A case for religion, and against AA.

[Retro Rob]

My god you have a hard time understanding analogies.

I understood his analogy well, I just went a step further to point out how it doesn't lead to the ultimate conclusion he hopes it does.

His analogy makes since in logic, but not in reality...which I wanted to point out.

Edit: In other words, does him making purple unicorns analogous with God means that God doesn't exists in reality?

 

[JD50]

I understood his analogy well, I just went a step further to point out how it doesn't lead to the ultimate conclusion he hopes it does.

His analogy makes since in logic, but not in reality...which I wanted to point out.

Well in that case I'm not sure you even understand what an analogy is.

He was using it to point out the flaw in your logic.

 

[JD50]

Edit: In other words, does him making purple unicorns analogous with God means that God doesn't exists in reality?

It explains how people can use the lack of evidence to go from believing in something to not believing in something, and why that is perfectly logical.

 

[Retro Rob]

He was using it to point out the flaw in your logic.

What "flaw" in what "logic"? He was responding to the post below, where I clarified to Thinclient that he claims there is evidence to the contrary:

Have you been reading the thread, Johnny-come-lately?

Both SMOGZINN and Soulcaugher claimed there is "evidence to the contrary", one of which said he "misued the word evidence" when called out on it, and the other saying the evidence is the lack of evidence.

I simply asked for it, since they claimed there is some. Why are you ignoring that?

He was actually trying strengthen his case of "absence of evidence being evidence of absence" which he said, and I quote:

I may be technically wrong by saying lack of evidence is evidence but it works for me. Imagine if i isolated you in a wooded area for 2000 years and told you "there is a purple unicorn that created these woods and he is here, go find him". And you searched for 2000 years for anything that would lead you to believe a purple unicorn was here.

He wasn't refuting my logic, he was making his case.

Learn to read, then re-read before jumping into the middle of a conversation and taking sides, making yourself out to be an idiot.

 

[Retro Rob]

It explains how people can use the lack of evidence to go from believing in something to not believing in something, and why that is perfectly logical.

You cannot be this dumb...I said it's "logical":

His analogy makes since in logic, but not in reality

...but it doesn't translate to reality.

Read, and re-read.

 

[JD50]

What "flaw" in what "logic"? He was responding to the post below, where I clarified to Thinclient that he claims there is evidence to the contrary:




He was actually trying strengthen his case of "absence of evidence being evidence of absence" which he said, and I quote:



He wasn't refuting my logic, he was making his case.

Learn to read, then re-read before jumping into the middle of a conversation and taking sides, making yourself out to be an idiot.

Soulcougher already explained this to you, I'm not repeating it.

 

[JD50]

You cannot be this dumb...I said it's "logical":



...but it doesn't translate to reality.

Read, and re-read.

It does translate to reality, lack of evidence is one of the reasons why a lot of us Atheists stopped believing. If you haven't found evidence for something in over 2000 years, maybe it's time to move on.

 

[dphantom]

It does translate to reality, lack of evidence is one of the reasons why a lot of us Atheists stopped believing. If you haven't found evidence for something in over 2000 years, maybe it's time to move on.

I guess it may be because those of us who are Believers accept the miracle of Christ's birth and resurrection as a matter of fact. But that does mean that we have to climb above ourselves and realize there is something greater than us - that is faith in a greater power.

Once I opened my heart and soul to that happening, the rest is natural.

 

[moonbogg]

It does translate to reality, lack of evidence is one of the reasons why a lot of us Atheists stopped believing. If you haven't found evidence for something in over 2000 years, maybe it's time to move on.

Some of us pretend that there isn't evidence that contradicts the Christian god, but there is. There isn't evidence that contradicts a general, vague sort of god, but I don't see how such evidence could disprove something so vague. but regarding the story of Christianity, there are obviously very important stories there that have been cleanly disproven, and these stories are central and critical to Christianity actually being true, which it cannot be.
I can't say that there is no god and I have no desire to say such a thing. That would limit my freedom to think by forcing a disbelief. But with regard to Christianity and the Christian god, I can say confidently that it isn't true and that particular god doesn't exist, just as confidently as I can claim knowledge about anything else imaginary, including other ridiculous religions. No need to pretend like Christianity hasn't been debunked.

 

[JD50]

I guess it may be because those of us who are Believers accept the miracle of Christ's birth and resurrection as a matter of fact. But that does mean that we have to climb above ourselves and realize there is something greater than us - that is faith in a greater power.

Once I opened my heart and soul to that happening, the rest is natural.

With no evidence to back it up. And now we've come full circle.

 

[JD50]

Some of us pretend that there isn't evidence that contradicts the Christian god, but there is. There isn't evidence that contradicts a general, vague sort of god, but I don't see how such evidence could disprove something so vague. but regarding the story of Christianity, there are obviously very important stories there that have been cleanly disproven, and these stories are central and critical to Christianity actually being true, which it cannot be.
I can't say that there is no god and I have no desire to say such a thing. That would limit my freedom to think by forcing a disbelief. But with regard to Christianity and the Christian god, I can say confidently that it isn't true and that particular god doesn't exist, just as confidently as I can claim knowledge about anything else imaginary, including other ridiculous religions. No need to pretend like Christianity hasn't been debunked.

