A/C units

[JulesMaximus]

Does anyone here have any knowledge of A/C units? How much should I expect to pay for this? My house is already plumbed for central air so I just need a compressor installed. I have some over the phone quotes for a little under $3,000 and a little over that for en energy saver model. I know Trane and Carrier are good brands. Is Sears a good place to call for this?

Anything I should watch out for?

 

[DougK62]

I'm curious too.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

You wouldn't need just the compressor, you would need the coils as well that are usually surrounding the compressor.

But anyway, a couple of things:

*If it needs "recharged", it has a leak. Freon does not just go away or dry up
*The compressor is the only (relatively) expensive item, if it goes, it is usually much cheaper to replace the whole unit
*Clean out the coils with a hose (repairmen have chemicals to do it, but a host works for the big stuff) while not getting water on the compressor if there is crap on the ouside of the coils

 

[drnickriviera]

So are you saying you already have central heat only? So they need to run power outside, run freon lines, install the outside unit, and inside unit. I just had a 3 ton outside unit replaced at my rental property. Little over $1000 to replace it with and american standard unit. My a/c guy says it's the same as a trane.

Get the highest SEER rating you can afford. 10 is about as low as you want to go. They go up to around 18. Well I guess it depends on how much you use it.

Rheem is another good brand.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: DeathByAnts
You wouldn't need just the compressor, you would need the coils as well that are usually surrounding the compressor.

But anyway, a couple of things:

*If it needs "recharged", it has a leak. Freon does not just go away or dry up
*The compressor is the only (relatively) expensive item, if it goes, it is usually much cheaper to replace the whole unit
*Clean out the coils with a hose (repairmen have chemicals to do it, but a host works for the big stuff) while not getting water on the compressor if there is crap on the ouside of the coils

I do not have an A/C unit currently. I'm looking to have one installed. The house is 10 years old and it was built plumbed for central air but does not have the compressor unit.

Sears quoted me $3300 with a $300 energy savings rebate and another $100 off. So, $2900 installed and it's a Carrier model. I just want to make sure I don't make a bad decision or pay too much and that I cover all my bases.

Edit-there is a power box installed along with a couple other tubes sticking out the side of my house where the unit will go.

 

[PanzerIV]

Another good brand is Lennox.

 

[flot]

I think they frown on discussing pricing, but there is a really really good a/c forum online. It is at http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/index.php . The only problem is, you might have a hard time finding the actual info you need - but if you have specific questions about specific units, they can shed a lot of light on them.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: flot
I think they frown on discussing pricing, but there is a really really good a/c forum online. It is at http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/index.php . The only problem is, you might have a hard time finding the actual info you need - but if you have specific questions about specific units, they can shed a lot of light on them.

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. Well, I take back the pricing portion of my question then.

Seriously, what possible difference could it make to anyone if I discuss pricing for a home A/C unit? People talk about cars and pricing all the time here.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: flot
I think they frown on discussing pricing, but there is a really really good a/c forum online. It is at http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/index.php . The only problem is, you might have a hard time finding the actual info you need - but if you have specific questions about specific units, they can shed a lot of light on them.

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. Well, I take back the pricing portion of my question then.

Seriously, what possible difference could it make to anyone if I discuss pricing for a home A/C unit? People talk about cars and pricing all the time here.

Because there are HUGE differences in the pricing.

Example:
An average person pays $3000 for a model
A repair tech pays $2100
A corporate customer pays $1500 (if that)

Everyone (especially Carrier) gets different rates.

 

[Ornery]

I got 11 quotes for HVAC installations. The guy who finally got the job told me the ins and outs of the different brands. It basically boiled down to all these companies using the same pool of available parts. Same as with custom built PCs. Once you have the size figured out there's not much more to it. He picked out the parts, which were VERY generic, and easy to replace, as opposed to proprietary parts from specific manufacturers. I wanted a scroll compressor, because I read how much better they were. He said fine, but it would cost X amount of dollars more, and really wasn't worth it. In the end, I just went with his suggestions.

I got two homes outfitted with new furnaces, central AC and 50 gallon hot water tanks, as well as other miscellaneous gas and electric lines run, for about $8,000.00, so $3,000 seems pretty high to me.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: DeathByAnts
You wouldn't need just the compressor, you would need the coils as well that are usually surrounding the compressor.

