A case for religion, and against AA.

[Mai72]

People believe in a certain religion because this is what their family believes in. Most never take the time to experience other religions. They don't want to experience other religions because their whole identity could be threatened. So they shame other people into believing that they are doomed for hell or some other nonsense.

I was born and raised Catholic. I went to church on Sundays, and was an alter boy. When. I look back I was unintentionally being conditioned to believe a certain way. I don't blame anyone. It's just that my parents weren't worldly. They never traveled much so they didn't know any better. My religious beliefs have changed over the last few years because I had the unique opportunity to travel and live in SE Asia. When i lived in Bangkok, Thailand I was able to experience Buddhisim. It changed my perspective on religion.

Many young people are less likely to believe in religion because they have more choices now. The internet has changed how people think. It's huge. Young people are able to go online and do their own research on the pros and cons of their families religious beliefs. They can experience any religion in the safety of their room. This is something that I wish I had growing up.

 

[pmv]

What about slightly-crotchety atheism?

Your pink unicorn example is a bit silly, as, for one thing, nobody believes that, and for another, can you really say a belief that has no practical consequences is actually a belief at all, rather than just a string of words?

I don't think there's any identifiable thing you can call 'angry atheism'. How are you defining it?

As for what's wrong with 'polite religous belief' one could make an argument that 'polite religion' creates the conditions that produces and encourages the impolite religious folk, including those so rude as to blow people up in the name of their Gods. Once you start believing things that aren't true, there's a very high chance that either you or someone else will end up paying a price for the mismatch between your belief and reality.

Though, I'm not quite sure I believe that argument myself, because I have a deep sense that we _all_, even non religious people, believe things that aren't true or that can't be fully justified with rigorous reason and logic, because we kind of have to, to get through the day and our lives.

We are mostly constructed out of received culture and unexamined ideas. A true Mr Spock-like creature of pure logic would probably become paralyzed by rumination, doubt and lack of motivation and never manage to do anything at all (a closely related point is the fact that the intensely religious have more children than does anyone else).

So while I do kind of see religion as a moral failing and a sign of the flawed nature of human beings, I don't believe it will ever go away, or that it's reasonable to try and completely eradicate it, because we just aren't perfectable creatures. We have to live with our flawed nature.

 

[piasabird]

Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to anger. These two leave to violence created by ignorant people. They are the Mind Killer.

You can be full of intelligence and walk around trying to kill people or ruin other people's lives simply because they dont think and act exactly like you do. Instead be tollerant of other people and realize that your rights of freedom and speech depend on their rights. When you try to deny some group of people the right to freedom of speech or to practice their religion, then it is you that is the hate monger.

 

[swamplizard]

Ave',

God is not religious, She just smiles and admires the results of Her creation through evolution. Yes, She loves all.

 

[Caravaggio]

Ave',

God is not religious, She just smiles and admires the results of Her creation through evolution. Yes, She loves all.

'She who believes anything is thinking of nothing.'

(Wu Flun Dhung. Ancient Taoist mystic. Circa 738-685 BC)

 

[swamplizard]

'She who believes anything is thinking of nothing.'

(Wu Flun Dhung. Ancient Taoist mystic. Circa 738-685 BC)

Hi C.,

I have been blessed and cursed with a mind that never ceases to think.

I am.
God is.
Infinity is.

 

[Marius Dejess]

There is the need for mankind to distinguish between religion and God.

[Bolding by Marius Dejess]

For one, since both sides form part of the argument, you cant just tell atheists to be nice. The reality is that BOTH sides need to agree to be nice.

In any case, fiction or not, people judge, kill and main for their gods. They discriminate against people who are different in gender, race, sexual orientation, and religion. That creates more hate in this world, not less. Are you okay with your child hating others?

If religion did not harm others, sure, believe what you want. But its not atheism that causes discrimination against gay people. Its not atheism that threatens the death sentence for apostasy. Its not atheism that carries out terrorist attacks.

 

[Marius Dejess]

Please don't bring in gods, just keep to God Who is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

[Bolding by Marius Dejess]


I'll leave you with this quote which sums it up perfectly:


@Harabec

Usually I think debate between theists and atheists is impossible because we can't agree on several important facts, such as atheism not being a religion and not needing god or gods to be good.

 

[sandorski]

Please don't bring in gods, just keep to God Who is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

What god?
How do you know there is only 1?
How do you know there is any?

You boldy state things that can not be demonstrated to be factual, why?

 

[WelshBloke]

How do you know there is only 1?

