A case for religion, and against AA.

[JEDIYoda]

These things are learning experiences. They are practice for developing critical thinking skills.

hahahahaaaaaa...yeah right...go on believeing...rofl!!!!!!!

 

[SMOGZINN]

What evidence do you have that God and Jesus do not exist?

The exact same as evidence that Santa does not exist.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I believe almost all of us are atheist. Some people are just smart enough to realize it and able to come to terms with it. But if the christians who claim they believe in their god and heaven actually did believe, I think they'd pray more when they're sick and see the doctor less. Worst thing that happens is your god doesn't want you in heaven yet so he'll heal you so you can continue doing his work on this planet. Best case is he'll call you to heaven where you can chill with loved ones who already are there and you'll be able to meet the big guy himself, you'll get to hang out with the most amazing being in this or any other universe.

But most people who claim they believe sure do try and do every and anything they possibly can to extend their miserable existence on this planet, like they don't really believe that b.s. or something... lots of people claim they believe in heaven, yet no one seems to be in a hurry to get there.

 

[moonbogg]

I believe almost all of us are atheist. Some people are just smart enough to realize it and able to come to terms with it. But if the christians who claim they believe in their god and heaven actually did believe, I think they'd pray more when they're sick and see the doctor less. Worst thing that happens is your god doesn't want you in heaven yet so he'll heal you so you can continue doing his work on this planet. Best case is he'll call you to heaven where you can chill with loved ones who already are there and you'll be able to meet the big guy himself, you'll get to hang out with the most amazing being in this or any other universe.

But most people who claim they believe sure do try and do every and anything they possibly can to extend their miserable existence on this planet, like they don't really believe that b.s. or something... lots of people claim they believe in heaven, yet no one seems to be in a hurry to get there.

That's because they don't actually think its true, and they have no reason to actually think its true. They just like pretending, you know, like the UFO crowd.

 

[Retro Rob]

The exact same as evidence that Santa does not exist.

There is no evidence Santa doesn't exist. No one ever said he was real anyway.

Secondly, if there is no evidence for God, then that means there's no evidence for atheism -- you could very well be living a fantasy, holding on to a delusion that there is no God.

Just think about that for a second.

 

[Retro Rob]

I believe almost all of us are atheist.

Negative. I do not lack belief in God.

Some people are just smart enough to realize it and able to come to terms with it. But if the christians who claim they believe in their god and heaven actually did believe, I think they'd pray more when they're sick and see the doctor less.

Who said that Christians cannot go to doctors because they believe in God?

Terrible strawman.

But most people who claim they believe sure do try and do every and anything they possibly can to extend their miserable existence on this planet, like they don't really believe that b.s. or something... lots of people claim they believe in heaven, yet no one seems to be in a hurry to get there.

LOL -- this is just ignorant. People aren't in a rush to "get there" because humans are wired to naturally want to live and survive. No one wants to die, not even you.

Why should Christians, who are afterall human, be any different?

 

[dphantom]

The exact same as evidence that Santa does not exist.

And that is what? You made an assertion and I am interested in what factual evidence you have that makes your assertion true. If it is simply your opinion, then you may say that. But it also means your assertion is false.

 

[Retro Rob]

And that is what? You made an assertion and I am interested in what factual evidence you have that makes your assertion true. If it is simply your opinion, then you may say that. But it also means your assertion is false.

Nothing, as he has no evidence. I think he knew that before he even posted that rubbish, hence, his Santa reference.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Negative. I do not lack belief in God.



Who said that Christians cannot go to doctors because they believe in God?

Terrible strawman.




LOL -- this is just ignorant. People aren't in a rush to "get there" because humans are wired to naturally want to live and survive. No one wants to die, not even you.

Why should Christians, who are afterall human, be any different?

Why are YOU so afraid to die if your belief in heaven and a christian god is not lacking? Why do you prolong your life here? I'm not saying go kill yourself, as that would be a sin. I'm saying use the power of prayer (the bible does have quite a few stories about how powerful prayer is.. it can "move mountains") to let your god decide. Either you'll be here to continue doing his work or you'll be called to heaven. It is a win/win if you really believe what you say you do.

Since you said you're human and don't want to die, you sound to me like you have some doubts. Of course *I* don't want to die, I'm not sure where you were going with that. I am atheist and believe this is my one shot at experiencing life, I'm not looking forward to that ending. So my desire to not die makes perfect sense. But what's your excuse if you believe this amazing paradise of never ending life with the most supreme being in existence is just on the other side?

 

[dphantom]

Why are YOU so afraid to die if your belief in heaven and a christian god is not lacking? Why do you prolong your life here? I'm not saying go kill yourself, as that would be a sin. I'm saying use the power of prayer (the bible does have quite a few stories about how powerful prayer is.. it can "move mountains") to let your god decide. Either you'll be here to continue doing his work or you'll be called to heaven. It is a win/win if you really believe what you say you do.

