A case for religion, and against AA.

[sandorski]

From 1840 onward, Millerism was transformed from an "obscure, regional movement into a national campaign.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millerism#A_national_movement

It doesn't take movements long to becomes religions, with many denominations..

Just sayin'...

Civil Rights was a Movement, still not a Religion. Just sayin.

 

[Retro Rob]

Civil Rights was a Movement, still not a Religion. Just sayin.

Touche'.

But clearly, our definitions aren't absolute.

 

[witeken]

Uhh..no one is confusing science and religion. Secondly, I'm even less interested in watching three advocates of atheism pat each other on the back.

I think it's a very interesting and informative debate. And yes I think some are confusing science and religion and other similar things. Like norseamd:

"The same way most Atheists embrace scientific journals and books written by scientists and others who agree with there belief system..."

 

[witeken]

I don't know why is it so hard for atheists to admit that it's becoming more and more Evangelistic.

There is nothing wrong with this. I watched The Unbelievers last night, and that's exactly what they're doing. Krauss and Dawkins went from city to city, one country to another country, promoting their world-view. Channels are popping up as well.

I simply think atheism is changing into a movement, and individual atheists are in denial about this.

Yeah, and they're doing that because religion makes people think evolution is wrong etc.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with informing the general public about science. If you've watched the movie, you should probably know why. That doesn't make it religion.

And it isn't even a world view (which you say is what they are promoting). A world view implies opinion. Science isn't an opinion.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Yeah, and they're doing that because religion makes people think evolution is wrong etc. <--- I seriousdly doubt that,,,they are doing that to promote Atheism...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with informing the general public about science. If you've watched the movie, you should probably know why. That doesn't make it religion.
There absolutely nothing wrong with Christians informing the public about the Bible.... if you watched the movie....

And it isn't even a world view (which you say is what they are promoting). A world view implies opinion. Science isn't an opinion. Christianity is not a world view......A world view does not have to imply opinion...Atheism is an alternate opinion contrary to Christian beliefs......do you how big the atheism movement is throughout the world??

I bet if we wanted to we could list all the evangelists of the Atheist "movement"......

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I don't know why is it so hard for atheists to admit that it's becoming more and more Evangelistic.

That's because there is no "it." Atheism is not a worldview. It is not a religion. It is not a movement. It is a characteristic of many worldviews. You might say that philosophical naturalism is becoming more evangelical. That's an atheistic worldview. Maybe its true of secular humanism, too. When you make this claim just about atheism, however, you are only revealing your own pathetic ignorance.

There is nothing wrong with this. I watched The Unbelievers last night, and that's exactly what they're doing. Krauss and Dawkins went from city to city, one country to another country, promoting their world-view. Channels are popping up as well.

I simply think atheism is changing into a movement, and individual atheists are in denial about this.

It is really, really saddening how consistently wrong you are.

 

[Retro Rob]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with informing the general public about science. If you've watched the movie, you should probably know why. That doesn't make it religion.

They're not informing the world about science....they're promoting an atheistic world-view.

I definitely don't need atheism, nor need to be an atheist, to appreciate science.

One of the world's top scientists is Francis Collins, an Evangelical Christian. He contributes greatly to science, and converted FROM atheism to Christianity.

 

[JEDIYoda]

That's because there is no "it." Atheism is not a worldview. It is not a religion. It is not a movement. It is a characteristic of many worldviews. You might say that philosophical naturalism is becoming more evangelical. That's an atheistic worldview. Maybe its true of secular humanism, too. When you make this claim just about atheism, however, you are only revealing your own pathetic ignorance.

Play games with words all you want -- your just flat out wrong!

It`s a characteristic of many world views.....sorry that's like the pot calling the kettle black.....more atheist talking point supported only by word games!!

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Play games with words all you want -- your just flat out wrong!

It`s a characteristic of many world views.....sorry that's like the pot calling the kettle black.....more atheist talking point supported only by word games!!

Do you have the faintest idea what you're talking about?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Do you have the faintest idea what you're talking about?

It would appear that I have more of an idea than you do.....still playing word games and in denial I see...

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

It would appear that I have more of an idea than you do.....still playing word games and in denial I see...

I'll take that as a "no."

 

[JEDIYoda]

I'll take that as a "no."

perceive it as you please.....there is no explaining away via word games or Atheist talking points the FACT that it appears that slowly but surely Atheism is taking on the form of being a "RELIGION"....I know the truth must really hurt!!

 

[JD50]

Everybody of course......duh

No, I mean who are those 3 people. I'm an atheist and I have never hears of these people.

 

[JD50]

I don't know why is it so hard for atheists to admit that it's becoming more and more Evangelistic.