Maybe it's like Highlander?

 

[Marius Dejess]

For the sake of economy, please just choose one of the gods you don't accept to exist; now, if you insist that you don't have to choose any because you don't believe in any. still you have to mention at least one in specific target that you don't accept to exist: otherwise you are not directed to any at all, and wherefore you are not being logical in your speech.

 

[Marius Dejess]

It's like this.

You say that you don't accept the existence of gods, but you will not mention at least one specific god you deny existence to: so it is obvious that you don't have any concept at all of what is a god or what is generically all gods. i.e. their common denominator.

 

[WelshBloke]

For the sake of economy, please just choose one of the gods you don't accept to exist; now, if you insist that you don't have to choose any because you don't believe in any. still you have to mention at least one in specific target that you don't accept to exist: otherwise you are not directed to any at all, and wherefore you are not being logical in your speech.

What?

That's the main difference between being an Atheist and a Theist.

An Atheist doesn't believe in any gods and a Theist doesn't believe in any except the ones that he does.

 

[Marius Dejess]

Okay, you as an atheist you don't accept all gods whatever.

But as a theist I am asking you to tell me what is your concept of gods, so that I will know that you get my God included among all gods you deny to exist: if you don't have a concept of gods, how can you be sure that you have included all gods, including mine?

So, to be logical in your speech you have to inform me what you know to be the concept generically of gods.

Let us say that you don't believe in medicines, and I am an advocate of medicines; so I ask you, Do you know what is a medicine, for if you cannot tell me what you know to be a medicine, then I will tell you that you are not dis-believing correctly .

And that is being illogical in your speech.

What?

That's the main difference between being an Atheist and a Theist.

An Atheist doesn't believe in any gods and a Theist doesn't believe in any except the ones that he does.

 

[WelshBloke]

Okay, you as an atheist you don't accept all gods whatever.

But as a theist I am asking you to tell me what is your concept of gods, so that I will know that you get my God included among all gods you deny to exist: if you don't have a concept of gods, how can you be sure that you have included all gods, including mine?

For simplicities sake I'll go with numbers 1 and 2 here...

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/god

If that includes yours is up to you.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

...so that I will know that you get my God included among all gods you deny to exist

Your what?

if you don't have a concept of gods, how can you be sure that you have included all gods, including mine?

This betrays such blind thinking it is disheartening to see it.

Ask yourself, how can you be sure you have included all the conceivable concepts of the tatzelwurm to say that you do not believe it exists?

What about Djinns? Are you sure you don't believe they exist? Maybe you're not including MY concept of Djinns. Are you?

So, to be logical in your speech you have to inform me what you know to be the concept generically of gods.

No, that's not how it works. You have this word "god" that you keep using. I know the ways in which you use it, and I probably know many of the things you believe about it, but there is no actual evidence that it has any instance in reality.

Let us say that you don't believe in medicines, and I am an advocate of medicines; so I ask you, Do you know what is a medicine, for if you cannot tell me what you know to be a medicine, then I will tell you that you are not dis-believing correctly .

I do believe in medicines that can be shown to work.

And that is being illogical in your speech.

I think you're just throwing around the word "logical" and it's various permutations to make your argument appear intelligent, and I say that because you're not really using it correctly.

 

[nakedfrog]

For the sake of economy, please just choose one of the gods you don't accept to exist; now, if you insist that you don't have to choose any because you don't believe in any. still you have to mention at least one in specific target that you don't accept to exist: otherwise you are not directed to any at all, and wherefore you are not being logical in your speech.

:lol:
Please kindly provide a checklist of all potential deities to ensure the posters here can fully comply.
Just ensure that you include a "select all" option.

 

[Mai72]

I look around at christmas and halloween and easter and I think everyone is nuts. As long as people get free stuff they dont care what lie they have to believe in. Giant bunny, Santa Clause magic snowmen witches and ghosts. It is all possible. What a joke. Time to put up the lights honey.

That's why I'm waiting on the big flood to wipe out humanity.

God said so!

 

[flexy]

I look around at christmas and halloween and easter and I think everyone is nuts. As long as people get free stuff they dont care what lie they have to believe in. Giant bunny, Santa Clause magic snowmen witches and ghosts. It is all possible. What a joke. Time to put up the lights honey.

Stupid comparison. Who, except small children, believes in the existence of the Easter Bunny, Santa, "snowmen, witches and ghosts"?

I am not religious but I don't think anything is wrong with tradition or folklore if you will, even "silly" ones, it enriches a culture.