) administrators.

As far as religious orgs IMO it's a clear violation of chuch and state. ...yet another consititutional rapping by a pres. How could you be for it?

Edit: The best example of grift I ever saw was one goverment administrator who "selected" companies to do work selected one of his. Then, on this contract, he used governement resources from thousands of $110 filters, labor and instrumentation to do the work. Processed the results back though his company and was awarded a big fat tax payers check.

 

[Witling]

Zebo, I didn't know rescue missions, Catholic Relief, or the Salvation Army made profit. But I do appreciate your thoughtful reply. It has given me some new things to think about.

 

[conjur]

Faith-based initiatives.

I do have to agree that was a decent thing to do as many churches and other religious organizations are well-equipped for handling personal crises and dealing with humanitarian aid.

The war on terror

He took off after Al Qaeda with a vengeance. I was in tears listening to his first speech following the attacks when he almost cried, himself. I got chills watching him stand amongst the workers at Ground Zero. However, I feel his effort to oust Saddam weakened his resolve to continue going after bin Laden. If the resources put into Iraq were put into Afghanistan, then Afghanistan would not be ruled by warlords and would be well underway to recovery and bin Laden may even have been found and Al Qaeda further destroyed.

Bush's push for a capital gains tax cut

Bush's push for a repeal of the estate tax

Beefing up airport security

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Witling
Zebo, I didn't know rescue missions, Catholic Relief, or the Salvation Army made profit. But I do appreciate your thoughtful reply. It has given me some new things to think about.

Sure they do. But not as a company per se. Anyone remember the red crosses 9/11 fund which only a fraction of donations went to vitims of 9-11? Thier surplus/profit went to other non-designated relief in addition to 2+million dollar executive salaries. But it's fine with me if you wish to elimiate that point..

 

[heartsurgeon]

Bush hasn't proposed any TRUE medical malpractice reforms, what he has proposed is meaningless.
Passage of the medicare drug benefit was triangulation to take away a democrat bargaining chip, and also increases the deficit for a discretionary budget item. disapprove.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

What's wrong with Bush.

1. Dick Cheney. I really don't have a fondness for the guy. Bush could have done better - alot better.
2. Medicare Prescription Drug bill. - just more gov't BS. Yes it was a campaign promise, but IMO it's one he could have gotten away with not pursuing.
3. Has not cut spending. Yes, Congress does the spending and approves the budgets but I think we need to start cutting and cutting and cutting. He has resisted doing that so far.
4. Has not stepped up to the plate to fight the EU and WTO. It seems to me that Bush has sort of gone with the flow on these things when I think he should take the bull by the horns and drive the issue. Tell them that they are FOS and call them on their BS decisions.
5. Has not used the bully pulpit enough. He has both the Senate and Congress majorities. He has "given in" on the Judge issues when I think he should have pushed. He's already been "accused" of pushing a "rightwing" agenda but IMO he has not pushed hardly at all. He hasn't used the full extent of his power on the legislative front....yet - and I think he should have.

Those are my criticisms of Bush. There are more small specific criticisms but those are the main batch.

CkG

 

[amok]

Hehe, can we ignore Zebo's post, so that we libs don't lose before the first post by a conservative other than yourself alchemize?

1) Though I doubt his motives, I still applaud Bush for giving NASA a vision. I even applaud the fact that he hasn't offered much extra money to get it done. Its about time that NASA figured out how to do more with less. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention, and its time for NASA to put up or shut up.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

I've got no idea what a neocon is but i am an evangelical Christian.

1.) Bush has spent to much money, compassionate conservatism is bunk, "compassion" from the gov. should be left to the left
2.) I don't like his half-hearted stance on things like gay marriage; he's not thinking just trying to pander to people like me
3.) the 'patriot act' has many egregious assaults on our personal freedoms
4.) The tax cuts weren't attached to spending cuts, or at very least some zero based funding.
5.) He didn't secure anyone to pay for Iraq, last time japan put in a good deal of cash, we needed the same this time.
6.) He pretends that we didn't plan on attack ing Iraq before he was elected.. bunk
7.) This is kind of 'personal' but he makes all Texans sound stupid with how he says 'terrorist' 'tourist' and 'terror' 'Terra; I've got a feeling we're fighting Japanese people w/ cameras and dirt!
8.) He's lying to all of you about the real tax plan, I'll let you in on a secret delivered to me by sources that only people like me would ever hear: We are going to use the AMT to install a flat-tax system in his second term.
9.) Although i agree w/ the Afghanistan troop policy we did need to find better international funding for the country.
10.) The boarder is so porous it's silly; I don't care what they do, i just want to be able to get a job w/out being able to speak Spanish.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: amok
Hehe, can we ignore Zebo's post, so .

alright amok I'll play.

Bush never saw a spending bill he did'nt like...has zero vetos... I like just one, his education bill.

 

[fjord]

No BJ's in the Oval Office. This is a good thing.

 

[EXman]

No BJ's in the Oval Office. This is a good thing.

what a crime his daughters are cuties! not on him sickos

Anyhow I don't like.

Moon
Mars
Illegals flip flop
Defend boarders to open them up
not strong-arming to get his Judges in. (He should not have to anyhow)

 

[Jadow]

As a conservative, some things Bush has done that I don't like are:

1. Not assinated his political enemies
2. Hasn't cracked down enough on the liberal media.
3. He hasn't released his storm troopers yet.
4. He didn't irradiate the middle east and N. Korea

 

[Genesys]

things i dont like

1) medicare prescription bill
2) foreign worker bill
3) steel tarrifs
4) the stance he took on cloning and stem cell research
5) the ammount of money he's spending [its not very conservative]
6) no SS reform
7) has tried to befriend libs
8) hasnt tried hard enough to get his judges appointed

 

[digitalsm]

Im a republican and well

What I dont like:
No Child Left Behind, as do most republicans
Medicad/Medicare bill, as do most republicans
Not veto'ing any spending bills, as do most republicans
Guest Worker proposal, as do most republicans
gay marriage amendement proposal, sadly most republicans are for it, and heck alot of democrats are for amending state constitutiions to ban it as well.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: amok
Hehe, can we ignore Zebo's post, so that we libs don't lose before the first post by a conservative other than yourself alchemize?

1) Though I doubt his motives, I still applaud Bush for giving NASA a vision. I even applaud the fact that he hasn't offered much extra money to get it done. Its about time that NASA figured out how to do more with less. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention, and its time for NASA to put up or shut up.

Congress demanded NASA have a plan before they would be allowed to restart work on a shuttle replacement.

 

[AEB]

I am Conservative

Bush has let me down:
Opening the mexican border(both to uninsured trade trucks and non-citizen workers)
No child left behind, good idea bad implementation
Big government, what ever happend to states deciding issues!

 

[arsbanned]

Moderate here, registered Independent.

1.Bush seems willing to be more even-handed with regards to the Israelis than most admins. For that I applaud him.

2. Still waiting for 2.

 

[alchemize]

Zebo pushed the envelope a little bit, but we'll let it pass As did arsebanned. Fjord and Jadow don't count, they aren't regulars and are trolling...

PS on the "moderates" comments, I believe a lot of the folks who post on this board are pretty moderate, myself included. But what fun is there in arguing about the middle?

I declare it...a moderate tie!!! Now, did everyone need to wash out their mouths afterwards?