Since you said you're human and don't want to die, you sound to me like you have some doubts. Of course *I* don't want to die, I'm not sure where you were going with that. I am atheist and believe this is my one shot at experiencing life, I'm not looking forward to that ending. So my desire to not die makes perfect sense. But what's your excuse if you believe this amazing paradise of never ending life with the most supreme being in existence is just on the other side?

I can only speak for myself, but why would I pray when God will already decide when it is my time? Sounds kinda redundant. In the meantime, I will fulfill his mission for me as best I can, however imperfectly that may be, while I am on this Earth.

 

[Retro Rob]

Why are YOU so afraid to die if your belief in heaven and a christian god is not lacking?

What are you talking about? Not wanting to die doesn't mean you're afraid to die.

In fact, by believing that they'll go to Heaven, most Christians don't fear death because they believe they'll be rewarded afterwards...they do, however, accept the inevitable eventuality of death.

You have no clue what you're talking about, which is why your previous post was "ignorant".

Why do you prolong your life here? I'm not saying go kill yourself, as that would be a sin. I'm saying use the power of prayer (the bible does have quite a few stories about how powerful prayer is.. it can "move mountains") to let your god decide. Either you'll be here to continue doing his work or you'll be called to heaven. It is a win/win if you really believe what you say you do.

You seriously need a Bible educational course.

Since you said you're human and don't want to die, you sound to me like you have some doubts to me.

My "not wanting" to die has nothing to do with "doubts"...it has everything to do with being human. You and I want to live for the same reason 99 percent of the world's popluation wants to live.

Of course *I* don't want to die, I'm not sure where you were going with that.

My point was that Christians want to live for the same reasons you do. You're trying to divorce being Christian from wanting to enjoy living...I find that highly disingenuous.

I am atheist and believe this is my one shot at experiencing life, I'm not looking forward to that ending. So my desire to not die makes perfect sense.

So let me get this straight: A Christian should look forward to their life ending, because of....

...this amazing paradise of never ending life with the most supreme being in existence is just on the other side?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

A crime against God, an infinite being, is a crime that requires infinite punishment.

Absurd. Nothing is "required" for an omnipotent universe-creator. If it is a fact that an infinite punishment is the consequence for "a crime against God," it is only true because this God has arbitrarily made it so. There is no reason why it could not have been different.

And in what sense is this God "infinite"? Is he countably infinite or uncountably infinite? When you answer be sure to describe your method of differentiation.

 

[SMOGZINN]

There is no evidence Santa doesn't exist. No one ever said he was real anyway.

Of course they did. As a kid I was presented with proof that Santa exists. I believed in that proof because it came from authority figures. I went about my life acting as if there was a Santa. I believed in him and therefore I did things that my authority figures told me would please Santa. Over time I began to see that some of the properties of this Santa were not consistent with my observations of the effects of Santa. No matter how hard I tried I could not witness flying reindeer. The number of inconsistencies in people’s stories grew. Eventually I decided on my own that this Santa character was not real.

Secondly, if there is no evidence for God, then that means there's no evidence for atheism -- you could very well be living a fantasy, holding on to a delusion that there is no God.

Atheism - not believing in something - does not need evidence. It is not something, it is the lack of something. It is just the name for people that don't believe. But you know that. This has been explained to you many times. I can only assume you are trolling.

And that is what? You made an assertion and I am interested in what factual evidence you have that makes your assertion true. If it is simply your opinion, then you may say that. But it also means your assertion is false.

There is no evidence that anything does not exist. I can’t prove the non-existence of unicorns, orbital tea pots, flying spaghetti monsters, or good pop songs. There is no way to prove the non-existence of a thing. Even the concept of trying to find proof of not-something is absurd. What evidence could one produce to prove not-something?

I can prove something exists. That I have in abundance. I can prove all sorts of things exist. From public pay phones, to AMD processors, to neutinos (a particle so non-existant that it can pass though the entire planet with out effecting anything), there is proof they existence. So, when faced with the question of does something exist I look for evidence that it does. If I can't find that I have to put it in the tenitive catagory of 'probably does not exist'.

 

[sandorski]

There is no evidence Santa doesn't exist. No one ever said he was real anyway.

Secondly, if there is no evidence for God, then that means there's no evidence for atheism -- you could very well be living a fantasy, holding on to a delusion that there is no God.

Just think about that for a second.

If there's no Evidence for "God", then there does not need to be Evidence for Atheism.

Think about that for a minute.

 

[Retro Rob]

If there's no Evidence for "God", then there does not need to be Evidence for Atheism.

Think about that for a minute.

Consider this: If I cannot provide evidence for the existence of God, then by default, there is no evidence to disprove his existence...not saying you have to disprove God.

At that point, "God doesn't exist" is an assertion based on faith just like my positive assertion because evidence to the contrary hasn't been presented.

