A case for religion, and against AA.

[soulcougher73]

lol, wtf is happening here?

Not sure. Think he has a few screws lose.

Shit is funny though.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Are you married?

If you are, are all other men/women bad spouses, and untrustworthy, unworthy? That's essentially what you're saying by choosing the one you chose.

Why should that be any different than what you're attributing to me?

A) Pizza is my favorite food I've tried, but I could be wrong, there could be other even better foods.

B) Pizza is the one and only true food and no other food exists.

Rob, these are not the same thing.

 

[Retro Rob]

The problem is that it's really a terrible analogy and the two are in no way similar. I have not claimed that my wife is the best ever, and that there couldn't possibly be another women out there that is better than her. I freely admit that there probably is someone out there that would be better for me, and I'm sure there's someone out there for my wife that she might be happier with.

The point is, choosing A over B is no way saying that B is wrong, terrible, bad, and needs to be proven as such before you can choose "A".

I gave the marriage analogy to show why that line of reasoning is flawed because if what you say is true, it would be universal....but since it isn't universal, it isn't "true".

You'd have to throw out certain parts of it to as it applies to marriage to make it work for religion and God, which is what you did, and why you're wrong.

 

[JD50]

Seriously, I have never seen someone have such a difficult time with analogies. Whether it's coming up with his own or understanding what other people are saying... it's unbelievable.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Can we all just agree Rob. M is a troll and forget about him. I mean he doesnt even try. He argues from points no rational person would ever make. He cant make or understand an analogy to save his life from a fiery hell. It's like talking to a 3 year old or something. It's like pulling teeth to get him to answer a question, all he does is try to deflect them back or move the goal post.

Today's posts were making me wonder if he's actually an anti-theist employing satire. Glad I'm not the only one that thought his posts were a bit 'off'.

 

[soulcougher73]

What is Rob even trying to argue anymore? Think he lost me somewhere.

 

[JD50]

The point is, choosing A over B is no way saying that B is wrong, terrible, bad, and needs to be proven as such before you can choose "A".

I gave the marriage analogy to show why that line of reasoning is flawed because if what you say is true, it would be universal....but since it isn't universal, it isn't "true".

You'd have to throw out certain parts of it to make it work for religion and God, which is what you did, and why you're wrong.

With regards to the bold, you're right and I completely agree with you. However, you're saying that your god is the one true god. That is more than simply choosing one god over another.

Edit - BTW, I think you understand the difference as well because you conveniently stopped saying "best" and went with "choose" with regards to the house analogy.

 

[Retro Rob]

Seriously, I have never seen someone have such a difficult time with analogies. Whether it's coming up with his own or understanding what other people are saying... it's unbelievable.

You're changing the rules, as your original point can only apply to religion. Can't win when people change the rules of how and what certain viewpoints can only apply to.

 

[JD50]

You're changing the rules, as your original point can only apply to religion. Can't win when people change the rules of how and what certain viewpoints can only apply to.

What are you talking about? I didn't change any rules. My original point applies to plenty of things besides religion.

Edit - I will give you that people very rarely make such a wild claim like "one true god" outside of religion. There's a reason for that.

 

[Retro Rob]

With regards to the bold, you're right and I completely agree with you. However, you're saying that your god is the one true god. That is more than simply choosing one god over another.

Edit - BTW, I think you understand the difference as well because you conveniently stopped saying "best" and went with "choose" with regards to the house analogy.

Ok. If you believe evolution is the truth as regards the origin of man, shouldn't you thus have to proven every supernatural creation story false?

In the name of consistency, you do, right? If not, why?

 

[sandorski]

Ok. If you believe evolution is the truth as regards the origin of man, shouldn't you thus have to proven every supernatural creation story false?

In the name of consistency, you do, right? If not, why?

No. You are seeing this/that discussion completely backwards. My mind is now full of fuck.

 

[JD50]

Ok. If you believe evolution is the truth as regards the origin of man, shouldn't you thus have to proven every supernatural creation story false?

In the name of consistency, you do, right? If not, why?

You don't have to prove every supernatural creation story false, but you do need to give a reason why evolution is a better explanation than whatever supernatural claim you come up with, and provide evidence to support your claim. If there's evidence for a competing theory, scientists jump at the chance to investigate it and revise their theory. This is how science works.

This is basically what people have been asking of you. You claim that your god is the one true god. We'd just like to see evidence that shows that your god is more believable than the thousands of other gods throughout time.