But anyway, a couple of things:

*If it needs "recharged", it has a leak. Freon does not just go away or dry up
*The compressor is the only (relatively) expensive item, if it goes, it is usually much cheaper to replace the whole unit
*Clean out the coils with a hose (repairmen have chemicals to do it, but a host works for the big stuff) while not getting water on the compressor if there is crap on the ouside of the coils

So are you saying that one should never have to have their AC recharged?

 

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: ATLien247

So are you saying that one should never have to have their AC recharged?

I think he means that if the AC needs recharging it is faulty, and actually needs repair to fix the leak. Recharging will simply buy a few weeks or months of operation.

In Europe, where laws on freons are stricter, it is illegal (punishable by jail time) to recharge an AC system unless it has first been repaired and leak tested to the manufacturer's original specification.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: DeathByAnts
You wouldn't need just the compressor, you would need the coils as well that are usually surrounding the compressor.

But anyway, a couple of things:

*If it needs "recharged", it has a leak. Freon does not just go away or dry up
*The compressor is the only (relatively) expensive item, if it goes, it is usually much cheaper to replace the whole unit
*Clean out the coils with a hose (repairmen have chemicals to do it, but a host works for the big stuff) while not getting water on the compressor if there is crap on the ouside of the coils

So are you saying that one should never have to have their AC recharged?

As the above poster notes, I am not saying that. I am saying that if your repairman insists that he has to come out every 6 months to "recharge" the system, you are getting screwed. If, after 6 months of ownership, the unit needs recharged, make damn sure they find the leak because otherwise you will be stuck paying for a "recharge" the rest of your life.

OTOH, if after 10 years, the system needs filled up again and there is no leak found, it is probably no big deal. Leaks can be too small to detect that let the freon out over a period of years.

 

[flot]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: flot
I think they frown on discussing pricing, but there is a really really good a/c forum online. It is at http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/index.php . The only problem is, you might have a hard time finding the actual info you need - but if you have specific questions about specific units, they can shed a lot of light on them.

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. Well, I take back the pricing portion of my question then.

Seriously, what possible difference could it make to anyone if I discuss pricing for a home A/C unit? People talk about cars and pricing all the time here.

Um, no, sorry - to be more clear: at the forum I pointed you to they frown upon discussing pricing. Here you can talk about A/C prices all you want, you just won't get too many informed answers.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: flot

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: flot
I think they frown on discussing pricing, but there is a really really good a/c forum online. It is at http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/index.php . The only problem is, you might have a hard time finding the actual info you need - but if you have specific questions about specific units, they can shed a lot of light on them.

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. Well, I take back the pricing portion of my question then.

Seriously, what possible difference could it make to anyone if I discuss pricing for a home A/C unit? People talk about cars and pricing all the time here.

Um, no, sorry - to be more clear: at the forum I pointed you to they frown upon discussing pricing. Here you can talk about A/C prices all you want, you just won't get too many informed answers.

More importantly, here at ATOT you will get answers from people who don't know what the hell they are talking about!

 

[dartworth]

If you just need the unit that sits outside, the condenser, $3000 is a pretty high estimate.

I assume you have 220V line running to a disconnect box, and the refrigerant lines sitting outside waiting for the unit. With this assumption the evaporator coil (A coil) is installed on the furance also.

The condenser cost is about $600-$1200, depending on brand. For your installation it just would be a matter of hooking up the electrical and brazing the suction and discharge lines to the unit.

Once the lines are brazed, they will pull a vacuum down on the lines with a suction pump. This will test the lines for leaks and remove an moister in the lines. Once this is complete, the valves to the compressor are opened and you are in business.

You should make sure that you have a themostat with cooling on it and it has 4 wire running to it. You also need 2 wire running from the furnace to the condennser outside.


BTW- I usually charge around 3-4K to install a furnace, A coil, and condenser. Along with removing your old furnace. Not bad side job on the weekends.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: flot

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: flot
I think they frown on discussing pricing, but there is a really really good a/c forum online. It is at http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/index.php . The only problem is, you might have a hard time finding the actual info you need - but if you have specific questions about specific units, they can shed a lot of light on them.

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. Well, I take back the pricing portion of my question then.

Seriously, what possible difference could it make to anyone if I discuss pricing for a home A/C unit? People talk about cars and pricing all the time here.

Um, no, sorry - to be more clear: at the forum I pointed you to they frown upon discussing pricing. Here you can talk about A/C prices all you want, you just won't get too many informed answers.

Oops, my reading comprehension sucks today.