In short, atheism is a faith, because if God does exists and evidence does come to light, your denial is disproven.

Your view can be disproven, hence, why atheism is a faith like anything else under the Sun.

 

[sandorski]

Consider this: If I cannot provide evidence for the existence of God, then by default, there is no evidence to disprove his existence...

No, by default, there is no reason to Believe it exists.

 

[dphantom]

These things are learning experiences. They are practice for developing critical thinking skills.
Children are told that these things are real, but as they gain life experiences they start to realize that what they know of the Santa or the Easter Bunny does not fit into what they know of the world, and so they start to doubt. Many parents create elaborate stories to try and maintain the ruse, but eventually the child’s skepticism wins out and they stop believing.

The Jesus/God myth should be the same thing, but for some reason people keep believing in that one even after they have seen plenty of evidence that it is not real.

This is what you said that I am interested in. What evidence do you have that proves Jesus is a myth?

 

[soulcougher73]

This is what you said that I am interested in. What evidence do you have that proves Jesus is a myth?

Burden of proof is on those making the positive claim. Everyone knows this.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Consider this: If I cannot provide evidence for the existence of God, then by default, there is no evidence to disprove his existence...not saying you have to disprove God.

Okay, so we agree that you can neither prove nor disprove the existance of God.

At that point, "God doesn't exist" is an assertion based on faith

No one is asserting 'Not God' they are simply not asserting 'God'.

just like my positive assertion because evidence to the contrary hasn't been presented.

Evidence to the contrary is not needed. One minus one equals zero, not negitive one.

In short, atheism is a faith, because if God does exists and evidence does come to light, your denial is disproven.

No, there is no assertion of Not God. Negative assertions are not even possible. This is the same concept as Zero. Zero is not a positive number.

Your view can be disproven, hence, why atheism is a faith like anything else under the Sun.

Things that can be disproven is called science. Things that can not be disproven is called faith. Atheism is neither. It is a lack of faith. If the existance of a God were proven then those without faith in said God would still be atheists.

 

[Retro Rob]

Burden of proof is on the positive claim. Everyone knows this.

Not according to SMOGZINN:

The Jesus/God myth should be the same thing, but for some reason people keep believing in that one even after they have seen plenty of evidence that it is not real.

...and then he completely contradicts himself after he's called out on his BS:

There is no evidence that anything does not exist. I can’t prove the non-existence of unicorns, orbital tea pots, flying spaghetti monsters, or good pop songs. There is no way to prove the non-existence of a thing. Even the concept of trying to find proof of not-something is absurd. What evidence could one produce to prove not-something?

The funny thing is that atheists can't simply keep their mouths shut as they constantly assert "you cannot prove a negative", yet they always try.

You either can or cannot prove a negative. The more you try, the more you'll contradict yourself. You cannot assert that my beliefs are absurd, then run behind the wall of "not proving a negative" when you're call out on your BS.

 

[Retro Rob]

Things that can be disproven is called science. Things that can not be disproven is called faith. Atheism is neither. It is a lack of faith. If the existance of a God were proven then those without faith in said God would still be atheists.

I did not say God can be disproven, Einstein, I said "your view" can be disproven, which it can.

 

[SMOGZINN]

This is what you said that I am interested in. What evidence do you have that proves Jesus is a myth?

It is just like the Santa story. I never found any positive proof that Santa does not exist. What would such evidence even look like? All I can do if find that evidence that I thought supported Santa is not true. As the evidence supporting Santa crumbled so did my belief.
The same thing is true for Jesus. The evidence that people use to claim his existence are not very compelling. So, as I searched and failed to find compelling evidence, and the evidence that I thought I knew turned out to be false, so my belief in the existence of a Jesus waned.

This is what is supposed to happen. When the evidence does not support the conclusion you abandon the conclusion, not the evidence.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Not according to SMOGZINN:

...and then he completely contradicts himself after he's called out on his BS:

You are completely right. I used the word evidence incorrectly in that situation. What I should have said in that sentence was not evidence but arguments.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I did not say God can be disproven, Einstein, I said "your view" can be disproven, which it can.

To prove 'my view' wrong you have to prove god exists. Unless you can find a way to disprove my view without proving the other view then I think the two are logical equivalent.

 

[dphantom]

It is just like the Santa story. I never found any positive proof that Santa does not exist. What would such evidence even look like? All I can do if find that evidence that I thought supported Santa is not true. As the evidence supporting Santa crumbled so did my belief.
The same thing is true for Jesus. The evidence that people use to claim his existence are not very compelling. So, as I searched and failed to find compelling evidence, and the evidence that I thought I knew turned out to be false, so my belief in the existence of a Jesus waned.

This is what is supposed to happen. When the evidence does not support the conclusion you abandon the conclusion, not the evidence.

so you found evidence but did not "believe" it hence you reject it and believe there is no God.