I don't disagree with you, I just don't have the time to go back and forth with Rob about that. There's really no need to disprove it when there's no evidence to support it in the first place.

I tried to explain to Rob how a "virgin birth" is impossible without modern medicine. His explanation was that god can do anything... I don't have time for that.

 

[soulcougher73]

Who believes purple unicorns exists, firstly? You have no point, and by extension, no arguement.

The funny thing about your "arguement" is that you're more than willing to examine what you deem are similarties between God and purple unicorns (not being able to see them, test them scientifically etc), but you ignore the obvious differences (no one has ever claimed to believe in purple unicorns, and purple unicorns are completely arbitrary). We call that painting the target around the arrow.

 

[dphantom]

With no evidence to back it up. And now we've come full circle.

I have the evidence I need including historical written and oral records. You won't accept it as it also takes faith in something more than what we are.

 

[JD50]

I have the evidence I need including historical written and oral records. You won't accept it as it also takes faith in something more than what we are.

No, I won't accept it because I require more evidence than 2nd and 3rd hand accounts from ignorant (relative to today) people claiming things that we know are impossible.

 

[Retro Rob]

It does translate to reality, lack of evidence is one of the reasons why a lot of us Atheists stopped believing. If you haven't found evidence for something in over 2000 years, maybe it's time to move on.

There is plenty of evidence. Shoe prints are evdience humans are/have been in the area, creation and the Universe points to a designer being there.

Simple logic and reality at work.

 

[JD50]

There is plenty of evidence. Shoe prints are evdience humans are/have been in the area, creation and the Universe points to a designer being there.

Simple logic and reality at work.

And this is when you start to argue against evolution and completely jump the shark, count me out.

 

[Retro Rob]

And this is when you start to argue against evolution and completely jump the shark, count me out.

Good....that's exactly what I wanted.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I guess it may be because those of us who are Believers accept the miracle of Christ's birth and resurrection as a matter of fact. But that does mean that we have to climb above ourselves and realize there is something greater than us - that is faith in a greater power.

Once I opened my heart and soul to that happening, the rest is natural.

And there lies a big part of the problem. You are taking something that you'd like to be true as fact when clearly there is no evidence to support it. It seems many christians have this issue. How do you explain people of other faiths that also live enriched lives and feel their god has blessed him/her?

You don't have to believe in fairy tales to see that we are indeed part of something much greater than ourselves. If anything, I think being an atheist and realizing what we are as life, this amazing universe we live in actually experiencing itself, and looking at how insignificant and plain our little corner of it is actually is 'climbing above ourselves and realizing there is something greater than us' to a much, much greater extent than any overly human-centric religion (like christianity) could allow us to do.

There is plenty of evidence. Shoe prints are evdience humans are/have been in the area, creation and the Universe points to a designer being there.

Simple logic and reality at work.

What points to a designer exactly?

 

[JD50]

And there lies a big part of the problem. You are taking something that you'd like to be true as fact when clearly there is no evidence to support it. It seems many christians have this issue. How do you explain people of other faiths that also live enriched lives and feel their god has blessed him/her?

You don't have to believe in fairy tales to see that we are indeed part of something much greater than ourselves. If anything, I think being an atheist and realizing what we are as life, this amazing universe we live in actually experiencing itself, and looking at how insignificant and plain our little corner of it is actually is 'climbing above ourselves and realizing there is something greater than us' to a much, much greater extent than any overly human-centric religion (like christianity) could allow us to do.






What points to a designer exactly?

:thumbsup:

 

[JD50]

Good....that's exactly what I wanted.

Your goal was to completely discredit yourself? Ok...

 

[Retro Rob]

Your goal was to completely discredit yourself? Ok...

I thought you were "out"? My goal was to weed-out incredulous fools.

 

[JD50]

I thought you were "out"? My goal was to weed-out incredulous fools.

This isn't P&N

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

There is plenty of evidence. Shoe prints are evdience humans are/have been in the area, creation and the Universe points to a designer being there.

What "creation"?

More importantly, you should answer these questions: is there anything in the universe that is not evidence of God? What would evidence that God does not exist look like?

 

[SlowSpyder]

There is plenty of evidence. Shoe prints are evdience humans are/have been in the area, creation and the Universe points to a designer being there.

Simple logic and reality at work.

Isn't it kind of ironic that this omnipotent god created the universe in one day (though it took three days for the earth I believe... lol) and is very clear that he wants us to worship him and only him is unable to get more than about two out of every seven people on this planet to recognize that he even exists? For an all powerful god who is very jealous and wants us to worship him and only him, it seems odd that he can't even get a simple majority.

Just because a particular brand of crazy is socially acceptable, it is still nothing more than, well.... crazy.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I have the evidence I need including historical written and oral records.

Which "oral records" do you have?

You won't accept it as it also takes faith in something more than what we are.

Evidence that requires a special faith to be persuasive is not evidence.