 

I installed my own central A/C two years ago, I went down to my local lumbing supply shop and bought an entire 2.5 ton system for $600, I managed to install it in under a day.

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: Roger
I installed my own central A/C two years ago, I went down to my local lumbing supply shop and bought an entire 2.5 ton system for $600, I managed to install it in under a day.

Dayum your VW Van must be an ice box!

 

HAHA

My house you bafoon !!!!!

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Roger
I installed my own central A/C two years ago, I went down to my local lumbing supply shop and bought an entire 2.5 ton system for $600, I managed to install it in under a day.

I have another installer telling me they can install a freon system for $2795 with a $225 rebate. A puron system installed by this company would be $4100 with a $400 rebate. YIKES!!!

He also said a half ton per 500 sq ft is a good rule of thumb. Based on that I need a 4.5 ton system (which they don't make) so I need a 4 ton or 5 ton system. My house is 2200 sq ft, 2 story with vaulted ceilings.

Edit-The back of the house (where we spend most of our time) faces west so we get all the afternoon sun on the family room, kitchen and master bedroom/bathroom (masterbath has greenhouse windows). Most of the year we will not need to use the A/C but July and August are generally uncomfortably hot and miserable though. During fire season we can get quite a bit of smoke in the air also which does nothing for my breathing or my son's asthma with the windows open.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Roger
I installed my own central A/C two years ago, I went down to my local lumbing supply shop and bought an entire 2.5 ton system for $600, I managed to install it in under a day.

I have another installer telling me they can install a freon system for $2795 with a $225 rebate. A puron system installed by this company would be $4100 with a $400 rebate. YIKES!!!

He also said a half ton per 500 sq ft is a good rule of thumb. Based on that I need a 4.5 ton system (which they don't make) so I need a 4 ton or 5 ton system. My house is 2200 sq ft, 2 story with vaulted ceilings.

Edit-The back of the house (where we spend most of our time) faces west so we get all the afternoon sun on the family room, kitchen and master bedroom/bathroom (masterbath has greenhouse windows). Most of the year we will not need to use the A/C but July and August are generally uncomfortably hot and miserable though. During fire season we can get quite a bit of smoke in the air also which does nothing for my breathing or my son's asthma with the windows open.

Wait a minute, a 5 ton system for a HOUSE?

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Roger
I installed my own central A/C two years ago, I went down to my local lumbing supply shop and bought an entire 2.5 ton system for $600, I managed to install it in under a day.

I have another installer telling me they can install a freon system for $2795 with a $225 rebate. A puron system installed by this company would be $4100 with a $400 rebate. YIKES!!!

He also said a half ton per 500 sq ft is a good rule of thumb. Based on that I need a 4.5 ton system (which they don't make) so I need a 4 ton or 5 ton system. My house is 2200 sq ft, 2 story with vaulted ceilings.

Hmm...sounds like he is over sizing the unit. How big is your furnace?

I'm sure you could get away with a 3 to 3 1/2 ton unit...2200 sq ft is not that big.

 

[Thegonagle]

Definitely get the energy saver if your utility company offers a rebate. The rest of the difference will be made up within a few years in energy costs.

In my area, Xcel Energy is the service provider, and the high-efficiency central-air rebate is between $250 and $350.

They also offer somethhing called the Saver's Switch, which they install for free, and then give you a 15% discount on your electric bill from June through September. The catch is that they're allowed to cut the power to the outdoor unit 50% of the time (15 minutes on, 15 minutes off) on the hottest days of the year. Of course, that can be compensated for by installing a slightly oversized unit that can cool the house more quickly.

See what your local utility offers before you make any final decisoins. It might really pay off in the long run to go with a high-efficiency + oversize unit w/ saver's switch, if you'll be staying in the same house for several years.

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle
Definitely get the energy saver if your utility company offers a rebate. The rest of the difference will be made up within a few years in energy costs.

In my area, Xcel Energy is the service provider, and the high-efficiency central-air rebate is between $250 and $350.

They also offer somethhing called the Saver's Switch, which they install for free, and then give you a 15% discount on your electric bill from June through September. The catch is that they're allowed to cut the power to the outdoor unit 50% of the time (15 minutes on, 15 minutes off) on the hottest days of the year. Of course, that can be compensated for by installing a slightly oversized unit that can cool the house more quickly.

See what your local utility offers before you make any final decisoins. It might really pay off in the long run to go with a high-efficiency + oversize unit w/ saver's switch, if you'll be staying in the same house for several years.

Oversizing is never a good idea...