There is nothing wrong with this. I watched The Unbelievers last night, and that's exactly what they're doing. Krauss and Dawkins went from city to city, one country to another country, promoting their world-view. Channels are popping up as well.

I simply think atheism is changing into a movement, and individual atheists are in denial about this.

A movement is not a religion.

I see sandorski already beat me to it.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

perceive it as you please.....there is no explaining away via word games or Atheist talking points the FACT that it appears that slowly but surely Atheism is taking on the form of being a "RELIGION"....I know the truth must really hurt!!

Actual facts do not need to be emphasized with all capital letters and exclamation points.

You've provided absolutely no counter-argument whatsoever, and instead you're frantically gainsaying the real facts presented in my argument.

I mean this in all sincerity: I think you are having the opposite effect of your intentions when you post on this forum. That is to say, your posts only serve to make your opponents' arguments look better by comparison.

If only I could believe you might take that advice to heart...

 

[witeken]

No, I mean who are those 3 people. I'm an atheist and I have never hears of these people.

Daniel Dennett and Lawrence Krauss, don't know the third person.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Actual facts do not need to be emphasized with all capital letters and exclamation points.

You've provided absolutely no counter-argument whatsoever, and instead you're frantically gainsaying the real facts presented in my argument.

I mean this in all sincerity: I think you are having the opposite effect of your intentions when you post on this forum. That is to say, your posts only serve to make your opponents' arguments look better by comparison.

If only I could believe you might take that advice to heart...

again that's the best you can do that is OK..God will forgive you....

You posting your diatribe atheistic talking points and playing word games cannot possibly help you promote the cause of Atheism....

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

again that's the best you can do that is OK..God will forgive you....

You posting your diatribe atheistic talking points and playing word games cannot possibly help you promote the cause of Atheism....

Pearls before swine, I suppose.

By all means, carry on, then. :whiste:

 

[RandomWords]

Put simply: people will always discriminate and hate other people - whether they can blame it on religion or not. There will always be cultures that try and overtake another; people who feel superior; people who don't accept different people; people who crave power; people who want things that other people have and will take them... etc.

Getting rid of religion would not decrease this discrimination - people would still hate and then there will be something other people blamed their hate on (ie: history lessons, video games, movies... etc) and then a figurative "war against whatever it is" in order to get rid of it... we all like to believe in the goodness of humanity... perhaps that is the fairy tale we should be doing away with.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Put simply: people will always discriminate and hate other people - whether they can blame it on religion or not. There will always be cultures that try and overtake another; people who feel superior; people who don't accept different people; people who crave power; people who want things that other people have and will take them... etc.

Getting rid of religion would not decrease this discrimination - people would still hate and then there will be something other people blamed their hate on (ie: history lessons, video games, movies... etc) and then a figurative "war against whatever it is" in order to get rid of it... we all like to believe in the goodness of humanity... perhaps that is the fairy tale we should be doing away with.

So what you are saying is that if everybody in the world was an Atheist and there was no belief in God or a God the world still would not be a better place??

 

[norseamd]

So what you are saying is that if everybody in the world was an Atheist and there was no belief in God or a God the world still would not be a better place??

yes

and the same if everyone was christian or confucian

 

[justoh]

yes

and the same if everyone was christian or confucian

What about muslim?

 

[JEDIYoda]

What about muslim?

There is always one in the crowd just like those idiotic questions about the bible......
Contents [hide]
What about Buddhism?
What about Bahá'í Faith?
What about Korean shamanism?
What about Jainism?
What about Cheondoism?
What about Hoahaoism?
What about Tenriism?
What about Sikhism?

 

[Retro Rob]

So what you are saying is that if everybody in the world was an Atheist and there was no belief in God or a God the world still would not be a better place??

Of course, godlessness has proven to be no better:

 

[sandorski]

Put simply: people will always discriminate and hate other people - whether they can blame it on religion or not. There will always be cultures that try and overtake another; people who feel superior; people who don't accept different people; people who crave power; people who want things that other people have and will take them... etc.

Getting rid of religion would not decrease this discrimination - people would still hate and then there will be something other people blamed their hate on (ie: history lessons, video games, movies... etc) and then a figurative "war against whatever it is" in order to get rid of it... we all like to believe in the goodness of humanity... perhaps that is the fairy tale we should be doing away with.

The basic impulses to cause harm would still be there. However, the sacred texts encouraging harm would not. As the Western World moved away from Religion, all sorts of harm was reduced as well. I suspect a Religion free world would further improve on that.

That said, a certain amount of harm will always exist within society. Also, I doubt religion could be eliminated anyway. What motivates me is to at least affect the Religion we have in such a way that it continues to moderate.