Edit - This is supposing that you have evidence to back up your supernatural theory, if you have no evidence than obviously it's a waste of time.

 

[Retro Rob]

You don't have to prove every supernatural creation story false, but you do need to give a reason why evolution is a better explanation than whatever supernatural claim you come up with, and provide evidence to support your claim. If there's evidence for a competing theory, scientists jump at the chance to investigate it and revise their theory. This is how science works.

This is basically what people have been asking of you. You claim that your god is the one true god. We'd just like to see evidence that shows that your god is more believable than the thousands of other gods throughout time.

Fair point. And fwiw, I was speaking from a "logically consistent" pov, not a scientific one, before Sandorski's little head explodes.

 

[PowerEngineer]

You don't have to prove every supernatural creation story false, but you do need to give a reason why evolution is a better explanation than whatever supernatural claim you come up with, and provide evidence to support your claim. If there's evidence for a competing theory, scientists jump at the chance to investigate it and revise their theory. This is how science works.

This is basically what people have been asking of you. You claim that your god is the one true god. We'd just like to see evidence that shows that your god is more believable than the thousands of other gods throughout time.

Fair point. And fwiw, I was speaking from a "logically consistent" pov, not a scientific one, before Sandorski's little head explodes.

I'm glad to see that JD50 has come up with the right words to get this point across to you. Many others, myself included, have been trying to do this through postings across several threads. Your "fair point" is worthy of bookmarking.

And FWIW, I don't think you're a troll. I do think that you frequently make arguments designed to earn what you think are debating points rather than advance the discussion and understanding of ideas, but you're hardly alone in this.

The increasing number of quick retorts and name calling sadly show that this forum is sinking back toward the OT level.

 

[ThinClient]

Ok. If you believe evolution is the truth as regards the origin of man, shouldn't you thus have to proven every supernatural creation story false?

In the name of consistency, you do, right? If not, why?

No. It's been said to you time and time again that you can't prove negative statements. You don't prove something false, you scrutinize the evidence supplied to support the positive claim. If the evidence is found to be false, then the claim is false. If the evidence is true, then the claim is true. If there is no evidence whatsoever, like in every single supernatural creation story EVER, then the initial positive claim is bogus.

Klingons are real space aliens that fly around in space ships!

Where's your evidence?

Oh, I don't have any.

Well then shut the fuck up and sit down and stop spreading lies.




Now replace the klingons in spaceships claim with the claim that god exists and the above sentences remain reasonable and rational.

 

[JEDIYoda]

No. It's been said to you time and time again that you can't prove negative statements. You don't prove something false, you scrutinize the evidence supplied to support the positive claim. If the evidence is found to be false, then the claim is false. If the evidence is true, then the claim is true. If there is no evidence whatsoever, like in every single supernatural creation story EVER, then the initial positive claim is bogus.

Klingons are real space aliens that fly around in space ships!

Where's your evidence?

Oh, I don't have any.

Well then shut the fuck up and sit down and stop spreading lies.




Now replace the klingons in spaceships claim with the claim that god exists and the above sentences remain reasonable and rational.

here we go again -- same old Atheist talking points....yawn!!!

 

[SlowSpyder]

here we go again -- same old Atheist talking points....yawn!!!

Some people repeat things that are very similar to other things that have already been said because they make sense. And some people defend rape, slavery and genocide. Different strokes I guess.

 

[dphantom]

Some people repeat things that are very similar to other things that have already been said because they make sense. And some people defend rape, slavery and genocide. Different strokes I guess.

No Christian ever defends such heinous acts. Nor any other decent moral person, atheist or otherwise.

 

[dphantom]

Some people repeat things that are very similar to other things that have already been said because they make sense. And some people defend rape, slavery and genocide. Different strokes I guess.

Plus this is a discussion forum. I would respectfully ask you to keep such comments for OT where they are more appropriate or P&N. We can disagree about a topic but to accuse anyone here of such an awful thing is simply disgusting and indicates a very ignorant bias of the accuser.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Some people repeat things that are very similar to other things that have already been said because they make sense. And some people defend rape, slavery and genocide. Different strokes I guess

as

dphantom said -- No Christian ever defends such heinous acts! Nor any decent moral person, atheist or other wise .

Yet and this is the sad part of the whole thing -- I posted a response to you about the verses in numbers that you asked about.....but the sad part is that you were going to make the accusations that you have made regardless of what I posted.......

let us simplify an answer to rape and slavery and genocide...

God doesnt allow nor does he approve of rape. slavery or genocide!
Atheists love to take the 'stories" out of context due to a lack of understanding.

For example, God sends the israelites to kill the whole town of canaanites.
People take this as genocide.
When in reality, the cannanites were very bad people, they were drunks, acted on beastiality, performed human sacrifice, and they took over the holy land in which they were allowed 400 years to leave.
It was Gods way of judging them by using the israelites to take back their land. he even told them to offer peace and only kill the soldiers who stayed behind.
So it wasnt a genocide but the israelites taking back their land while casting judgement on these very very bad people. you can do research on them and see how bad they were, they were not innocent.

That is just one of many many misunderstandings of how ignorant atheists are when it comes to the bible. they cherry pick the verses, take them out of context, and use it against christians. when it just makes them look foolish.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/slavery_bible.html -- slavery

It really does not matter what is posted concerning anything that has to do with God the Bible, rape, slavery or genocide......

You will still show up with the same foolish responses!!

Have a nice week.....

 

[OverVolt]

I re-visit the thread from time and time and just say the same thing to myself. All these threads devolve into the same thing. All the Atheists just making it up as they go along. Nothing they say has any bearing on reality. Its a little crazy. You don't like religion because of the crusades 900 years ago, okay. Atheists are so pointless.

 

[sandorski]

as
Yet and this is the sad part of the whole thing -- I posted a response to you about the verses in numbers that you asked about.....but the sad part is that you were going to make the accusations that you have made regardless of what I posted.......

let us simplify an answer to rape and slavery and genocide...

God doesnt allow nor does he approve of rape. slavery or genocide!
Atheists love to take the 'stories" out of context due to a lack of understanding.

For example, God sends the israelites to kill the whole town of canaanites.
People take this as genocide.
When in reality, the cannanites were very bad people, they were drunks, acted on beastiality, performed human sacrifice, and they took over the holy land in which they were allowed 400 years to leave.
It was Gods way of judging them by using the israelites to take back their land. he even told them to offer peace and only kill the soldiers who stayed behind.
So it wasnt a genocide but the israelites taking back their land while casting judgement on these very very bad people. you can do research on them and see how bad they were, they were not innocent.

That is just one of many many misunderstandings of how ignorant atheists are when it comes to the bible. they cherry pick the verses, take them out of context, and use it against christians. when it just makes them look foolish.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/slavery_bible.html -- slavery

It really does not matter what is posted concerning anything that has to do with God the Bible, rape, slavery or genocide......

You will still show up with the same foolish responses!!

Have a nice week.....

What a load of rubbish. You really ought to stop reading Apologist nonsense and just read your Bible.

 

[PowerEngineer]

For example, God sends the israelites to kill the whole town of canaanites.
People take this as genocide.
When in reality, the cannanites were very bad people, they were drunks, acted on beastiality, performed human sacrifice, and they took over the holy land in which they were allowed 400 years to leave.
It was Gods way of judging them by using the israelites to take back their land. he even told them to offer peace and only kill the soldiers who stayed behind.
So it wasnt a genocide but the israelites taking back their land while casting judgement on these very very bad people. you can do research on them and see how bad they were, they were not innocent.

That is just one of many many misunderstandings of how ignorant atheists are when it comes to the bible. they cherry pick the verses, take them out of context, and use it against christians. when it just makes them look foolish.

Foolish? Merriam-Webster defines genocide as the deliberate killing of people who belong to a particular racial, political, or cultural group. By your own description of events, the Israelites killed the Canaanites. That act certainly satisfies the definition of genocide.

What you seem to want to believe is that acts of genocide are justified when your god is using his followers as his tool to dispense his justice (certainly can't call it mercy) on "very very bad people". It's this kind of thinking that allows people see themselves as superior (god's chosen), to start seeing all others as less human than themselves, and to justify treating them accordingly (as weeds in the wheat field of the promised land).

In the name of god, you must smite the Canaanites! Who will your god command you to smite next?

 

[OverVolt]

lol

 

[JEDIYoda]

In the name of god, you must smite the Canaanites! Who will your god command you to smite next?

more atheist BS.....ni ce try....but that's the problem with being an atheist....you claim to be so smart because you think you have science on your side...
Yet you know nothing of the Bible...in fact ignorance is a good word...